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TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

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Rhydgaled

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the X10 and X11 are commercial services.
If the WAG paid First enough I'm sure they'd be willing to promote them as part of Traws, however they'd compete with the rail service which the WAG prefers to buses.
I expect (almost?) everyone prefers rail services to buses, not just WAG.

they suggest brainless bus/rail integration schemes that just turn people off of public transport completely!
Are you suggesting all integration schemes are brainless and if not what do you think is being done wrong with the ones you are refering to?
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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63/X63a are subsidised bus services, the X10 and X11 are commercial services.
If the WAG paid First enough I'm sure they'd be willing to promote them as part of Traws, however they'd compete with the rail service which the WAG prefers to buses.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


If only somebody would actually put this somewhere in the notes for the courses that transport planners go on, or it could be pointed out to councillors before they suggest brainless bus/rail integration schemes that just turn people off of public transport completely!

Carl - I am a transport graduate and I can assure you that the issues of forced transition were well covered on my course. That's why I get annoyed when folk seem to promote it as a default option.

The issue is that people always point to the continent to say "they do it there and it works" without actually putting it in context. Why does it work? Is it because there are massive incentives in doing so and also other factors? Are cars actively discouraged? Are bus and train services subsidised so that fares are artificially low? Does that cost benefit outweigh any time penalties? What level of time penalty is there - 5 mins or 30 mins?

The upshot (to answer Rhydgaled) is that there is not some blanket approach to integration, some binary black and white answer. It is all dependent on circumstances. Where we can, we should make integration easier (e.g. not building outside Cardiff station!) but at the same time, only an idiot would suggest that the best place for Swansea bus station is next to the rail station (in some far flung corner) and not next to the main shopping and commercial areas.

Improve ticketing, improve publicity, make it easier by all means but integration is one of the factors to consider, not the only one.
 

carlberry

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Carl - I am a transport graduate and I can assure you that the issues of forced transition were well covered on my course. That's why I get annoyed when folk seem to promote it as a default option.

I was aware that it was included!! ;) However it quickly gets forgotten (or the planners are told to forget the issue!) when the local councillors have an agenda that means they want to show that they can tick the integration box (ones in Bristol kick off every few weeks about how the bus station should be moved to Temple Meads, ignoring the problem that most people dont want to go there and it's the prime reason why train commuting dosent happen to the extent it does in a comparable place like Cardiff).

Of course the integration box can be ignored if there's loads of money in it like the closure of Cardiff bus station!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I was aware that it was included!! ;) However it quickly gets forgotten (or the planners are told to forget the issue!) when the local councillors have an agenda that means they want to show that they can tick the integration box (ones in Bristol kick off every few weeks about how the bus station should be moved to Temple Meads, ignoring the problem that most people dont want to go there and it's the prime reason why train commuting dosent happen to the extent it does in a comparable place like Cardiff).

Of course the integration box can be ignored if there's loads of money in it like the closure of Cardiff bus station!

The Cardiff one is criminal. As I say, don't follow it slavishly but when you have got an example of integration, why then lose it? All very expedient when they want!
 

WelshBuses93

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The T6 is to have 4 launch events hosted by Bus Users Cymru during the first week of service.
Monday 12th at Swansea (14:00-16:00?).
Tuesday 13th at Ystradgynlais (10:00-12:00) and Brecon Bus Station (14:00-16:00).
Wednesday 14th at Neath (10:00-12:00?)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
New timetable for the TrawsCymru T6. T6A is a short working between Ystradgynlais and Ynyswen Estate.

Monday to Saturday.
http://www.natgroup.co.uk/sites/www.natgroup.co.uk/files/T6 T6A SEPT 2016_2.pdf

Sunday & Bank Holidays.
http://www.natgroup.co.uk/sites/www.natgroup.co.uk/files/T6 Sunday_0.pdf
 

carlberry

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The T6 is to have 4 launch events hosted by Bus Users Cymru during the first week of service.
Monday 12th at Swansea (14:00-16:00?).
Tuesday 13th at Ystradgynlais (10:00-12:00) and Brecon Bus Station (14:00-16:00).
Wednesday 14th at Neath (10:00-12:00?)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
New timetable for the TrawsCymru T6. T6A is a short working between Ystradgynlais and Ynyswen Estate.

