TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

[Welshman]

Have you made earlier requests? Are you a marked man???

The T3 having deckers seemed an odd development but I confess, I'd not done the route since Crosville Wales days and didn't know if it was tied in with schools workings necessitating something larger? Still, it is a long established route and whether it goes to Aber or Barmouth isn't something that exercises the mind.......

......... Where there are real flows of traffic, they're already catered for, so apart from perhaps linking Betws with Bangor for some reason, it is just beyond comprehension.

I find it incredible that money is going to be wasted on something like this, whilst other areas that seem like shoe ins, get overlooked. Such is the way of local democracy!

A while ago, I travelled especially on the T3 to enjoy the upper-deck views afforded by the E400 deckers, which had just been introduced by GHA, and although the services I used were lightly-loaded, I gather they were hired especially to cater for the numbers of pupils from Barmouth to Dolgellau College - the 0825 off Barmouth and 1515 return from Dolgellau were particularly well-filled. I presume once the finance had been sorted after GHA's liquidation, Lloyds inherited these buses for the same reason, although it does seem overkill having I think 3 such buses for two flows per college-day!

Re links between Bangor and Betws, I seem to remember there was a Saturdays-only S6 running three times per day between Bangor Railway Station, Bangor Clock, Bethesda and Betws, but that seems now to have been curtailed to run only between Bethesda and Pen y Pass. Perhaps it is thought that there could be a need to reintroduce a Bangor-Betws service on a daily basis? But I share your wondering why it needs to continue to Oswestry.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A while ago, I travelled especially on the T3 to enjoy the upper-deck views afforded by the E400 deckers, which had just been introduced by GHA, and although the services I used were lightly-loaded, I gather they were hired especially to cater for the numbers of pupils from Barmouth to Dolgellau College - the 0825 off Barmouth and 1515 return from Dolgellau were particularly well-filled. I presume once the finance had been sorted after GHA's liquidation, Lloyds inherited these buses for the same reason, although it does seem overkill having I think 3 such buses for two flows per college-day!

Re links between Bangor and Betws, I seem to remember there was a Saturdays-only S6 running three times per day between Bangor Railway Station, Bangor Clock, Bethesda and Betws, but that seems now to have been curtailed to run only between Bethesda and Pen y Pass. Perhaps it is thought that there could be a need to reintroduce a Bangor-Betws service on a daily basis? But I share your wondering why it needs to continue to Oswestry.

You remember the S6 correctly - operated by Silver Star!

Can’t see any logic behind this when other routes can do with enhancements or to restore the Brecon to Llandovery service!

 

[carlberry]

Re links between Bangor and Betws, I seem to remember there was a Saturdays-only S6 running three times per day between Bangor Railway Station, Bangor Clock, Bethesda and Betws, but that seems now to have been curtailed to run only between Bethesda and Pen y Pass. Perhaps it is thought that there could be a need to reintroduce a Bangor-Betws service on a daily basis? But I share your wondering why it needs to continue to Oswestry.

The S6 (Snowdon Sherpa) service was withdrawn completely last year then reinstated at the last minute but with next to no publicity. It's running this year however it would be nice to have a more predictable service up to Ogwen Cottage however, in truth, I photograph it twice as often as I use it!

 

[johntrawscymru]

Have you made earlier requests? Are you a marked man???

The T3 having deckers seemed an odd development but I confess, I'd not done the route since Crosville Wales days and didn't know if it was tied in with schools workings necessitating something larger? Still, it is a long established route and whether it goes to Aber or Barmouth isn't something that exercises the mind.

However, my earlier point (that has been used by the Daily Post and attributed to someone else - a "real" person) is this Bangor to Oswestry flight of fancy. You've got one section that is more than adequately served (Bangor to Bethesda) before you head off over the Nant Ffrancon with no people (except climbers) until you reach Capel. Even then, there's precious few houses till you reach Betws and then you're out into a real wilderness by Pentrefoelas - sparsely populated doesn't cover it. By the time you reach relative civilisation, you're duplicating the T3 through Corwen and Llangollen. Where there are real flows of traffic, they're already catered for, so apart from perhaps linking Betws with Bangor for some reason, it is just beyond comprehension.

