Travel over Christmas

[Gaz55]

Grant Shapps urges people NOT to use 'busy' trains at Christmas

An announcement is imminent on proposals for a loosening over the festive season, with Michael Gove due to chair a Cobra meeting with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Grant Shapps today urged Britons not to use trains at Christmas as they will be 'too busy' - as UK ministers meet to thrash out a plan to ease coronavirus rules so family reunions can happen.

An announcement is imminent on proposals for a loosening over the festive season, with Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove due to chair a Cobra meeting with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

But the Transport Secretary has warned that the rail network's 'limitations', with major engineering work and capacity constraints, mean people should avoid using it where possible.

Could this mean operators don't allow people to board trains if they are deemed 'too busy', or they have reached the limit for social distancing. Can the network cope if there is a larger inxflux of people travelling over this window of relaxed restrictions, however many days it runs from?

 

[STINT47]

It's looking increasingly likely that restrictions will be temporarily eased for Christmas and therefore people will want to travel arround the UK to see loved ones.

I'm wondering how the railway system will cope with the increased demand? Of particular concern are those TOCs that have compulsory reservations such as Cross Country. Could we potentially see trains being delayed or cancelled as people who find their trains already 'full' still try to board?

Is there also a possibility of tstaff walking off the job due to social distancing concerns and could the police end up removing people?

The railways have been relatively under used till now and have managed to cope with demand and social distancing. I fear Christmas may lead to problems.

 

[LAX54]

Also remember that a lot of the Network will be closed for between 4, and up to 10 days for Engineerring work .

 

[30907]

Also remember that a lot of the Network will be closed for between 4, and up to 10 days for Engineerring work .

A lot? Looks rather less than usual.
Apart from the major Kings Cross work, the only complete multi day closures I can find are:
sections of the GE main line; Basingstoke to Salisbury; Hatton to Dorridge; Croy to Cowlairs.
The Windsor Lines from Waterloo to Clapham Jn are closed.

 

[squizzler]

I wonder if the short window of travel either side of Christmas will mean that boxing day finally gets a decent service?

 

[py_megapixel]

If the restrictions are eased for Christmas, whether people choose to travel will be an interesting indicator of what approach the majority of the population would prefer during the pandemic as a whole.

You'd expect the people who are the most concerned about the virus not to travel and to continue distancing and shielding, while those who either don't care or are finding themselves mentally unable to cope will choose to travel.

 

[142blue]

It's not time for the boxing day debate again is it

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder if the short window of travel either side of Christmas will mean that boxing day finally gets a decent service?

How would you make that happen at 32 days notice?

It's not time for the boxing day debate again is it

I thought we might actually get to December this year, but Nov 24th is I think the latest it’s been.

 

[marty1977]

I wonder if the short window of travel either side of Christmas will mean that boxing day finally gets a decent service?

As a driver I can happily report that the answer to that certainly at my TOC is no

 

[LAX54]

I wonder if the short window of travel either side of Christmas will mean that boxing day finally gets a decent service?

26th will be the same as previous years, very little

 

[Jamiescott1]

26th will be the same as previous years, very little

Nothing on the chiltern line this year

 

[Bald Rick]

Nothing on the chiltern line this year

That’s because they were run commercially, ie without Government support. To run them this year would need government support.

 

[cuccir]

It's going to be a real problem. I would not be surprsied if the whole network went reservation only for the period, or at least all services on anything approaching a mainline. It would also be sensible to allow people to travel on public transport to start and end their "Christmas Bubble" on the 21st and 28th to spread demand a bit; the legislation could kick in at (say) 6pm on the 21st and end at 11am on the 28th to try and facilitate this a litte.

 

[philosopher]

It's going to be a real problem. I would not be surprsied if the whole network went reservation only for the period, or at least all services on anything approaching a mainline. It would also be sensible to allow people to travel on public transport to start and end their "Christmas Bubble" on the 21st and 28th to spread demand a bit; the legislation could kick in at (say) 6pm on the 21st and end at 11am on the 28th to try and facilitate this a litte.

Those visiting someone in their linked household bubble could be encouraged to travel on the 20th / 21st and 28th / 30th to ease pressure.

The relative lack of commuters compared to a normal year may help ease pressure too.

