• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Travelling during a storm on purpose, hoping to get money back (hypothetical)

Status
Not open for further replies.

jednick

Member
Joined
1 Apr 2013
Messages
240
Location
Worcester
What are the thoughts about this?

A person sees that a storm's on its way this weekend. Based on last weekend's storm they think there's a much higher than average chance that their train will be late or cancelled this weekend.

This person buys a ticket today for travel at the weekend. At the point they buy the ticket, their service is advertised as running. What they're doing is taking a reasonable guess that they'll encounter problems with their train and get their money back with Delay Repay.

There's no guarantees they'll encounter problems with their train; they're just taking advantage of the fact that the chances are much higher than usual.

What would be the legal / moral implications of this?

Could it be said that they're attempting to defraud the railway company?
Or, would it be the case they've done nothing wrong and are totally complying with the contract they have made with the railway company?

Either way, how could anything be proven?
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire
What matters is the timetable at the time of booking.

Delay Repay eligibility is based on that.

It's true that some people may travel in the hope of being delayed, because the enjoy travelling and don't mind being late, but there isn't anything you can do about that.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,531
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
It's true that some people may travel in the hope of being delayed, because the enjoy travelling and don't mind being late, but there isn't anything you can do about that.

I will happily admit that I have done that in the past, though it does come with a risk of total stranding which can cost more than a free trip would have done. It's a side effect of having a system that assumes delay is a problem for everyone.
 

BanburyBlue

Member
Joined
18 May 2015
Messages
717
Why would you do this?

Am I missing something, but surely the point of delay repay is that you get your money back (or a portion of it). Are you saying that the hypothetical person would be travelling anyway? Or has decided to make a spurious journey just for the fun of it, to get their money back on a ticket they wouldn't have bought in the first place?

If you got your money back plus an additional 'inconvenience' fee for example, I could see your point?

Apologies, if I'm totally missing something?
 
Last edited:

leightonbd

Member
Joined
4 Oct 2013
Messages
321
Location
Edinburgh (South Sub)
I suppose there is an equation in which you accept the discomfort and inconvenience of disruption in exchange for a free journey. Say you buy Edinburgh to KGX at the full walkup price. It takes 7 hrs not 4-5. You’re in London with £200 or so in your pocket (though you still have to get back to Edinburgh). And what if the bad weather stays West and you arrive on time.

Doesn’t seem much of a scheme, frankly.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire
Why would you do this?

Am I missing something, but surely the point of delay repay is that you get your money back (or a portion of it). Are you saying that the hypothetical person would be travelling anyway? Or has decided to make a spurious journey just for the fun of it, to get their money back on a ticket they wouldn't have bought in the first placd?

If you got your money back plus an additional 'inconvenience' fee for example, I could see your point?

Apologies, if I'm totally missing something?
Some people enjoy travelling for the fun of it and are on a tight budget and don't mind being delayed and so they would rather make a journey at a time when there is a risk of disruption, on the basis that they would rather experience a delay and get compensation than not be delayed.

There is no way that anyone could attempt to mindread.

If the timetable has already been altered or the passenger warned at the point of purchase against travelling then any compensation would be measured against these.
 

westv

Established Member
Joined
29 Mar 2013
Messages
4,201
I think we all hope for a delay of 30 minutes rather than 29 minutes. :lol:
 

mralexn

Member
Joined
2 Nov 2010
Messages
460
I know for sure when travelling on the Caledonian Sleeper a delay would be most welcome if I don't have anywhere I need to be urgently, full refund a nice lie in, even better when heading north into the Highlands!
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,531
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Why would you do this?

Last weekend I was wanting to return from the Lakes, my original plan was to stay in Lancaster a couple of days after which I ended up doing due to no rail service at all. However, for two reasons I considered coming back on Sunday if it had been possible - one that I could be home in case of any damage to the house, two because it would have been free due to the 50mph limit doubling the journey time (and to be honest with a decent book a 50mph bimble on the WCML would have been pleasant enough).
 

43367

Member
Joined
16 Jan 2014
Messages
87
I am not sure if delay- repay or the compensation packages is applicable If a "do not travel" message is sent out.
 

_toommm_

Established Member
Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
5,843
Location
Yorkshire
I am not sure if delay- repay or the compensation packages is applicable If a "do not travel" message is sent out.

Completely incorrect. Delay repay, for the 90% of TOCs that operate it, have to pay out for a 15/30 minute delay regardless of the reason. A blanket 'Do Not Travel' restriction cannot be used as a get out clause for paying delay repay.
 

Tazi Hupefi

Member
Joined
1 Apr 2018
Messages
823
Location
Nottinghamshire
At the first sign of serious disruption, I upgrade or buy a first class ticket because I know I'll get the money back AND probably have a more comfortable wait / experience throughout the incident.
 

chrish2

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2013
Messages
31
If they know what the amended emergency timetable looks like they can pick a service that know is likely not to run too in the event of serious disruption.
 

peterblue

Member
Joined
25 Jun 2018
Messages
457
Location
Lancashire
It all depends how much time you have and if the time disadvantage is worth the saving. I could see the case for a Edinburgh to London period return, for example, as if you claim a 2hr delay (one way; travel back on an unaffected day) you get your journey free saving £100+.

