Travelcards + HS1

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TP

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Hi all, I wonder if you can help? Firstly I have tried using the National Rail website but also Southeastern's website but cannot get a clear answer.

I plan to travel from St Albans to Woolwich Arsenal DLR (but via Stratford International). My planned route would be St Albans to St Pancras, St Pancras to Stratford International (on the HS1), and then walk to the DLR station from Stratford International and then down to woolwich Arsenal DLR.

I also have a network rail card and the planned date of travel woudl be Saturday morning at the beginning of July.

Although I appreciate this is not the most direct (I can go from St Albans to London Bridge and then London Bridge to Woolwich Arsenal). The reason I want to go via Stratford International and DLR route is because I am volunteering at the Olympics and have my 'venue training' at the beginning of July. When I do volunteer going via Stratford International will be the route I am taking so therefore want to do a "trial run" when I have 'venue training' (I'm advised trains from Stratford International DLR to Woolwich Aresenal DLR will be direct train and will not have to change at Canning Town during the olympics).

When I put St Albans to Woolwich Arsenal (no option of putting DLR) it does come up with a one day travel card for £7.90 (I do put Via Stratford International) but it is not clear if this ticket is valid on the HS1.
When I do the same on Southeastern Website (again using via Stratford International) it comes up with no ticket found (or something similar).

Hope all the above makes sense - I just want to know how much it will cost me to get from St Albans to Woolwich Arsenal (using DLR) but also using the HS1. Will I have to get a travelcard into London and then pay separate for the 6min journey from St Pancras to Stratford International? I would have thought I could add it to the travelcard when purchasing it from St Albans.

Many thanks in advance for your advice.
 
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yorkie

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You could get a St Albans - Stratford Int Super Off Peak Day Return for £10.10 and pay separately for the DLR.

Or you could get the Travelcard from St Albans, and pay separately for St Pancras - Stratford Int (£3.75 single or £4.80 for a return).

I'm not sure if a St Albans - Zone U1234 London ticket would be valid or not. It is an appropriate ticket for a DLR destination, and Stratford Int is a recognised interchange, so I can't think of a good reason why it wouldn't be valid.... anyway, if it is, £11.35 would be the fare for that. Perhaps someone familiar with the rules on these tickets can confirm?
 

TP

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Thank you Yorkie and Cuccir. Yes I have been issued with a Volunteers' oyster card which has already been confirmed by Southeastern that this particular oyster card will be valid on HS1.
thing is, for the venue training, prior to the olympics, we cannot use the oyster card but so I know exactly where i am going/platforms etc I specifically want to go this route.

When opening on the link re supplement tickets it states "any permitted route" beyond St Pancras.... St Albans is beyond St Pancras. Shame the National rail website not a bit clearer (normally though I do find it extremely useful).
 

paul1609

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Hi all, I wonder if you can help? Firstly I have tried using the National Rail website but also Southeastern's website but cannot get a clear answer.

I plan to travel from St Albans to Woolwich Arsenal DLR (but via Stratford International). My planned route would be St Albans to St Pancras, St Pancras to Stratford International (on the HS1), and then walk to the DLR station from Stratford International and then down to woolwich Arsenal DLR.

I also have a network rail card and the planned date of travel woudl be Saturday morning at the beginning of July.

Although I appreciate this is not the most direct (I can go from St Albans to London Bridge and then London Bridge to Woolwich Arsenal). The reason I want to go via Stratford International and DLR route is because I am volunteering at the Olympics and have my 'venue training' at the beginning of July. When I do volunteer going via Stratford International will be the route I am taking so therefore want to do a "trial run" when I have 'venue training' (I'm advised trains from Stratford International DLR to Woolwich Aresenal DLR will be direct train and will not have to change at Canning Town during the olympics).

When I put St Albans to Woolwich Arsenal (no option of putting DLR) it does come up with a one day travel card for £7.90 (I do put Via Stratford International) but it is not clear if this ticket is valid on the HS1.
When I do the same on Southeastern Website (again using via Stratford International) it comes up with no ticket found (or something similar).

Hope all the above makes sense - I just want to know how much it will cost me to get from St Albans to Woolwich Arsenal (using DLR) but also using the HS1. Will I have to get a travelcard into London and then pay separate for the 6min journey from St Pancras to Stratford International? I would have thought I could add it to the travelcard when purchasing it from St Albans.

Many thanks in advance for your advice.

Not sure about any special arrangement for the Olympics but this ticket (st albans z 1to 4) would not normally be valid on HS1.



