TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

[DaveHarries]

Three more service registrations for today in the VOSA Bus Service registrations, effective 02-Sep-2018:

T4W (T4) Builth Wells - Brecon
T4L (T4) Llandrindod Wells - Builth Wells
T4S (T4) Llandrindod Wells - Llanidloes

Seems a bit pointless when it will most likely all be run with T4 on the front of the bus.

Dave

 

[185]

Sounds like a tacho-avoiding split skirting EU law ie.

(1) Brecon - Builth Wells (2) Builth Wells - Llandrindod Wells (3) Llandrindod Wells - Llanidloes

 

[DaveHarries]

Sounds like a tacho-avoiding split skirting EU law ie.

(1) Brecon - Builth Wells (2) Builth Wells - Llandrindod Wells (3) Llandrindod Wells - Llanidloes

Indeed. And in addition to T4W, T4L and T4S the other items appeared in the VOSA Service Registration entries for 10th July to be effective 02-Sep-2018:

- T4N (T4): Llandrindod Wells - Newtown
- X4A (X4): Abergavenny - Merthyr Tydfil
- X4C (X4, T4): Merthyr Tydfil - Cardiff
- X43 (X43, 43): Brecon - Abergavenny

The fact that the X4C (X4, T4) entry has made me wonder if the T4 will be Newtown - Merthyr Tydfil with buses changing to X4 (or X4C?) at Merthyr for the run to Cardiff. Unlikely as, should that happen, passengers from stops between Merthyr and Newtown would possibly be confused as to which X4C they would need to get back home.

Dave

 

[carlberry]

Three more service registrations for today in the VOSA Bus Service registrations, effective 02-Sep-2018:

T4W (T4) Builth Wells - Brecon
T4L (T4) Llandrindod Wells - Builth Wells
T4S (T4) Llandrindod Wells - Llanidloes

Seems a bit pointless when it will most likely all be run with T4 on the front of the bus.

Dave

The T4S one is for the new bit, the others are how it's been registered since the T4 started. Most Stagecoach registrations include what appears to be a Stagecoach reference in the service number bit as well as the actual service number.

 

[carlberry]

Indeed. And in addition to T4W, T4L and T4S the other items appeared in the VOSA Service Registration entries for 10th July to be effective 02-Sep-2018:

- T4N (T4): Llandrindod Wells - Newtown
- X4A (X4): Abergavenny - Merthyr Tydfil
- X4C (X4, T4): Merthyr Tydfil - Cardiff
- X43 (X43, 43): Brecon - Abergavenny

The fact that the X4C (X4, T4) entry has made me wonder if the T4 will be Newtown - Merthyr Tydfil with buses changing to X4 (or X4C?) at Merthyr for the run to Cardiff. Unlikely as, should that happen, passengers from stops between Merthyr and Newtown would possibly be confused as to which X4C they would need to get back home.

Dave

Again, these are how the services have been refereed to for a couple of years. The Cardiff-Merthyr section covers both the T4 and X4. However it would make some sense if the T4 was dropped between Cardiff and Merthyr as it would stop the free services (T4) competing with the charging services (X4) and trains!

 

[adey2011]

Again, these are how the services have been refereed to for a couple of years. The Cardiff-Merthyr section covers both the T4 and X4. However it would make some sense if the T4 was dropped between Cardiff and Merthyr as it would stop the free services (T4) competing with the charging services (X4) and trains!

I agree with you entirely, but the WAG said the whole Traws Cymru network was free on Sats/Suns and politicians are loathe to back track unless they are called Trump.

 

[Dai Corner]

I agree with you entirely, but the WAG said the whole Traws Cymru network was free on Sats/Suns and politicians are loathe to back track unless they are called Trump.

I seem to remember WG saying they'd compensate commercial operators for the loss of revenue.

 

[carlberry]

I seem to remember WG saying they'd compensate commercial operators for the loss of revenue.

Gordon Brown said something similar about pensioners bus passes!

 

[Markdvdman]

Well I have to say for all the negativity - the T1C from Cardiff was nigh on rammed! It was only 11 mins late to Cross Hands for a big Friday with the schools holiday. However, shocked at how busy it was! The coach element I guess even though not going to Swansea! What I despise though is no USB ports whatsoever - that is poor in this day and age!

