Travelcard "Ticket Touts"

[Butts]

Has the introduction of Oyster Cards put an end to the "secondary market" that used to exist in the form of largely vagrant vendors that frequented various underground stations hawking "donated" One day Passes.

Having been in London on Sunday and today I didn't see any sign of a practice that used to be widespread (from memory) at one time.

 

[yorkie]

There may be some die-hards, but I've not seen any touts for years!

 

[ainsworth74]

In my experience it tends to be tourists palming them off to people for free (try standing near a ticket machine at Kings Cross St Pancras Underground station anytime after about 5 or 6 on a weekend) to people rather than someone looking to make money these days.

 

[Butts]

There may be some die-hards, but I've not seen any touts for years!

Yes, I suppose I am probably thinking about twenty years ago - what was the going rate ? - about 25% of face value ?
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In my experience it tends to be tourists palming them off to people for free (try standing near a ticket machine at Kings Cross St Pancras Underground station anytime after about 5 or 6 on a weekend) to people rather than someone looking to make money these days.

Has anyone ever been prosecuted for this - buyer or seller ?

 

[howittpie]

Have seen ticket touts at East Croydon a number of times recently and also Victoria.

 

[TEW]

Been asked for used Travelcards by a person I suspected was a tout at Victoria recently. Also had someone come up to me and ask if they could use a ticket which they had just been given by someone else, the ticket was duly disposed of in the bin.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Was asked if I wanted to buy a travelcard at White City this year!

 

[hassaanhc]

There are often some touts at Victoria Coach Station.

 

[Squaddie]

On two separate occasions at Paddington station I've been given an Oyster card by a departing tourist, in one case with over £10 of credit on it. I explained that they might be able to get a refund for the card and the balance if they were to go to the ticket office (although, having read threads on this forum, I'm not sure it's quite that simple any more) but, laden down with luggage and probably eager to get to the airport, they didn't want the bother.

 

[Deerfold]

Has the introduction of Oyster Cards put an end to the "secondary market" that used to exist in the form of largely vagrant vendors that frequented various underground stations hawking "donated" One day Passes.

Having been in London on Sunday and today I didn't see any sign of a practice that used to be widespread (from memory) at one time.

Working in London regularly, I'd say it still happens a little, but far, far less than it did when I visited in the 90s and started working here in 2001.

Whereas it used to be common at mainline stations, it now tends to be at dodgier stations on the network.

Of course those few who are doing it have a far lower hit rate as most people they ask have Oystercards.

On two separate occasions at Paddington station I've been given an Oyster card by a departing tourist, in one case with over £10 of credit on it. I explained that they might be able to get a refund for the card and the balance if they were to go to the ticket office (although, having read threads on this forum, I'm not sure it's quite that simple any more) but, laden down with luggage and probably eager to get to the airport, they didn't want the bother.

And so long as there's no product or discount on the card that's entirely legitimate

 

[Searle]

only one have I been offered a used travelcard at Hertford North, and the person in the cafe even said that it would be valid for use! I don't think it's a very common thing any more

 

[Clip]

Every so often I still see a regualr at the Cross whenever I pop up there. Must have been a few months since I saw him though and he STILL tried to palm one off to me even though I said his name when I said hello

 

[RJ]

There are some regular Travelcard touts at the station I work at - they make more money touting than I do working in the ticket office. They are well known to the RPIs and local police, but they can't be around all the time. Even if they do come, the touts are away on their bikes before the police can catch them. I've seen RPIs pull up people they've witnessed buying from them and confiscating the ticket, but never seen them take any further action.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I see it a lot in Merseyside as well with savers and saveaways. People often leave them in the ticket hoppers of various TVM's as well for free use.

I'm not sure what the position is with taking a valid ticket that has been left for use out of kindness and using it. I presume it's not allowed as ticket transfer etc isn't and I'm sure this comes under it.

I've never actually seen the selling on of travelcards but I have seen people who have finished simply give them to people who are intending to buy them at TVM's. I personally don't see a problem in this but rules are rules ultimately and the railway does lose revenue.

 

[Howardh]

I see it a lot in Merseyside as well with savers and saveaways. People often leave them in the ticket hoppers of various TVM's as well for free use.

I'm not sure what the position is with taking a valid ticket that has been left for use out of kindness and using it. I presume it's not allowed as ticket transfer etc isn't and I'm sure this comes under it.

I've never actually seen the selling on of travelcards but I have seen people who have finished simply give them to people who are intending to buy them at TVM's. I personally don't see a problem in this but rules are rules ultimately and the railway does lose revenue.

If that was unlawful in any way - and i'm sure it isn't?? -then it would also be unlawful for someone to go to a shop/machine and buy one for someone else! There's no indication if it's been used or not when it's handed over!

Can just imagine plain-clothes inspectors patrolling station car parks waiting to pounce on blokes handing over their ticket to their missus

 

[Deerfold]

If that was unlawful in any way - and i'm sure it isn't?? -then it would also be unlawful for someone to go to a shop/machine and buy one for someone else! There's no indication if it's been used or not when it's handed over!