I find it incredible that money is going to be wasted on something like this, whilst other areas that seem like shoe ins, get overlooked. Such is the way of local democracy!

You have hit the nail on the head . I am a marked man , I complained in January 2016 about the last T2 of the day from Bangor arriving at 18.40 in Aberystwyth and not connecting with the last 18.40 T! departure to Carmarthen which then connects with the last train to Cardiff in Carmarthen. A simple problem you would think . Two years after the complaint in january 2018 the WAG solved the problem by changing the the T2 arrival time from 18.40 to 18.50 by using an unnecessary wait in Macynleth for 5 minutes and a 5 minute diversion off the A487 near Aberystwyth through the village of Comins Coch and the Aberystwyth housing estate. I am now committed to investigating the ridiculous way the Trawscymru Network is being run. The Daily Post thing was their mistake - I am copying all my correspondence with the WAG to the media and I quoted your comments to the WAG. The man to contact with any comments on Trawscymru routes is Professor Stuart Cole ([email protected])
He is the consultant employed by the WAG on Trawscymru route development and is Chairman of the Welsh Government Transport Strategy Group . You could try the Trawscymru Network Manager ([email protected]) but he makes Stanley Unwin sound like a very intelligent man.
The issue of Aberystwyth versus Barmouth is the population (2000 Barmouth and 20000 Aberystwyth) . The pubs in Aberystwyth are usually full of students with scouse accents complaining about how difficult it is to get back home. I have been to Barmouth a few times but did not notice queues of people waiting to catch buses to Dolgellau/Wrexham or anywhere else . If the T3 route was designed based on getting college students the 9 miles from Barmouth to Dolgellau then the WAG need to employ a different "guru" as a consultant who recognises that a 9 mile school run does not require a long distance , strategic bus service.
Who mentioned local democracy.? My Local Council are so frightened of not receiving their Local Transport grants that they are prepared to sit back and be lied to by the WAG. Eventually the WAG may decide that their consultants are out of touch and they should listen to the real people on this forum. Keep on ferreting - stronger together than on your own.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

You have hit the nail on the head . I am a marked man , I complained in January 2016 about the last T2 of the day from Bangor arriving at 18.40 in Aberystwyth and not connecting with the last 18.40 T! departure to Carmarthen which then connects with the last train to Cardiff in Carmarthen. A simple problem you would think . Two years after the complaint in january 2018 the WAG solved the problem by changing the the T2 arrival time from 18.40 to 18.50 by using an unnecessary wait in Macynleth for 5 minutes and a 5 minute diversion off the A487 near Aberystwyth through the village of Comins Coch and the Aberystwyth housing estate. I am now committed to investigating the ridiculous way the Trawscymru Network is being run. The Daily Post thing was their mistake - I am copying all my correspondence with the WAG to the media and I quoted your comments to the WAG. The man to contact with any comments on Trawscymru routes is Professor Stuart Cole ([email protected])
He is the consultant employed by the WAG on Trawscymru route development and is Chairman of the Welsh Government Transport Strategy Group . You could try the Trawscymru Network Manager ([email protected]) but he makes Stanley Unwin sound like a very intelligent man.
The issue of Aberystwyth versus Barmouth is the population (2000 Barmouth and 20000 Aberystwyth) . The pubs in Aberystwyth are usually full of students with scouse accents complaining about how difficult it is to get back home. I have been to Barmouth a few times but did not notice queues of people waiting to catch buses to Dolgellau/Wrexham or anywhere else . If the T3 route was designed based on getting college students the 9 miles from Barmouth to Dolgellau then the WAG need to employ a different "guru" as a consultant who recognises that a 9 mile school run does not require a long distance , strategic bus service.
Who mentioned local democracy.? My Local Council are so frightened of not receiving their Local Transport grants that they are prepared to sit back and be lied to by the WAG. Eventually the WAG may decide that their consultants are out of touch and they should listen to the real people on this forum. Keep on ferreting - stronger together than on your own.

