Travelling to Europe by train

[philthetube]

I noticed a post in another thread comparing how easy it is to buy plane tickets compared with train, departing the uk for Europe, this may or may not be true but how to do it is not commonly known, personally I would start with Eurostar but as to wether that would be the best way to go or if better value could be found via other agencies I would not have a clue.

I wonder if there would be more travel to the continent done be train if booking was simpler/clearer

 

[30907]

Part of the problem is Eurostar itself: it's the obvious way to go, but the Eurostar website can't handle bookings to anywhere off the ES and Thalys networks except in France and Belgium. (It used to be able to, but even then didn't offer the best combinations of tickets to Germany.)

On a quick check, they show absolutely no interest in promoting travel further afield, nor - despite their claim - from other parts of the UK. Even if they just directed people to https://www.raileurope.com/en which is now owned by SNCF it would be a start!

That means you need to go to the Man in Seat 61 www.seat61.com to find that rather basic information - and for loads of good advice too!

 

[Andrew S]

Agreed, Seat 61 is a great resource.

 

[Lewlew]

The Trainline are pretty good for across Europe too. They used to have a separate app/website called Trainline EU but it's all been merged into one now. I've used them plenty of times.

 

[jamesontheroad]

For any journey to, from or through Germany, I go to bahn.de/en

Although it takes some massaging to find them, Europa Sparpreis tickets are widely available if you buy at least 14 days in advance. I’ve used them many times for international journeys between Sweden and the Netherlands, for example. The DB website also allows you to add stops of up to 24hrs, so you can use a single Sparpreis ticket to travel long distances with overnight stops.

But, as noted above, Eurostar are the problem. They are the obstacle to through ticketing between the UK and destinations beyond NL/BE/FR.

 

[DanielB]

I noticed a post in another thread comparing how easy it is to buy plane tickets compared with train, departing the uk for Europe

It's not only the case from the UK, but even within Europe. Bahn.de is a good one indeed, with loads of options to book your journey, but not everyone would immediately think of visiting the website of a foreign railway company.

When booking from the Netherlands for example, the options via NS International are much more limited compared to DB. But you're stuck to the NS International website should you like to pay from your Dutch bank account.
In contrast: I once had to book a Amsterdam to Munich flight, found the lowest fare to be with the German carrier Lufthansa and could pay using the exclusively Dutch Ideal system on their website. For DB you'd at least need a PayPal-account to pay from your bank account via a detour.
Those differences in easy of payment don't help getting people on trains instead of planes...

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I heard it's easier, faster, and cheaper to fly if going to Europe than going via London.

 

[XAM2175]

For any journey to, from or through Germany, I go to bahn.de/en

Bahn.de is a good one indeed, with loads of options to book your journey, but not everyone would immediately think of visiting the website of a foreign railway company.

Yes, it's my immediate go-to as well - but I agree that somebody starting a journey from the UK is hardly going to think of starting with them. Eurostar really need to do a lot better, either by choice or by pressure of competition.

I heard it's easier, faster, and cheaper to fly if going to Europe than going via London.

It's a bit tough to respond to this without knowing where your hypothetical journey starts.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

It's a bit tough to respond to this without knowing where your hypothetical journey starts.

Areas I've lived in are Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire, Lancashire, Derbyshire, and I often spend time in Yorkshire, never knew anyone suggest Eurostar as a good way to Europe.

 

[XAM2175]

Areas I've lived in are Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire, Lancashire, Derbyshire, and I often spend time in Yorkshire, never knew anyone suggest Eurostar as a good way to Europe.

It might have something to do with the fact that you can fly direct from Manchester to Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, Berlin, Frankfurt, Prague, Munich, Zurich, Geneva, Milan, Rome, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon, and many many more such destinations - so yes, there's little incentive for passengers to deal with changing in London and then potentially having to change again in Brussels or Amsterdam or Paris to get to where they want to be.

I don't think that this really troubles Eurostar, though. They know they can't compete with the airlines on journeys starting more than a short distance outside of London, so they just don't bother to. What we've been saying in this thread (and several more like it earlier) however, is that Eurostar are so unbothered by it that they don't even make any real effort to cater for the people who would like to try to choose the train over flying.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

... I don't think that this really troubles Eurostar, though. They know they can't compete with the airlines on journeys starting more than a short distance outside of London, so they just don't bother to. What we've been saying in this thread (and several more like it earlier) however, is that Eurostar are so unbothered by it that they don't even make any real effort to cater for the people who would like to try to choose the train over flying.