Can just imagine plain-clothes inspectors patrolling station car parks waiting to pounce on blokes handing over their ticket to their missus

It's legal to buy a ticket as an agent for someone else - where you know who that someone is. It's not legal for one person to use a ticket for a while and then pass it on to someone else to use for a while (there are exceptions including PAYG Oyster without a discount and MCards without a discount).

 

[Butts]

If you actually give someone your used Travelcard rather than charging them does this make it morally acceptable ?

A similar thing used to happen with car park tickets in years gone by, when unexpired ones were handed from one motorist to the next. I was the beneficiary and provider in these circumstances on many occasions. The "put your reg no in" has curtailed this practice to a great degree.

 

[Deerfold]

If you actually give someone your used Travelcard rather than charging them does this make it morally acceptable ?

Morally? That's up to you. Legally the offence is the same.

A similar thing used to happen with car park tickets in years gone by, when unexpired ones were handed from one motorist to the next. I was the beneficiary and provider in these circumstances on many occasions. The "put your reg no in" has curtailed this practice to a great degree.

This varies from place to place but is also usually against local bye-laws.

 

[najaB]

If you actually give someone your used Travelcard rather than charging them does this make it morally acceptable ?

Morally, yes. Legally, no.

 

[trentside]

Saw a tout at Cockfosters about a year ago, standing at the top of the exit that leads to the car park. I just ignored him, but others in my party gave him their tickets - can't think there would be thriving business there late afternoon on a Sunday, but obviously he thought it was worth a go.

 

[John @ home]

It's not legal for one person to use a ticket for a while and then pass it on to someone else to use for a while (there are exceptions including PAYG Oyster without a discount and MCards without a discount).

Agreed.

I see it a lot in Merseyside as well with savers and saveaways. ...

I'm not sure what the position is with taking a valid ticket that has been left for use out of kindness and using it. I presume it's not allowed as ticket transfer etc isn't and I'm sure this comes under it.

The position is clear with Merseytravel Saveaway tickets on paper or card. Saveaway Conditions of Use [pdf] state "Tickets are not transferable. You may not pass your ticket on to another person once you have started using it".

Unfortunately the position with Smart Saveaway tickets is far from clear.

About Smart Saveaway

Terms and Conditions - coming soon
Frequently Asked Questions - coming soon

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/Tickets/compare-tickets/Documents/Saveaway_2014.pdf

We don't yet know whether Merseytravel will follow the example of West Yorkshire Metro, where the transferable feature of the undiscounted MCard is advertised on just about every bus shelter in the county.

 

[Butts]

At £8.90 for zones 1-6 off peak it is marvellous value for money in my opinion (as a visitor).

Is it valid on that Emirates cable car thing ?
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Saw a tout at Cockfosters about a year ago, standing at the top of the exit that leads to the car park. I just ignored him, but others in my party gave him their tickets - can't think there would be thriving business there late afternoon on a Sunday, but obviously he thought it was worth a go.

How much did he pay for them ?

 

[Deerfold]

At £8.90 for zones 1-6 off peak it is marvellous value for money in my opinion (as a visitor).

Is it valid on that Emirates cable car thing ?

No - though you get a discount.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you actually give someone your used Travelcard rather than charging them does this make it morally acceptable ?

It depends which side of the fence you're looking at it from. From the train company's point of view you're depriving them of revenue- you're letting someone who would have paid travel for free- so they'd consider it morally unacceptable.

It's legally not acceptable. You're not allowed to transfer a ticket. It doesn't matter if you transfer a ticket for cash or if you give it to them, you're still not allowed to do it.

 

[jon0844]

No - though you get a discount.

Saw some (portrait) posters on the Victoria Line that now 'sells' the cable car as a tourist attraction, mentioning the great views of London.

I wonder how many people are actually making a point of travelling on it for that reason alone? I've been meaning to, but still haven't actually bothered.

 

[Deerfold]

Saw some (portrait) posters on the Victoria Line that now 'sells' the cable car as a tourist attraction, mentioning the great views of London.

I wonder how many people are actually making a point of travelling on it for that reason alone? I've been meaning to, but still haven't actually bothered.

The marketing has certainly changed. The "Full Experience" now gets rather more prominence than the regular user discounted tickets...

 

[Butts]

The marketing has certainly changed. The "Full Experience" now gets rather more prominence than the regular user discounted tickets...

How much does it cost with a Travelcard discount ?

 

[reb0118]

Saw a tout at Cockfosters ...... I just ignored him ......others in my party gave him their tickets.....

How much did he pay for them ?

Good one!

 

[Deerfold]

How much does it cost with a Travelcard discount ?

You pay £3.30 if you have a travelcard or pay with Oyster PAYG instead of £4.40 for a single.

Fares are here:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/fares/emirates-air-line

 

[Tetchytyke]

Saw some (portrait) posters on the Victoria Line that now 'sells' the cable car as a tourist attraction, mentioning the great views of London.

"On your left is Beckton scrapyard, and on your right is the traffic-choked approach to the Blackwall tunnel."

And yes, the Dangleway does now have a tourist commentary running during your trip, but if you ask the staff they'll turn it off for you.

Now's not a bad time to go on the Dangleway, really. The night views are quite impressive and, because no bugger uses it, you'll get a car to yourself.