Except you are missing a couple of points:

1 Barmouth needs a bus service just like any other place of similar size/ location hence why the T3 goes there
2. If the T3 was diverted at Dolgellau to run to Aberystwyth there would be gross over-provision of services between Dolgellau- Machynllyth-Aberystwyth
3. you complain that the network makes it difficult to travel Aber to "scouseland" yet surely the 5 minute connection times at Dolgellau which you complain stops the T2 connecting with the T1 are so that it connects with the T3 at Dolgellau allowing those same students to get to their homes with just a change of bus at Dolgellau and then onto a train at Wrexham... hardly a "difficult" journey.

No, it seems to me the only reason why you don't like the T2/ T3 arrangement is because you can't make one particular connection at Aberystwyth.

Whilst I don't by any means think the network is perfect, I certainly can't see the justification for recasting the whole network just because you can't make one particular journey!

 

[Dai Corner]

To be honest, I feel the number of passengers wishing to leave Bangor mid afternoon, take a 3 1/2hr bus journey immediately followed by a 2 hr one then a 2 hr train journey to arrive in Cardiff late in the evening is likely to be limited.

They could arrive three hours earlier by through train. Trawscymru is supposed to complement the railway network not compete with it.

 

[backontrack]

3. you complain that the network makes it difficult to travel Aber to "scouseland" yet...

Perhaps the solution here is just to run one of the Cambrian services per day in each direction to Crewe/Chester and Liverpool rather than Birmingham?

 

[Dai Corner]

Perhaps the solution here is just to run one of the Cambrian services per day in each direction to Crewe/Chester and Liverpool rather than Birmingham?

There will be Cardiff-Liverpool trains from December 2022, so Cambrian Line - Liverpool will require just one change at Shrewsbury. Hopefully the connections will be good.

We're getting off-topic for the thread though.

 

[johntrawscymru]

Except you are missing a couple of points:

1 Barmouth needs a bus service just like any other place of similar size/ location hence why the T3 goes there
2. If the T3 was diverted at Dolgellau to run to Aberystwyth there would be gross over-provision of services between Dolgellau- Machynllyth-Aberystwyth
3. you complain that the network makes it difficult to travel Aber to "scouseland" yet surely the 5 minute connection times at Dolgellau which you complain stops the T2 connecting with the T1 are so that it connects with the T3 at Dolgellau allowing those same students to get to their homes with just a change of bus at Dolgellau and then onto a train at Wrexham... hardly a "difficult" journey.

No, it seems to me the only reason why you don't like the T2/ T3 arrangement is because you can't make one particular connection at Aberystwyth.

Whilst I don't by any means think the network is perfect, I certainly can't see the justification for recasting the whole network just because you can't make one particular journey!