 

yorkie

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Not sure about any special arrangement for the Olympics but this ticket (st albans z 1to 4) would not normally be valid on HS1.
Can you expand on that please? I'm curious to know what the basis for that reasoning is, because I can't think of any reason why a ticket to U1234 wouldn't be valid.

In fact, the more I think about it, a return to Zone U1234 London HAS to be valid.

Let's say my journey is York to Woodford. The ticket would be issued to U1234. The most logical, fastest, and shortest, would be to change at Kings Cross/Pancras and Stratford Int/ Stratford London. I would fully expect, therefore, such a ticket to be valid. How can it not be? It's routed "+Any Permitted", so why would it not be valid on any route that would be appropriate to the journey being made?
 

bb21

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Can you expand on that please? I'm curious to know what the basis for that reasoning is, because I can't think of any reason why a ticket to U1234 wouldn't be valid.

U-zone tickets are simply a zonal add-on to a ticket at an appropriate interchange station. The fact that Stratford International is not within the zones means that a zonal add-on cannot possibly be valid from/to there using it as an interchange.

I'm not sure, but I can certainly see the arguments not permitting travel via Stratford International.
 

Mike395

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As annoying as it is, no tickets from/to London zones are valid from, to or via Stratford Int'l unless it's an outboundary travelcard (from Kent) route +High Speed. I have this in writing from Southeastern.

(That said, I also have in writing from Southeastern that volunteer Oyster cards are not valid on HS1, so conflicting information there it seems :P )
 

yorkie

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But no-one has yet adequately explained why it wouldn't be valid other than to say it's not valid because SET say so.

Another example could be Colchester to Zone U1234 London, why would that not be valid for interchange at Stratford/Stratford Int to change at St Pancras, if that was appropriate to the journey being made?

As for my York - Woodford example journey, I see no reason why the shortest route could not be valid?

And yes SET do give out incorrect information at times, and even if the information is correct, an explanation would be nice!
 

barrykas

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(That said, I also have in writing from Southeastern that volunteer Oyster cards are not valid on HS1, so conflicting information there it seems :P )

That's correct. The staff briefing we've received is that the Volunteer cards have the same validity as a Standard Retail Oyster (either preloaded with a Zone 1-6 Travelcard or up to £90 of PAYG credit), but can't be registered, topped up, or have further products or discounts loaded onto them and will all be hotlisted once the Games end.

The only special Olympic tickets with validity on HS1 (other than those for which HS1 is an ordinarily permitted route) between St Pancras and Stratford International are the Games Day Travelcards. Good innit?
 

hairyhandedfool

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But no-one has yet adequately explained why it wouldn't be valid other than to say it's not valid because SET say so....

In 'The Manual' (FRPP/NFM), fares to LUL/DLR destinations from outside the London zone area are listed as tube/DLR only add-ons to the appropriate National Rail fare (to London Terminals in this case), therefore the only National Rail services they are valid on are 'Interavailable routes'. St Pancras International-Stratford (via HS1) is NOT an 'Interavailable route' and thus is not valid.
 

Mike395

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The only special Olympic tickets with validity on HS1 (other than those for which HS1 is an ordinarily permitted route) between St Pancras and Stratford International are the Games Day Travelcards. Good innit?

Outboundary tickets from the north with destination London Games are also valid I think? :) (ah I suppose that comes under it being an ordinarily permitted route?)
 

barrykas

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Outboundary tickets from the north with destination London Games are also valid I think? :) (ah I suppose that comes under it being an ordinarily permitted route?)

Don't think so...As far as I can tell, "London Games" is a synonym for "London Terminals", and you need to use your Games Day Travelcard to get out to Stratford.

Having looked just now for a random date, putting "Stratford Intl" or "Stratford (for the Games)" as the destination instead of "London Games" for a journey from Sheffield results in a £14 premium on the outward journey, with a fare of £35 instead of £21.

Cheers,

Barry
 

TP

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Separate to my initial enquiry but in answer to other questions posted on this thread - I have it in writing from Southeastern that the volunteer oyster cards ARE valid on HS1 during of the Olympics (in the last week I got written confirmation). Also as a volunteer, and now accepted to buy national rail tickets at the 'discounted rate' on the www.nationalrailgamestravel.co.uk website, and for all the days I'm volunteering I put in St A to Woolwich Arsenal. I've now received the tickets and the destination is shown as "London Games" with ANY PERMITTED. Therefore as I'll have my accreditation to show (and will be in uniform) I imagine these 'paper' tickets will be valid and go through any barrier so perhaps will not even have to show/use my oyster card from St P to Stratford International - the only element may have to be from Stratford INt DLR to Woolwich A DLR.