Eurostar are missing out on a small market then, in America the airlines are king, but some still choose to travel across that continent despite the cost and hassle.

 

[OldandRambling]

Eurostar are missing out on a small market then, in America the airlines are king, but some still choose to travel across that continent despite the cost and hassle.

Amtrak trains are a bit of an adventure to cross America, but I love the slow scenic trains there myself. Freight companies own the rails, so the passenger train often take second place. Long distance trains can be many hours late. Although it is time consuming, one can travel from New York all the way across the continent to San Francisco by train, for less than £145 this March. Pretty good value for train ride fans!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Man on seat 61 is the place to go. Once you do your research it's simple. But I agree it shouldn't need research as it doesn't to buy tickets for planes!

I just plan in decent connection times with Eurostar heading to Germany. The extra hour I give myself isn't wasted as it's a holiday not a commute home.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Amtrak trains are a bit of an adventure to cross America, but I love the slow scenic trains there myself. Freight companies own the rails, so the passenger train often take second place. Long distance trains can be many hours late. Although it is time consuming, one can travel from New York all the way across the continent to San Francisco by train, for less than £145 this March. Pretty good value for train ride fans!

Europe would be wise to adopt such long distance routes on a weekly basis, the Orient Express is the only famous route that goes far.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Areas I've lived in are Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire, Lancashire, Derbyshire, and I often spend time in Yorkshire, never knew anyone suggest Eurostar as a good way to Europe.

My friends in Edinburgh would never consider travelling to mainland Europe on anything except Eurostar (or maybe a ferry in some instances).

 

[philthetube]

It makes you wonder if ticket sellers are missing a trick, provide links to Bahn .de and take a slice of commission on sales.

How about it Sticky Nicky

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I heard it's easier, faster, and cheaper to fly if going to Europe than going via London.

Fly-rail is a good combination for much of Europe, both price- and time-wise.
The airlines have most large destinations sewn up, but there are still plenty of regions with poor air access but good train services from the capital/major nodes.
Better still if the destination airport has a rail connection.
Eurostar is good for a rather limited region for daytime travel, especially if you have to reach St Pancras first (and pay peak GB fares to get there).
There's generally nothing to beat the local operator web sites for e-ticketing (with DB being the best), but Trainline comes close these days.

 

[Adlington]

The Trainline are pretty good for across Europe too.

Pretty good?? I tried Stockport-Wien and all I got was the following

Trips to Europe start with a Eurostar from either London St Pancras, Ebbsfleet or Ashford International. For now, you'll need to book your journey to one of these stations first and then buy tickets for your onward journey.

 

[johncrossley]

It's not only the case from the UK, but even within Europe. Bahn.de is a good one indeed, with loads of options to book your journey, but not everyone would immediately think of visiting the website of a foreign railway company.

When booking from the Netherlands for example, the options via NS International are much more limited compared to DB. But you're stuck to the NS International website should you like to pay from your Dutch bank account.
In contrast: I once had to book a Amsterdam to Munich flight, found the lowest fare to be with the German carrier Lufthansa and could pay using the exclusively Dutch Ideal system on their website. For DB you'd at least need a PayPal-account to pay from your bank account via a detour.
Those differences in easy of payment don't help getting people on trains instead of planes...

Can't you use https://www.b-europe.com? They seem to offer a wide range of destinations and accept iDEAL.

 

[yorkie]

It makes you wonder if ticket sellers are missing a trick, provide links to Bahn .de and take a slice of commission on sales.

How about it Sticky Nicky

Sickynicky no longer owns Trainsplit, but I think Raileasy (the new owners) would be better off sticking to domestic travel and leaving European travel to established providers such as Raileurope to be honest.

 

[Alfonso]

Pretty good?? I tried Stockport-Wien and all I got was the following

That is good. It's a clear instruction. You need to buy a ticket from London to Vienna, and another one from wherever you are to London. It's not perfect but it's clear and not rocket science to do.

 

[DanielB]

Can't you use https://www.b-europe.com? They seem to offer a wide range of destinations and accept iDEAL.

I believe NMBS and NS were using the same booking engine (they also share their journey planner) so that shouldn't make a difference. But still, many people wouldn't even consider (or know) they can easily book through a foreign railway company. Or they are limited due to not having a credit card for example.