 

[bramling]

I wonder if the short window of travel either side of Christmas will mean that boxing day finally gets a decent service?

Boxing Day doesn’t just get a decent service by magic, in order to do that people need to work it, and that can’t just be arranged at the drop of a hat.

I suspect that with all the hassle and stress that 2020 has brought, volunteers would be rather thin on the ground unless a pretty attractive monetary offer was on the table.

It’s Christmas for key workers too, remember.

 

[Reliablebeam]

From a personal point of view, I really don't know what to do. I can't drive, am totally reliant on public transport and normally spend just under two weeks with my parents in North Wales - me living in England. This sounds like it's going to be a shambles with large numbers crowding onto public transport at a time of year when there is often work going on and weather related problems. The idea of 'rushing' for a few days of 'permitted' contact and then back onto questionable public transport during that 'lull' between Christmas and New Year - really doesn't appeal. That said I know my folks would get upset if I don't go. A few of my work colleagues have their parents or in-laws in their 'support bubble' but God knows how that works once you bring Wales or Scotland into the equation..

Some foreign colleagues of mine actually reflected that it is easier for them - the rules on international travel are clear, whatever you think of them. If I was being uncharitable, this plan seems based around the needs of professionals with kids and two sets of grandparents to shut up, and one eye on some free Chrimbo childcare...

 

[Ianno87]

From a personal point of view, I really don't know what to do. I can't drive, am totally reliant on public transport and normally spend just under two weeks with my parents in North Wales - me living in England. This sounds like it's going to be a shambles with large numbers crowding onto public transport at a time of year when there is often work going on and weather related problems. The idea of 'rushing' for a few days of 'permitted' contact and then back onto questionable public transport during that 'lull' between Christmas and New Year - really doesn't appeal. That said I know my folks would get upset if I don't go. A few of my work colleagues have their parents or in-laws in their 'support bubble' but God knows how that works once you bring Wales or Scotland into the equation..

Some foreign colleagues of mine actually reflected that it is easier for them - the rules on international travel are clear, whatever you think of them. If I was being uncharitable, this plan seems based around the needs of professionals with kids and two sets of grandparents to shut up, and one eye on some free Chrimbo childcare...

It ends too early from my perspective, and basically makes our normal Christmas impossible (with the in-laws on Christmas day with local Christmas commitments, then may own family until New Year). It's barely worth the effort for, in effect, a day.

I'd have thought at least stretching the window for a couple more days (to the 29th) wouldn't have been a massive ask.

 

[Bantamzen]

It ends too early from my perspective, and basically makes our normal Christmas impossible (with the in-laws on Christmas day with local Christmas commitments, then may own family until New Year). It's barely worth the effort for, in effect, a day.

I'd have thought at least stretching the window for a couple more days (to the 29th) wouldn't have been a massive ask.

Likewise, being reliant on public transport I am going to have to forgo a planned trip to see family just after Christmas. The window is way too small and makes the plans near impossible, especially if Shapp encourages limiting capacity. Bloody great...

 

[LAX54]

A lot? Looks rather less than usual.
Apart from the major Kings Cross work, the only complete multi day closures I can find are:
sections of the GE main line; Basingstoke to Salisbury; Hatton to Dorridge; Croy to Cowlairs.
The Windsor Lines from Waterloo to Clapham Jn are closed.

well most of East Anglia will be shut including I understand Norwich to Lowestoft / Yarmouth

From a personal point of view, I really don't know what to do. I can't drive, am totally reliant on public transport and normally spend just under two weeks with my parents in North Wales - me living in England. This sounds like it's going to be a shambles with large numbers crowding onto public transport at a time of year when there is often work going on and weather related problems. The idea of 'rushing' for a few days of 'permitted' contact and then back onto questionable public transport during that 'lull' between Christmas and New Year - really doesn't appeal. That said I know my folks would get upset if I don't go. A few of my work colleagues have their parents or in-laws in their 'support bubble' but God knows how that works once you bring Wales or Scotland into the equation..

Some foreign colleagues of mine actually reflected that it is easier for them - the rules on international travel are clear, whatever you think of them. If I was being uncharitable, this plan seems based around the needs of professionals with kids and two sets of grandparents to shut up, and one eye on some free Chrimbo childcare...