Based to my original question of whether my one day travelcard travelling from St Albans to Woolwich Arsenal (plus with a network rail card) = £7.90 can be used on HS1 (outside of the olympics, when keying in these details on the nationalrail website, and then drilling down further into the actual trains/transfers to use - the route does state 2 changes and in fact gives the route to use the HS1 train - surely if it wasn't allowed it should not be detailed that you can use the train? (for some reason the first time round it was not showing this, only from St A to London Bridge and then London Bridge to Woolwich A).

Quoted from the Website..

High speed ticket details
The following ticket descriptions entitle you to travel on high speed services:

PLUS HIGH SPEED – this is shown on either a walk up or supplement ticket.
UPGRADE + HS – this is shown on a supplement ticket and must be accompanied by a Southeastern ticket that is not valid on high speed services. Please note Earlybird ticket holders are not eligable for a high speed upgrade.
ANY PERMITTED - in the case of long distance through tickets, i.e. destinations beyond St Pancras.
Please note there is no first class seating on high speed services.
Tickets that are not valid on the high speed route specifically state ‘Not Valid on HS1’, unless a supplement has been purchased.


Surely the bit that I have highlighted - ANY PERMITED - to me - reads that the travelcard would be accepted, unless it states 'not valid on HS1'. right? confused...:|

I have since contacted Southeastern using their webform to ask - if they do happen to come back and say yes, I will print it out and take it with me in case I do get stopped.
 

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If you have a ticket to London Terminals, an outboundary** Travelcard ticket or you hold a Season ticket, you can upgrade to high speed services by paying a supplement in addition to your current ticket.


I think this applies in your case. If your travelcard was to be valid using HS1 then I believe it would have to have this stated on it.
 

bb21

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The pink text does not apply to Travelcards, only point-to-point tickets. The specific instructions relating to Travelcards in The Manual are,

London said:
Note: Travelcards are not valid on Heathrow Express, or on Heathrow Connect services between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow. Only Travelcards routed ‘Plus High Speed’ or ‘Any Permitted + High Speed’ are valid on Southeastern high speed services

I believe you're permitted to travel via Stratford International on a point-to-point ticket as that is the shortest route.
 

34D

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But no-one has yet adequately explained why it wouldn't be valid other than to say it's not valid because SET say so.

Another example could be Colchester to Zone U1234 London, why would that not be valid for interchange at Stratford/Stratford Int to change at St Pancras, if that was appropriate to the journey being made?

As for my York - Woodford example journey, I see no reason why the shortest route could not be valid?

And yes SET do give out incorrect information at times, and even if the information is correct, an explanation would be nice!

I suppose the difference is that Colchester-St Pancras is a valid route for the London Terminals ticket.

Regarding York-Woodford and St Albans to Woolwich, I also can't see a reason why they wouldn't be valid.

Let's imagine a Stevenage-Highgate journey. This is into Kings Cross, walk to St Pancras, train out of St Pancras-Kentish Town and then the northern line*. So if one can go into your terminal and then out of the same terminal** to a suitable NR/LU interchange station then surely headed for Woodford (interchanging at Stratford) is fine too?

* = not as weird as it sounds, given that most high barnet trains go Charing Cross.

** = I'm regarding KX and STP as the same, rightly or wrongly.
 

hairyhandedfool

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....Let's imagine a Stevenage-Highgate journey. This is into Kings Cross, walk to St Pancras, train out of St Pancras-Kentish Town and then the northern line*. So if one can go into your terminal and then out of the same terminal** to a suitable NR/LU interchange station then surely headed for Woodford (interchanging at Stratford) is fine too?

* = not as weird as it sounds, given that most high barnet trains go Charing Cross.

** = I'm regarding KX and STP as the same, rightly or wrongly.

St Pancras-Kentish Town is an 'Interavailable route', St Pancras-Stratford is not.
 

34D

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St Pancras-Kentish Town is an 'Interavailable route', St Pancras-Stratford is not.

Ah - thinking about it, I think every journey on an A to D ticket (where A is the starting station, B is a London Terminal, C is a rail/tube interchange out of B, D is the ultimate destination and an LU station) has B to C being on that inter-available routes list except St Panc to Stratford.

Can anyone suggest something that I've missed?
 
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