Not really a problem for me personally, but there will be many others not knowing.

 

[duesselmartin]

Can't you use https://www.b-europe.com? They seem to offer a wide range of destinations and accept iDEAL.

I frequently use them for international journeys where DB fails. It can combine Thalys and ICE. Book to places Europa Spezial cannot get to. Düsseldorf to Brest (F) for example. Not a bad site. Wish it was easier to influence changeover times though.

 

[johnnychips]

That is good. It's a clear instruction. You need to buy a ticket from London to Vienna, and another one from wherever you are to London. It's not perfect but it's clear and not rocket science to do.

So you book your cheap advance ticket from Stockport to London, the train is delayed and you miss your Eurostar, and are dependent on their goodwill to put you on the next train - if there is space - without paying again. To avoid this you need - I think - a ticket from Stockport to London CIV which not many lay people will know about and is apparently a bit of a faff to get.

Eurostar have also stopped direct booking from the regions, which puts me off.

 

[Alfonso]

So you book your cheap advance ticket from Stockport to London, the train is delayed and you miss your Eurostar, and are dependent on their goodwill to put you on the next train - if there is space - without paying again. To avoid this you need - I think - a ticket from Stockport to London CIV which not many lay people will know about and is apparently a bit of a faff to get.

Eurostar have also stopped direct booking from the regions, which puts me off.

Yep, it's not great, and it's worse than it was when you could book through on Eurostar. However if you book your cheap ticket from Stockport to the airport, the train is delayed and you miss your plane, you'll be in exactly the same situation.

 

[philthetube]

The airlines failing in this regard is not an excuse for the trains to do likewise.

There is a real need for someone to provide itineries and tickets for Europe wide travel, taking into account advances etc.

Bearing in mind the size of the whole European market it must be worthwhile. It then just needs all train operators to recognise it and honour tickets following delays etc.

Maybe this is what the EU should be doing instead of disrupting Spain Portugal services.

 

[Spamcan81]

I heard it's easier, faster, and cheaper to fly if going to Europe than going via London.

For some of us it's not just about speed and money. Had holidays in Germany (2018) and France (2019). Used rail both times. Far more enjoyable than the cattle herding that is travel by budget air line.

 

[30907]

The airlines failing in this regard is not an excuse for the trains to do likewise.

There is a real need for someone to provide itineries and tickets for Europe wide travel, taking into account advances etc. Bearing in mind the size of the whole European market it must be worthwhile.

Itineraries are easy enough (once operators have uploaded their services!) with pretty much any journey, bar purely local ones, available on the DB website.
Through/connecting fares, ideally from one point of sale, are more the problem - and your next point even more so:

It then just needs all train operators to recognise it and honour tickets following delays etc.

IIRC this is where the latest EU package got watered down.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Itineraries are easy enough (once operators have uploaded their services!) with pretty much any journey, bar purely local ones, available on the DB website.
Through/connecting fares, ideally from one point of sale, are more the problem - and your next point even more so:

IIRC this is where the latest EU package got watered down.

It used to be the norm, decades back, when all the European rail services were publicly owned rather than competitive private companies, and (mostly) co-operated with one another on through journeys - none of this "not our company, nothing to do with us" if a train was late. It was also easier then because tickets were generally not tied to specific trains or timings (or, often, to specific routes as long as you went in the right general direction); any particular reservations you chose to add (which could be done at pretty much any place at any time) were at a nominal cost - except for things like sleeper reservations, which were more than nominal of course. In such a situation, if a connection was missed, you lost no more than the relatively trivial reservation fee and just re-reserved on a later service; your main travel ticket wasn't affected.

It really ought to be the case, now, that in the case of a delayed connection on an international jounrey, the train company wherever you were stuck had a duty to re-validate your ticket as necessary (as in the case of missed connections within Britain, as well as national connections in some other places I think - I've had that happen when trains were late in both Switzerland and Germany). Of course this system might be easier to establish if you could routinely get through tickets (as you always could years ago) so as to demonstrate that official timetables calculated that the connection was viable; then the train operators could be required by international regulation/agreement that a through booking had to be honoured, even if the original ticket was for a specific train which had already departed.

 

[duesselmartin]

totally agree with that. The problem is competion. We want travel to be dirt cheap. In relation to income, rail travel and travel generally was a lot more expensive than it is now.