Monday to Saturday.
http://www.natgroup.co.uk/sites/www.natgroup.co.uk/files/T6 T6A SEPT 2016_2.pdf

Sunday & Bank Holidays.
http://www.natgroup.co.uk/sites/www.natgroup.co.uk/files/T6 Sunday_0.pdf

That's a crazy level of service, I cant find any previous timetable that's operated at that level! Especially the Sunday where there hasnt been a service for many years, and starting just as autumn is arriving! And a big contrast to Sennybridge-Llandovery which lost it's bus service recently

Yet the WAG couldnt find the money to continue Beacons bus!
 

Dai Corner

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I see the journeys from Brecon 'end' at Ystradgynlais Interchange and those to Swansea 'start' at Ystradgynlais Bus Station (and vice versa in the opposite direction).

Having never been there and finding nothing resembling an interchange or a bus station on Google streetview I am wondering what these locations are. Is it just a way of getting round drivers' hours regulations?
 
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carlberry

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I see the journey's from Brecon 'end' at Ystradgynlais Interchange and those to Swansea 'start' at Ystradgynlais Bus Station.

Having never been there and finding nothing resembling an interchange or a bus station on Google streetview I am wondering what these locations are. Is it just a way of getting round drivers' hours regulations?

I've never found either (or nothing I'd refer to as more than a bus stop!) and the reason for the split is the drivers hours regs.

However the way the timetable is presented, and especially the stupid use of two different terms, is the kind of thing that puts people off using buses. On the examples I've seen from First/Stagecoach it's always made very clear that theres a guaranteed connection and the passenger dosent have to leave the bus.
 

Dai Corner

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I've never found either (or nothing I'd refer to as more than a bus stop!) and the reason for the split is the drivers hours regs.

However the way the timetable is presented, and especially the stupid use of two different terms, is the kind of thing that puts people off using buses. On the examples I've seen from First/Stagecoach it's always made very clear that theres a guaranteed connection and the passenger dosent have to leave the bus.

Agreed. To the prospective passenger unfamiliar with the mysterious world of bus operations it looks as though you have to get off at Interchange and have a couple of minutes to find the Bus Station and catch your connection.

By the way, Traveline Cymru doesn't seem to know about the T6 and sends you via Merthyr and Cardiff on the T4 and X10, taking 3 hrs 9 mins instead of 1hr 46 mins
 

backontrack

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Here are all the TrawsCymru routes:

T1 Aberystwyth-Aberaeron-Lampeter-Carmarthen
(runs every hour)
also serving Llanybydder and Pencader
rail connections at Aberystwyth and Carmarthern


T2 Aberystwyth-Machynlleth-Dolgellau-Porthmadog-Caernarfon-Bangor (roughly every 2 hours)
also serving Ysbyty Bronglais Hospital, Trawsfynydd, Maentwrog, Penrhyndeudraeth, Minffordd and Penygroes
rail connections at Aberystwyth, Machynlleth, Penrhyndeudraeth, Minffordd, Porthmadog and Bangor
steam railway connections at Minffordd and Porthmadog


T3 Wrexham-Llangollen-Corwen-Bala-Dolgellau-Barmouth (up to every hour)
also serving Maelor Hospital Wrexham, Ruabon and Acrefair
rail connections at Wrexham, Ruabon and Barmouth
steam railway connections at Llangollen, Corwen and Bala Lake


T4 Newtown-Llandrindod Wells-Builth Wells-Brecon-Merthyr Tydfil-Pontypridd-Cardiff (up to 7 daily)
also serving Llanbister, Three Cocks and Talgarth
connecting services on routes 43/X43 to Crickhowell, Abergavenny & Talybont-on-Usk
rail connections at Newton, Llandrindod Wells, Builth Wells, Merthyr Tydfil, Pontypridd, Cardiff and Abergavenny


T5 Aberystyth-Aberaeron-New Quay-Aberporth-Cardigan-Fishguard-Haverfordwest (runs every hour)
Aberporth only served roughly every 2 hours
connecting service on route 410 to Goodwick and Fishguard Harbour
rail connections at Aberystwyth, Goodwick and Haverfordwest


T6 Brecon-Ystradgynlais-Neath-Swansea (runs every hour)
also serving Sennybridge, Ynyswen and Swansea University Bay Campus
rail connections at Neath and Swansea
service T6A runs from Ystradgynlais to Ynyswen Estate (limited service)


T9 Cardiff-Cardiff Airport CARDIFF AIRPORT EXPRESS (runs every 20 minutes)
serving Cardiff city centre, Central station, Holiday Inn Express, Premier Inn, Travelodge, Marriott & Cardiff Bay
rail connections at Rhoose Cardiff International Airport, Cardiff Central and Cardiff Bay
 
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Greenback

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I've never found either (or nothing I'd refer to as more than a bus stop!) and the reason for the split is the drivers hours regs.

