Travel irregularity report

[1104573]

Dear Sir/Madam,



I am writing to you in regards to an issue that arose on the [Mod Note - Date Removed], on my way back from Market Harbourgh to Burton on Trent when I was approach by an Inspector who stamped my ticket he noticed that my Railcard was a day invalid which had been previously oblivious too. I was very apologetic and he said it was a genuine mistake and I had obviously overseen as it was only a day out of date. I then continued my journey to Burton via derby when another inspector asked for my ticket, I explained the issue that I had with my rail card being out of date apologising once more for the inconvenience but he was more concerned about the appearance of my ticket. He asked why the stamp appeared to be rubbed out accusing me of using an already used ticket this however was not the case, the previous inspector had stamped my ticket which I always rub the excess ink of to ensure it doesn’t transfer into the plastic wallet I keep my tickets within. He would not accept my explanation and went on to accuse me of using this card before. I apologised for the misunderstanding and offered to buy another full ticket from my first destination but he refused my offer and issued me a TIR, I don't know what this is and what it means. How do I pay for the penalty fare? Can you help me or advise me on what to do now?



Thank you for your time

Kind Regards

 

[scottie]

Dear Sir/Madam,



I am writing to you in regards to an issue that arose on the [Mod Note - Date Removed], on my way back from Market Harbourgh to Burton on Trent when I was approach by an Inspector who stamped my ticket he noticed that my Railcard was a day invalid which had been previously oblivious too. I was very apologetic and he said it was a genuine mistake and I had obviously overseen as it was only a day out of date. I then continued my journey to Burton via derby when another inspector asked for my ticket, I explained the issue that I had with my rail card being out of date apologising once more for the inconvenience but he was more concerned about the appearance of my ticket. He asked why the stamp appeared to be rubbed out accusing me of using an already used ticket this however was not the case, the previous inspector had stamped my ticket which I always rub the excess ink of to ensure it doesn’t transfer into the plastic wallet I keep my tickets within. He would not accept my explanation and went on to accuse me of using this card before. I apologised for the misunderstanding and offered to buy another full ticket from my first destination but he refused my offer and issued me a TIR, I don't know what this is and what it means. How do I pay for the penalty fare? Can you help me or advise me on what to do now?



Thank you for your time

Kind Regards

I'd write to the train company involved and explain what has happened in detail. I have had issues with northern with my tickets before and was resolved immediately.

 

[Bayum]

Dear Sir/Madam,



I am writing to you in regards to an issue that arose on the [Mod Note - Date Removed], on my way back from Market Harbourgh to Burton on Trent when I was approach by an Inspector who stamped my ticket he noticed that my Railcard was a day invalid which had been previously oblivious too. I was very apologetic and he said it was a genuine mistake and I had obviously overseen as it was only a day out of date. I then continued my journey to Burton via derby when another inspector asked for my ticket, I explained the issue that I had with my rail card being out of date apologising once more for the inconvenience but he was more concerned about the appearance of my ticket. He asked why the stamp appeared to be rubbed out accusing me of using an already used ticket this however was not the case, the previous inspector had stamped my ticket which I always rub the excess ink of to ensure it doesn’t transfer into the plastic wallet I keep my tickets within. He would not accept my explanation and went on to accuse me of using this card before. I apologised for the misunderstanding and offered to buy another full ticket from my first destination but he refused my offer and issued me a TIR, I don't know what this is and what it means. How do I pay for the penalty fare? Can you help me or advise me on what to do now?



Thank you for your time

Kind Regards

Try to keep the opening sentences short and snappy.

Full stop after 2012, new sentence for the next part. For the main problem, try to be more detailed, but less descriptive and 'fluffy'. At the moment it's a little hard to read into the detail of what is going on as opposed to what happened in detail.

I would appreciate any help or further advice on this matter please, may be a good closing sentence for this sort of letter. Maybe research what a TIR is, then you can mention that you know what it is - but are unsure of what it means for you and where it goes next.

 

[bb21]

Why would you want to pay for another ticket if the one you already hold is valid? Just because the ink rubbed off does not mean you were trying to use the ticket twice.

A Ticket Irregularity Report was issued so that the matter can be investigated in more details by the Train Company.

You cannot pay a Penalty Fare as CrossCountry (the operator between Derby and Burton) does not operate a Penalty Fares scheme.

Has CrossCountry written to you or otherwise been in touch?

Did you provide your name and address to the inspector/guard?

 

[johnnychips]

Why would you want to pay for another ticket if the one you already hold is valid?

Wasn't it a problem that the Railcard was invalid?

 

[yorkie]

Indeed. And the OP continued to travel using that ticket, despite being informed by an inspector that the accompanying Railcard was invalid. Therefore, it was entirely foreseeable that continuing to use that ticket presents a risk. The replacement ticket should have been bought as soon as the mistake was realised.

If the mistake is rectified before travel, an excess to the appropriate non-discounted fare can be charged.

But if the mistake is rectified on-board (when there was opportunity to buy before boarding) then a brand new Anytime ticket (or Penalty Fare if applicable - not applicable on XC) is payable, however if the guard/inspector believes that the passenger is travelling knowing that their ticket is invalid and trying to avoid paying the excess fare, then they can report the matter for investigation instead.

 

[soil]

You should have either bought a new ticket at Derby, or a new railcard.

I am not clear why you would be bothered about the ink transfering to your wallet. It's hardly as if there would be 100ml of ink on there.