Appreciate your point regarding the train to Cardiff which would cost you £90.60 one way . The Trawscymru T2/T1 is Bangor to Carmarthen . Bus is the only real option. By train you would go Bangor to Crewe , Cardiff and Carmarthen and it would still cost you £90.60 and would take between 6 and 7 ½ hours. That is why the Winckler review, which covered lots of stakeholders from across Wales , concluded T2/T1 was a strategic route and not T3 Wrexham to Barmouth. and recommended the T3 should run from Wrexham to Aberystwyth and connect with the T1 to Carmarthen. That was why the Welsh Government Transport strategy still has a key action to improve reliability and journey times on the T2/T1 route . The WAG ignored Winckler and their own Transport strategy and introduced the T3 to Barmouth in 2014 and at the same time introduced T2 waits in Dolgellau for the T3 service from Wrexham. In January 2016 the WAG were even contravening the Road Traffic Regulations and after a timetable wait of 10 minutes were delaying the T2 departures a further 10 minutes beyond their advertised departure time . The Road Traffic Commissioner forced them to reduce delayed departures to 5 minutes. The current T2 wait in Dolgellau is 15 minutes not the 5 you quote. The reason they need the 20 minute T2 waits is that the T3 journey time between Dolgellau and Wrexham is 2 hrs 10 mins so the return journey is 4 hrs 20 minutes if you are lucky. So the T2 services in Dolgellau which work on an hourly/2 hourly timetable will always have to wait around 20 minutes. The T3 from Wrexham frequently does not arrive in Dolgellau and the 15 minute T2 waits have been pointless and have destroyed connections further down the line in Aberystwyth in both North and South directions. It is somewhat frustrating to sit on a T2 in Dolgellau for 20 minutes to wait for a T3 from Wrexham which either does not turn up or arrives with zero passengers wishing to use the T2 services. The T3 passengers from Wrexham have also noticed that the connections in Dolgellau frequently do not work and therefore do not attempt to make connections with the T2 in Dolgellau. This could all be avoided by a direct route of the T3 between Llangollen and Wrexham instead of using a route where there is a duplicate Arriva service every 30 mins.

The comments I made re the 18.40 T2/T1 situation in Aberystwyth were an explanation of how I came to take an interest in the magical Trawscymru network and how the WAG seem to find a way after 2 years deliberation to make a problem worse instead of improving things. I have never suggested the T3 should be diverted at Dolgellau to Aberystwyth. The recommendation of Winkler was Wrexham to Aberystwyth direct . This would (a) Reduce the Journey time Wrexham to Aberystwyth (b) Stop the 15 minute delays to the T2 in Dolgellau (c) Because of (b) improve T2/T1 connections in Aberystwyth (d) Increase the number of passengers using the service by tapping into the student population in Aberystwyth and the towns of Newtown ,Welshpool , Oswestry and (e) allow connections between T3 from Wrexham in Aberystwyth with T1(Carmarthen) and T5(Cardigan).

Ken finally commissioned a review of Wrexham to Aberystwyth on 14/11/2017 but unfortunately it turned out to be a review of Wrexham to Barmouth.

I appreciate that Barmouth, Chirk, Oswestry etc require bus services but none of these places are strategic locations and do not warrant a strategic service being routed to them. The WAG are now talking about connections between the T10 and the T3 ie 2 non strategic services waiting for each other.somewhere in Ken Skates country (Corwen?)

From your comments I wonder if you are a WAG employee or Ken Skates in disguise as every time I ask questions of the WAG on anything to do with Trawscymru I get the same statement that you put forward that I am only interested in making one particular journey. . You are quite correct , the network does not need recasting , but you can hardly defend the T3 route which has been unchanged for 53 years, carries hardly any passengers, and has poor connectivity in Dolgellau and a disasterous effect on connectivity of most Trawscymru services further South. .

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To be honest, I feel the number of passengers wishing to leave Bangor mid afternoon, take a 3 1/2hr bus journey immediately followed by a 2 hr one then a 2 hr train journey to arrive in Cardiff late in the evening is likely to be limited.

They could arrive three hours earlier by through train. Trawscymru is supposed to complement the railway network not compete with it.

Indeed - it probably is a limited market when you can get three trains and save a lot of time.

The S6 (Snowdon Sherpa) service was withdrawn completely last year then reinstated at the last minute but with next to no publicity. It's running this year however it would be nice to have a more predictable service up to Ogwen Cottage however, in truth, I photograph it twice as often as I use it!

"Nice to have" but a bit of a limited market for those wanting to wander around the lake or clamber up Tryfan!! A percentage of those won't need returns as they have to winched off by the air sea rescue.

This Bangor to Oswestry route is almost like the product of one of those awkward schoolboys who sits in their bedroom concocting bus routes in places they don't know, look at where there's a "gap" in provision and suggest putting a service in!