However the way the timetable is presented, and especially the stupid use of two different terms, is the kind of thing that puts people off using buses. On the examples I've seen from First/Stagecoach it's always made very clear that theres a guaranteed connection and the passenger dosent have to leave the bus.

I agree. there is no interchange at Ystradgynlais, it is just a bus stop, and these silly things do provide a disincentive to bus travel.
 

carlberry

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New timetable for the TrawsCymru T6. T6A is a short working between Ystradgynlais and Ynyswen Estate.

Monday to Saturday.
http://www.natgroup.co.uk/sites/www.natgroup.co.uk/files/T6 T6A SEPT 2016_2.pdf

Sunday & Bank Holidays.
http://www.natgroup.co.uk/sites/www.natgroup.co.uk/files/T6 Sunday_0.pdf

It's a shame that NAT couldn’t have taken a bit of time to proof check the timetable. Other than the Ystradgynlais problem on the M-F timetable they've managed to mis spell Ystradgynlais on the Sunday timetable, several points have arrival and departure times shown whereas they only need departure times, the T6A journeys are coloured but there’s no explanation as to what that means, R is shown as request stop whereas it looks like it actually means on request to driver, D says time at Dan yr Ogof on a timing point at Dan yr Ogof whereas, I suspect, it means this journey diverts into the caves and the others stop on the main road, the P note is shown on a journey terminating at Brecon and there’s an e note that doesn’t actually apply to any journey!
None of these are major (without you’re standing at the Dan yr Ogof caves stop and see your bus fly past), but all make it harder for the casual user to understand. That’s if they haven’t been put off by the wonderful English of ‘All our services buses’ at the top.
 

carlberry

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It's a shame that NAT couldn’t have taken a bit of time to proof check the timetable. Other than the Ystradgynlais problem on the M-F timetable they've managed to mis spell Ystradgynlais on the Sunday timetable, several points have arrival and departure times shown whereas they only need departure times, the T6A journeys are coloured but there’s no explanation as to what that means, R is shown as request stop whereas it looks like it actually means on request to driver, D says time at Dan yr Ogof on a timing point at Dan yr Ogof whereas, I suspect, it means this journey diverts into the caves and the others stop on the main road, the P note is shown on a journey terminating at Brecon and there’s an e note that doesn’t actually apply to any journey!
None of these are major (without you’re standing at the Dan yr Ogof caves stop and see your bus fly past), but all make it harder for the casual user to understand. That’s if they haven’t been put off by the wonderful English of ‘All our services buses’ at the top.

Predictably Traveline manage to surpass even NAT’s efforts with a classic example of computer produced junk!
https://www.traveline.cymru/uploads...wansea_-_Ystradgynlais_-_Brecon-1/0T6NAA1.pdf
According to this the Sundays/Bank holidays timetable dosent extend to Swansea, Ystradgynlais has lost the bus station, but does allow a bus that arrives at 0754 to connect into one leaving at 0710 and the service destination is now ‘Bus station stand E’, it’s up to you to work out that it’s Swansea!
The best bit however is the way that, Northbound the service starts from Ystradgynlais goes to Brecon Interchange where you can then connect into a bus (leaving 40 minutes earlier) from ‘Bus Station stand E’ going past Swansea bay campus to arrive back at Ystradgynlais.
The screen based timetable produces the same result; with the addition of a warning message ‘Disruptions for Ynyswen’ outlining Stagecoach changes in Caerphilly!
This does explain why the journey search software is suggesting people go via Cardiff and Merthyr! And this is one of the more important services!
I’ve given up telling Traveline about errors as a response either takes weeks at which point they say the problem doesn’t exist (as they’ve actually fixed it by them) or I get a standard one about passing it onto the correct department and it never gets fixed.
 