For smaller journeys I do not think it is worth purposefully inconveniencing yourself.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
At the first sign of serious disruption, I upgrade or buy a first class ticket because I know I'll get the money back AND probably have a more comfortable wait / experience throughout the incident.

Out of interest, how many times have you done that and then not been delayed sufficiently to get your money back?
 

Caaardiff

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2019
Messages
851
For most people, especially weekend travellers, surely they would have booked at least a few days in advance? Therefore not knowing the true extent of the storm.
Very few people would decide a day or two before the storm to make a trip to somewhere.... as in "I know, it's p*ss&ng it down on the weekend, lets go to London for the weekend and get soaked".
Are we talking general public here or just people that like to ride trains?
Delay Repay doesn't really get much benefit for people that plan to take advantage of the system, as there's no compensation as such, just a refund.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
For most people, especially weekend travellers, surely they would have booked at least a few days in advance? Therefore not knowing the true extent of the storm.
Very few people would decide a day or two before the storm to make a trip to somewhere.... as in "I know, it's p*ss&ng it down on the weekend, lets go to London for the weekend and get soaked".
Are we talking general public here or just people that like to ride trains?
Delay Repay doesn't really get much benefit for people that plan to take advantage of the system, as there's no compensation as such, just a refund.

I’m still astounded how many people making long planned trips still buy a ticket at the station immediately before departure. Sure, some of them may be making the trip at very short notice, but some clearly aren’t!
 

mmh

Established Member
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
3,744
I’m still astounded how many people making long planned trips still buy a ticket at the station immediately before departure. Sure, some of them may be making the trip at very short notice, but some clearly aren’t!

But unless I'm buying an advance ticket, why wouldn't I? I'm not going to go to the station to buy a walk up ticket ahead of time unless I'm already going there.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
But unless I'm buying an advance ticket, why wouldn't I? I'm not going to go to the station to buy a walk up ticket ahead of time unless I'm already going there.

To avoid queueing for the ticket. I’d have thought buying it from the comfort of a sofa would be preferable.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,724
But unless I'm buying an advance ticket, why wouldn't I? I'm not going to go to the station to buy a walk up ticket ahead of time unless I'm already going there.
Well, several reasons why it might be very sensible to buy an Off-Peak or Anytime ticket before you travel, rather than at the station on the day of travel:
- you can get a reservation. For a lot of people this is (understandably) very important, especially on a long distance journey, one they are unfamiliar with, or where there is travel at busy times
- you can get an itinerary - this makes Delay Repay claims much easier
- you can get the ticket straight away (if it's available as an eTicket), without having to go anywhere near any railway property. One thing less to worry about, certainly far better than collecting from a machine
 

mmh

Established Member
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
3,744
To avoid queueing for the ticket. I’d have thought buying it from the comfort of a sofa would be preferable.

I suppose everyone's experience varies depending on where they are. Buying a ticket at the time from the window at Llandudno Junction is usually quicker than buying online and collecting (or using the machine on the day) as it's rare for there to be more than nobody or one person in front. Plus, although for all I know it doesn't work that way, I like the idea that my purchase might be helping some statistic somewhere, as I'd like the ticket office to remain open.
 

mmh

Established Member
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
3,744
Reservations is of course an excellent point, thanks.
 

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
8,383
Location
Back office
I'd say get a life.

Only travel if absolutely necessary otherwise you would be creating more, unecessary work for somebody and they wouldn't thank you for it

Some people put a value on travelling for travelling's sake - so what? They're not doing anyone any harm, probably travel on services with spare capacity and spend on incidentals whilst travelling.

Delay repay processing is a fairly formulaic process and there are people who are paid to handle them. Perhaps more ire should be directed towards fare evaders, or those who generate headaches and costs for all concerned by giving out wrong information or rejecting valid tickets.
 
Last edited:

Statto

Established Member
Joined
8 Feb 2011
Messages
3,208
Location
At home or at the pub
I’m still astounded how many people making long planned trips still buy a ticket at the station immediately before departure. Sure, some of them may be making the trip at very short notice, but some clearly aren’t!

I'm one of those people that do such a thing, i sometimes plan a day out in advance but don't buy a ticket until on the day, as i mostly look at the weather before travel, if it's good i'll go out & buy a ticket for the day when i arrive at the station, igf the weather is bad i'll spend my money on something else.
 

plugwash

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2015
Messages
1,549
I’m still astounded how many people making long planned trips still buy a ticket at the station immediately before departure. Sure, some of them may be making the trip at very short notice, but some clearly aren’t!
I generally do, I don't want the stress/wasted time of advance tickets and I don't particularly want to mess around trying to get a refund if I decide not to go ahead with the journey.

Sometimes I even buy my tickets from Stockport/Manchester to more distant places from the guard on the train from my local station to Stockport/Manchester (I have a county card which covers me for travel between my local station and Stockport/Manchester). Unfortunately Northern guards can no longer sell tickets via London because their employer cheaped out on the ticket printer.
 

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
8,383
Location
Back office
I’m still astounded how many people making long planned trips still buy a ticket at the station immediately before departure. Sure, some of them may be making the trip at very short notice, but some clearly aren’t!

For a percentage of the population, once they get burnt once with something they won't want to do it again. Plenty of people who have bought Advance tickets when it wasn't suitable for the flexibility they required, or bought the wrong ticket online, or had difficulties with after service/refunds etc. And some are making journeys that online planners are not set up to help with.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top