 

[transmanche]

From your comments I wonder if you are a WAG employee

There is no such thing as a 'WAG employee' because there is no such thing as 'WAG' (Welsh Assembly Government). It was renamed four years ago.

 

[carlberry]

You are quite correct , the network does not need recasting , but you can hardly defend the T3 route which has been unchanged for 53 years, carries hardly any passengers, and has poor connectivity in Dolgellau and a disastrous effect on connectivity of most Trawscymru services further South. .

The problem is the T3 is a rail replacement service that became a useful local bus service. As the WAG sees TrawsCymru as complementing the rail network then the T3 is perfect as it connects rail stations at both ends. Sending it to Aberystwyth means it duplicates part of Traws and competes with rail so, I suspect, it would only get as far as Machynlleth.

 

[carlberry]

A percentage of those won't need returns as they have to winched off by the air sea rescue.

A vital part of the transport system and only slightly more expensive per person than the WAG's inter Wales air service!

 

[backontrack]

This Bangor to Oswestry route is almost like the product of one of those awkward schoolboys who sits in their bedroom concocting bus routes in places they don't know, look at where there's a "gap" in provision and suggest putting a service in!

This route is too preposterous even for that.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

From your comments I wonder if you are a WAG employee or Ken Skates in disguise as every time I ask questions of the WAG on anything to do with Trawscymru I get the same statement that you put forward that I am only interested in making one particular journey. . You are quite correct , the network does not need recasting , but you can hardly defend the T3 route which has been unchanged for 53 years, carries hardly any passengers, and has poor connectivity in Dolgellau and a disasterous effect on connectivity of most Trawscymru services further South. .

If you regularly input onto this thread then you will realise that I am no fan of the TrawsCymru team, it's plans, or in fact anything TrawsCymru...

The network was originally put together at the behest of Edwina "I know I'm right" Hart... which says everything that needs to be said about the network!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If you regularly input onto this thread then you will realise that I am no fan of the TrawsCymru team, it's plans, or in fact anything TrawsCymru...

The network was originally put together at the behest of Edwina "I know I'm right" Hart... which says everything that needs to be said about the network!

To be honest, and aside from your personal issues with the T1 vs 701 etc, it's really only the T9 that really stuck out as being a really stupid, politically motivated piece of bunkum until this latest round. The routes have generally been a case of linking services together, improving the odd frequency and investment in new vehicles (as per the old bus shell DPs of the 1960s/1970s). For instance, the T1 (X40/41) is essentially a combo of the old s50/201, and T3 is just the old d94 It was only the T4 (704) being the old X43 south of Brecon that gained some real improvements with the north portion to Newtown.

However, the T9 is just a sop to disguise the mismanagement of Cardiff Airport - passenger figures are rising now but 2017 was still only 2/3 of the passenger figures of ten years earlier and now there's the delights of Capel to Chirk - the mind boggles!

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

To be honest, and aside from your personal issues with the T1 vs 701 etc, it's really only the T9 that really stuck out as being a really stupid, politically motivated piece of bunkum until this latest round. The routes have generally been a case of linking services together, improving the odd frequency and investment in new vehicles (as per the old bus shell DPs of the 1960s/1970s). For instance, the T1 (X40/41) is essentially a combo of the old s50/201, and T3 is just the old d94 It was only the T4 (704) being the old X43 south of Brecon that gained some real improvements with the north portion to Newtown.

However, the T9 is just a sop to disguise the mismanagement of Cardiff Airport - passenger figures are rising now but 2017 was still only 2/3 of the passenger figures of ten years earlier and now there's the delights of Capel to Chirk - the mind boggles!

I fully agree with you, but I still stand by my statement that any problems that TrawsCymru has comes from the fact that it was introduced under Edwina Hart's watch... after all she was known for commissioning reports and then making up her mind before the reports had been completed {M4 relief road anyone?}

I suppose I just took umbrage at johntrawscymru suggesting I work for TrawsCymru and being an apologist for them when the evidence on this thread quite clearly points to the contrary!