It would have been much better to say, NO mixing this Christmas, maybe use Easter instead, as we should be in a better place by then !

Boxing Day doesn’t just get a decent service by magic, in order to do that people need to work it, and that can’t just be arranged at the drop of a hat.

I suspect that with all the hassle and stress that 2020 has brought, volunteers would be rather thin on the ground unless a pretty attractive monetary offer was on the table.

It’s Christmas for key workers too, remember.

Of course there always used to be a service on the 26th, but so few used it, it was deemed a waste of time, as everyone went by car ! Remeember many Boxing days watching the trains go past the box, Driver on the front, Guard on the back, and maybe once in a while 3 or 4 people on the train

 

[Reliablebeam]

It ends too early from my perspective, and basically makes our normal Christmas impossible (with the in-laws on Christmas day with local Christmas commitments, then may own family until New Year). It's barely worth the effort for, in effect, a day.

I'd have thought at least stretching the window for a couple more days (to the 29th) wouldn't have been a massive ask.

I suspect the devolved administrations might not have agreed to play ball which probably affects the decision making. As I said this sounds like a shambles in the making..

It would have been much better to say, NO mixing this Christmas, maybe use Easter instead, as we should be in a better place by then !

I find myself agreeing with this. It then gives people the 'excuse' to tell relatives - "not allowed, sorry" - whereas now, if I don't try and travel it will cause upset.

 

[dan5324]

Well we all know the majority of drivers won’t work Boxing Day. They’re too precious for that apparently. Most people will just go by road and national express/mega bus will mop up the excess.

Many people having not driven long distances for many months. What could possibly go wrong

 

[scrapy]

Well we all know the majority of drivers won’t work Boxing Day. They’re too precious for that apparently. Most people will just go by road and national express/mega bus will mop up the excess.

Many people having not driven long distances for many months. What could possibly go wrong

I suspect on TOCs where Sundays are optional overtime that getting workers in on the 27th may require a financial incentive otherwise volunteers may be thin on the ground.

 

[Bald Rick]

I suspect on TOCs where Sundays are optional overtime that getting workers in on the 27th may require a financial incentive otherwise volunteers may be thin on the ground.

Also with the 27th being the last day they can see their families in an extended bubble for a while... I’d suggest the financial incentive would have to be astronomical.

 

[yorkie]

My opinion on Shapps has not changed; I held him in low regard before he said this, and that remains the case now. He should stop trying to lecture people. His views are unforgivable as far as I'm concerned.

It's not time for the boxing day debate again is it

Feel free to make a proposal in the Speculative Ideas section.

 

[marty1977]

Well we all know the majority of drivers won’t work Boxing Day. They’re too precious for that apparently. Most people will just go by road and national express/mega bus will mop up the excess.

Many people having not driven long distances for many months. What could possibly go wrong

Yes us precious drivers that would rather spend time with our loved ones that we haven't seen all year, us precious drivers who have worked all the way through the pandemic many of whom have gone over and above to make sure a service was delivered. Seriously I wish people would think before posting on here. I suspect most of us precious drivers have done considerably more than you during this very difficult year.

 

[Trackman]

I suspect on TOCs where Sundays are optional overtime that getting workers in on the 27th may require a financial incentive otherwise volunteers may be thin on the ground.

Gawd help people in Northern trains land with their festive record.
One Christmas I was stranded at Oxford road.

 

[Mag_seven]

I’d suggest the financial incentive would have to be astronomical.

There isn't any money so I suggest it is not going to happen.

 

[PTR 444]

Depending on how many people buy advance tickets between now and then, I expect they will eventually have to extend the period of travel to cover the whole of 22nd-28th December. Even so, I’m expecting most people who do choose to travel will do so by car anyway for convenience’s sake.

 

[Ianno87]

There isn't any money so I suggest it is not going to happen.

Can TOCs not effectively spend what they like? Effectively the DfT are paying them baseline costs plus a margin. TOCs could choose to take a 1 day 'hit' on that to avoid mass cancellations?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Can TOCs not effectively spend what they like? Effectively the DfT are paying them baseline costs plus a margin. TOCs could choose to take a 1 day 'hit' on that to avoid mass cancellations?

Err... no... the DfT control on the TOC spending is tighter than ever right now!