Most reasonable people would assume you were rubbing the ink off with the intent to avoid paying a fare either that day, or subsequently.

Unless you have OCD or some other disability that would explain this behaviour, it is reasonable to assume that your intent was to avoid fare(s).

 

[bb21]

Wasn't it a problem that the Railcard was invalid?

True, however I am unsure what has been included in the TIR so cannot possibly comment on whether the member of staff was intending on using his discretion on the Railcard issue, as it was only one day out-of-date. I was solely commenting on the issue of the ink being rubbed off.

Most reasonable people would assume you were rubbing the ink off with the intent to avoid paying a fare either that day, or subsequently.

Unless you have OCD or some other disability that would explain this behaviour, it is reasonable to assume that your intent was to avoid fare(s).

Is speculation really helpful here?

 

[embers25]

To be fair I often leave my ticket out of its wallet for a while after a guard stamps it as otherwise the stamp smudges and becomes unreadable and marks my wallet. The smudge then leads to questions later in the trip (particularly if you break your journey) and if the wallet gets marked getting it off is a real pain and if it won't come off from then on every time I show a ticket I have to remove it from the wallet as it looks stamped due to the plastic being marked. Several times due to smudging I've had to quote that trains running code before the barrier staff finally believe me as that's usually the only bit left readable.
This being said, actually rubbing it to remove the ink off is a bit different and wouldn't do that.

 

[island]

Might I suggest the OP/moderators remove personal information from the thread? This board is widely read and it may result in a negative outcome for the passenger if the information becomes known by the TOC involved.

 

[maniacmartin]

The new ticket stock is quite glossy and ink does take a bit of time to dry. I keep my tickets in my normal wallet with my credit cards etc and always wait a minute or two for the ink to dry before putting it in the wallet or else it smudges. I think this is a better idea than wiping the ink off.

Regarding the railcard problem, could it be argued that the guard on the original train gave permission to travel with the expired railcard and this ticket? Can that permission also apply to the second train? Of course there is no written evidence of this so its not that useful. In this situation I would have renewed the railcard at the station when changing trains.

I don't think rubbing the ink stamps of a ticket is listed anywhere as an offence (although I haven't researched this), but it raises suspicion that you're trying to reuse the ticket.

 

[island]

I agree that you should have renewed the Railcard or purchased a non-discounted ticket at your interchange station.

 

[Monty]

Hi there, and welcome to the forums.

Inspector who stamped my ticket he noticed that my Railcard was a day invalid which had been previously oblivious too. I was very apologetic and he said it was a genuine mistake and I had obviously overseen as it was only a day out of date.

The inspector/guard in question at that point really should have sold a new ticket under condition 2 of the NRCoC. I am somewhat puzzled to why he did not on this occasion.

I then continued my journey to Burton via derby when another inspector asked for my ticket.

I also agree with other posters that you yourself could have purchased a valid ticket at Derby after the issue with your original ticket had been brought to your attention.

I explained the issue that I had with my rail card being out of date apologising once more for the inconvenience but he was more concerned about the appearance of my ticket. He asked why the stamp appeared to be rubbed out accusing me of using an already used ticket this however was not the case, the previous inspector had stamped my ticket which I always rub the excess ink of to ensure it doesn’t transfer into the plastic wallet I keep my tickets within. He would not accept my explanation and went on to accuse me of using this card before.

No offence and don't take this the wrong way, but from an inspectors point of view this a rather an odd explanation. I can't really comment further unless I see the ticket myself. As there is a clear difference from an ink smudge and someone trying to rub it off altogether. Depending on the state of the ticket I can see why the RPI perhaps might be slightly suspicious given your answer.

I apologised for the misunderstanding and offered to buy another full ticket from my first destination but he refused my offer and issued me a TIR, I don't know what this is and what it means.

A Ticket Irregularity Report is what it says, it's a report from an inspector of a ticket irregularity he has come across during the course of his duties. It contains some basic information of the incident and is forwarded on to the prosecutions department for further investigation. I'm not 100% sure how TIRs work as South West Trains RPI/RPAs do not issue them, but you may get some form of correspondence from the TOC (this case Arriva Cross Country) requesting more infomation or for a sum of money. I'm sure someone from a TOC that does them can explain better than I how the process works.

How do I pay for the penalty fare? Can you help me or advise me on what to do now?

There is no penalty fare to pay, as Arriva Cross Country do not issue them. Best advice I can give you is to sit tight and await contact from Arriva, and then come back and we can go from there. I'd be interested to see what they say, if they do mention the out of date railcard and ask for a sum of money i'd suggest you just pay it. But until then I can't say much more!

 

[6Gman]

Shouldn't the first Inspector have made the position absolutely clear?

Along the lines of:

"Your ticket is invalid, because your Railcard is out of date. You will have to book a fresh ticket from Derby"

OR

"Your ticket is invalid (etc), but I accept it was a genuine error and I'll endorse your ticket for you to get home to Burton. But then you must renew your Railcard"

Or

whatever other option he felt appropriate

 

[yorkie]

Shouldn't the first Inspector have made the position absolutely clear?

He may well have done, we can never be sure what conversation took place with the first inspector.

 

[6Gman]

He may well have done, we can never be sure what conversation took place with the first inspector.

Good point Yorkie; perhaps I didn't word it very well. The OP's OP was a little vague as to what the first Inspector said.