 

[johntrawscymru]

I fully agree with you, but I still stand by my statement that any problems that TrawsCymru has comes from the fact that it was introduced under Edwina Hart's watch... after all she was known for commissioning reports and then making up her mind before the reports had been completed {M4 relief road anyone?}

I suppose I just took umbrage at johntrawscymru suggesting I work for TrawsCymru and being an apologist for them when the evidence on this thread quite clearly points to the contrary!

Nothing personal - I just took umbrage at the ""you can't make one particular connection at Aberystwyth."". Not sure about Edwina Hart. The T3 Wrexham to Aberystwyth feasibility study was ignored on her watch but in my last 2 years of dealing with the WAG officials it would not surprise me if she was kept in the dark re T3 Wrexham to Aberystwyth. In 2016 the Trawscymru Network Manager insisted the 10.00 am T2 departure could not be changed to 10.05 in Aberystwyth to give better connections with the Northbound T5 despite the fact that the T2 was stopping in a layby 3 miles outside Aberystwyth for 5 minutes to get back on timetable. Edwina Hart overruled the Trawscymru Network Manager and authorised the change. However KS has allowed him to change it back. At least Edwina Hart commissioned reports but the current lot do not bother doing that - ridiculous routes and no evaluation or consultation. KS commissioned a review of Wrexham to Aberystwyth and then ignored it. It looks like the Trawscymru Network Manager (based in Llandudno) is organising Trawscymru routes so that he can meet up with KS and his mates for a pint over in Wrexham/South Clwyd.

 

[DaveHarries]

I am a fan of the TC network because the area covered by my place of work takes me into parts of Wales from which getting back would be otherwise impossible without a far more complex journey. A couple of weeks back I got sent to Aberaeron: without the T1 to get me to Carmarthen I would have got home to Bristol considerably later than 00:30 due to the complex and no doubt circuitous route I would otherwise have had to take.

Services T1, T4 and T5 make my working life considerably easier.

Dave

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I am a fan of the TC network because the area covered by my place of work takes me into parts of Wales from which getting back would be otherwise impossible without a far more complex journey. A couple of weeks back I got sent to Aberaeron: without the T1 to get me to Carmarthen I would have got home to Bristol considerably later than 00:30 due to the complex and no doubt circuitous route I would otherwise have had to take.

Services T1, T4 and T5 make my working life considerably easier.

Dave

actually, your journeys would be no different as the TrawsCymru network is basically the same network that was there before, just renumbered and rebranded with the added fun of political interferance.

 

[DaveHarries]

actually, your journeys would be no different as the TrawsCymru network is basically the same network that was there before, just renumbered and rebranded with the added fun of political interferance.

And with the same frequency? I don't know how frequent the Aberystwyth - Carmarthen service used to be. Or its timetable.

Dave

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

And with the same frequency? I don't know how frequent the Aberystwyth - Carmarthen service used to be. Or its timetable.

Dave

T1 was the X40... both hrly
T2 was the X32... both 2 hrly
T3 was the X94... both hrly
T4 I cannot comment on
T5 was X50/550... both hrly
T6 was X62/X63... both hrly

Surprisingly at one point Arriva took out one of the village loops to speed up the X40. After they pulled out First one the contract for the T1 following the same route... and slowed it down so much that it takes just as long on the new shortened route than it used to do on the original X40 route!

 

[carlberry]

T1 was the X40... both hrly
T2 was the X32... both 2 hrly
T3 was the X94... both hrly
T4 I cannot comment on
T5 was X50/550... both hrly
T6 was X62/X63... both hrly

Surprisingly at one point Arriva took out one of the village loops to speed up the X40. After they pulled out First one the contract for the T1 following the same route... and slowed it down so much that it takes just as long on the new shortened route than it used to do on the original X40 route!