Dai Corner

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Predictably Traveline manage to surpass even NAT’s efforts with a classic example of computer produced junk!
https://www.traveline.cymru/uploads...wansea_-_Ystradgynlais_-_Brecon-1/0T6NAA1.pdf
According to this the Sundays/Bank holidays timetable dosent extend to Swansea, Ystradgynlais has lost the bus station, but does allow a bus that arrives at 0754 to connect into one leaving at 0710 and the service destination is now ‘Bus station stand E’, it’s up to you to work out that it’s Swansea!
The best bit however is the way that, Northbound the service starts from Ystradgynlais goes to Brecon Interchange where you can then connect into a bus (leaving 40 minutes earlier) from ‘Bus Station stand E’ going past Swansea bay campus to arrive back at Ystradgynlais.
The screen based timetable produces the same result; with the addition of a warning message ‘Disruptions for Ynyswen’ outlining Stagecoach changes in Caerphilly!
This does explain why the journey search software is suggesting people go via Cardiff and Merthyr! And this is one of the more important services!
I’ve given up telling Traveline about errors as a response either takes weeks at which point they say the problem doesn’t exist (as they’ve actually fixed it by them) or I get a standard one about passing it onto the correct department and it never gets fixed.

I'm going to email [email protected] to see what they say regarding the confusing timetable their contractor has published and the nonsense from Traveline Cymru.
 

Dai Corner

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Ex G.H.A. Enviro200 YY15FZF now with New Adventure Travel.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/34239514@N07/29411925662/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://pstatic.powys.gov.uk/fileadmin/Docs/Roads/29597_TrawsCymru_T6_Timetable_WEB.pdf

Quite a few mistakes on the timetable.

I'm pleased to see Brecon has regained a main line railway station, and Ystradgnlais now has a time machine such that -2hr connections are possible, even taking into account the time taken to travel from the Interchange to the Bus Station.:D
 

carlberry

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I'm pleased to see Brecon has regained a main line railway station, and Ystradgnlais now has a time machine such that -2hr connections are possible, even taking into account the time taken to travel from the Interchange to the Bus Station.:D

To be fair the bus station in Brecon is very close to the rail station, in terms of location. It's just time that's the problem and Powys appear to have a way of overcoming that issue!

I am impressed that the operator, the local council and Traveline all have different ways of messing up what should be a fairly simple timetable that's introducing an impressive (if unsustainable) level of service to this area.
 

Bwsbro

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PG1079161/115 - NEW ADVENTURE TRAVEL LTD, N.A.T. HOUSE, COASTER PLACE, CARDIFF, CF10 4XZ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Victoria Gardens, Neath and Swansea Bus Station given service number X6 effective from 07-Nov-2016.

PG1079161/116 - NEW ADVENTURE TRAVEL LTD, N.A.T. HOUSE, COASTER PLACE, CARDIFF, CF10 4XZ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Victoria Gardens, Neath and Swansea Bus Station given service number 30 effective from 07-Nov-2016.

PG1079161/118 - NEW ADVENTURE TRAVEL LTD, N.A.T. HOUSE, COASTER PLACE, CARDIFF, CF10 4XZ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Winifred Road, Skewen and Victoria Gardens Neath given service number 41 effective from 07-Nov-2016.

PG1079161/121 - NEW ADVENTURE TRAVEL LTD, N.A.T. HOUSE, COASTER PLACE, CARDIFF, CF10 4XZ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Victoria Gardens, Neath and Swansea Bus Station given service number 59 effective from 07-Nov-2016.
 

DaveHarries

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The T6 has now been added to the Traws Cymru website - and yes, it says Ystradgynlais there as well!

Dave
 

carlberry

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National Express now no longer serves Cross Hands! Leaves me in limbo on Sundays so will need to buy a bike. Disgraceful how this country is going!

You need to move to Defynnog, Crai, Tafarn y Garreg or Craig y Nos in Powys! 5 buses a day on Sundays now and only sheep for neighbours!
 

Dai Corner

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Markdvdman

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Stagecoach must have heard. Tredegar now has two Sunday services to Cardiff, two to Abergavennny and one to Merthyr Tydfil. I suppose it might qualify as the largest town without a useful Sunday bus service?

https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s...bles/Wales/August Changes/Route X4 Web A4.pdf

Well they brag about extending to Tredegar on a Sunday, but have now reduced the 30min service Merthyr To Cardiff to hourly. This country is going down the pan very sad indeed.
 
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