I believe the part of the T4 above Brecon is better than it used to be, south is about the same at 2 hourly.
The T6 (Above Ystradglynlais) has never been hourly before.
Whilst First run the T1 I doubt they've got much say on the running time

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I believe the part of the T4 above Brecon is better than it used to be, south is about the same at 2 hourly.
The T6 (Above Ystradglynlais) has never been hourly before.
Whilst First run the T1 I doubt they've got much say on the running time

The T4 was just a renumbering of the 704. However, the 704 was formed from a number of different routes.

Brecon to Merthyr
This was the 43/X43 that was originally Sixty Sixty Coaches (operated from Abergavenny - Brecon - Merthyr - the Aber bit replacing Stagecoach 21); they continued to operate Brecon to Cardiff with a 470 service for a good few years after the 704 was introduced.

AFAIK, this corridor roughly two hourly with a couple of Sunday runs - I seem to think it had also been Stagecoach operated before 60/60 took it on (and I may have travelled on it - some shabby ex London Dart?)

Brecon to Newtown
This was a motley mix of infrequent services operated by Browns of Builth and Crossgates Coaches - e.g. 4 or 5 return journeys between Builth and Llandrindod, schools workings and the market day journeys on road into Newtown etc. There may have been some other operators involved

 

[carlberry]

The T4 was just a renumbering of the 704. However, the 704 was formed from a number of different routes.

Brecon to Merthyr
This was the 43/X43 that was originally Sixty Sixty Coaches (operated from Abergavenny - Brecon - Merthyr - the Aber bit replacing Stagecoach 21); they continued to operate Brecon to Cardiff with a 470 service for a good few years after the 704 was introduced.

AFAIK, this corridor roughly two hourly with a couple of Sunday runs - I seem to think it had also been Stagecoach operated before 60/60 took it on (and I may have travelled on it - some shabby ex London Dart?)

I'd forgotten about the 704 bit! 60/60 bought new darts for the route when they got it, my last memory of Stagecoach being ex Manchester minibuses. Stagecoach had taken over from Silverline who'd picked it up after deregulation with shiny new Optare City Pacers then upgrading to Leyland trucks!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'd forgotten about the 704 bit! 60/60 bought new darts for the route when they got it, my last memory of Stagecoach being ex Manchester minibuses. Stagecoach had taken over from Silverline who'd picked it up after deregulation with shiny new Optare City Pacers then upgrading to Leyland trucks!

Ah yes - Silverline was a bit before me https://flic.kr/p/4vVz4D and their delightful Swifts

I’m must have been lucky to get a Stagecoach Dart - the Mercs were those long lived N reg 811s? Nasty!

 

[iantherev]

The Sixty Sixty Darts were replaced by some ex Cardiff Metroriders which had spent their lives being flogged over Caerphilly Mountain and thus were not in the rudest of health.

 

[adey2011]

I thought the T11 was a stand alone service from Machynlleth - Newtown - Welshpool - Wrexham, if that it true why has a portion of the T4 which is separate from the T11 being given the service number T11, could it just be a typo?

Lloyds Coaches yesterday cancelled their X85 service on VOSA from Newtown to Machynlleth with effect from September 2nd.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Had chance to check a copy of the GBBTT (I’m not FBB) of old (1999/2000) and the 704 actually runs over the following:

Arriva Cymru G8A that ran 3 times from Newtown to Llandrindod Wells (though first one South and last one North were positioning runs) around school runs.

Crossgates did 9 round trips from Llandrindod Wells to Builth with 6 on Saturdays.

Browns of Builth did 3 Builth to Brecon runs with 1 on Saturdays.

 

[adey2011]

The problem is the T3 is a rail replacement service that became a useful local bus service. As the WAG sees TrawsCymru as complementing the rail network then the T3 is perfect as it connects rail stations at both ends. Sending it to Aberystwyth means it duplicates part of Traws and competes with rail so, I suspect, it would only get as far as Machynlleth.

So the T2 running from Mach to Aberystwyth doesn't compete with rail?