 

[Simon75]

Years ago (when it was X94) the now T3 extended beyond Wrexham to Nantwich. From Crewe/Nantwich to get to Wrexham you have get the 84 Crewe-Chester the 1 Chester -Wrexham ( around 2 hours travel). Up to April 2018 Cheshire east did a once a week journey Nantwich-Wrexham

 

[PaulWC]

Years ago (when it was X94) the now T3 extended beyond Wrexham to Nantwich. From Crewe/Nantwich to get to Wrexham you have get the 84 Crewe-Chester the 1 Chester -Wrexham ( around 2 hours travel). Up to April 2018 Cheshire east did a once a week journey Nantwich-Wrexham

The 94 was extended beyond Wrexham to Crewe at D-Day in 1986 - one journey on a Monday and Friday. I think they also extended a journey out to Chester as well. The Crewe journey was to offer a link to the rail station, but didn't last too long into 1987. 'Border to Coast' was the name Crosville Wales used on the coaches at the time.

The 89 from Nantwich to Wrexham only started in 2014 and was cut as part of Cheshire Easts review earier this year.

 

[johntrawscymru]

Well I have to say for all the negativity - the T1C from Cardiff was nigh on rammed! It was only 11 mins late to Cross Hands for a big Friday with the schools holiday. However, shocked at how busy it was! The coach element I guess even though not going to Swansea! What I despise though is no USB ports whatsoever - that is poor in this day and age!

Must have been holiday Friday !!. Used T1C Aberystwyth to Cardiff and back Tuesday 24 july . Just over half full reaching Cardiff and same coming back to Aberystwyth . Still no connection in Aberystwyth with T2 from Dolgellau (departs Dolgellau 8.10 and arrives Aberystwyth 9.30 and is not therefore a connecting service with T1C which departs 9.30) . On return journey the stop in Carmarthen for 17 minutes was a bit of a puzzle to both the passengers and the driver. The T1C arrives in Carmarthen at 18.48 connects with the T1S which arrives at 18.52 and then waits until 19.05 when it sets off in convoy with the T1 to Aberystwyth which goes via Lampeter. The T1C and T1 take different routes when they reach Pencader. If Trawscymru do not allow passengers from North of Aberystwyth to connect with the T1C and do not stop the unneccessary 17 minute wait in Carmarthen on the return journey they will lose passengers . The crazy thing is that potential passengers from Dolgellau have a connecting T2 service in the evening but cannot connect with the T1C in the morning !!. The way the T1C is set up it is designed to fail.

 

[Markdvdman]

Must have been holiday Friday !!. Used T1C Aberystwyth to Cardiff and back Tuesday 24 july . Just over half full reaching Cardiff and same coming back to Aberystwyth . Still no connection in Aberystwyth with T2 from Dolgellau (departs Dolgellau 8.10 and arrives Aberystwyth 9.30 and is not therefore a connecting service with T1C which departs 9.30) . On return journey the stop in Carmarthen for 17 minutes was a bit of a puzzle to both the passengers and the driver. The T1C arrives in Carmarthen at 18.48 connects with the T1S which arrives at 18.52 and then waits until 19.05 when it sets off in convoy with the T1 to Aberystwyth which goes via Lampeter. The T1C and T1 take different routes when they reach Pencader. If Trawscymru do not allow passengers from North of Aberystwyth to connect with the T1C and do not stop the unneccessary 17 minute wait in Carmarthen on the return journey they will lose passengers . The crazy thing is that potential passengers from Dolgellau have a connecting T2 service in the evening but cannot connect with the T1C in the morning !!. The way the T1C is set up it is designed to fail.

You are indeed correct it was the last day of term for most children though hardly any onboard!

However, from what you said it is destined to fail - by taking Lampeter out was insane! The government want it to fail - mind boggling!!!

 

[krus_aragon]

You are indeed correct it was the last day of term for most children though hardly any onboard!

Up in North Wales, many schools had broken up on the Wednesday or Thursday, with teacher training on the remaining days. That may have been the case with South Wales council areas too.

 

[johntrawscymru]

Tender for a new T10 route from Bangor to Chirk/ Oswestry.
http://ted.europa.eu/TED/notice/udl...and+Products&WT.rss_a=248265-2018&WT.rss_ev=a

I have just found an interesting WAG document introduced by Ken Skates in 2017 https://beta.gov.wales/sites/defaul...017-12/welsh-transport-appraisal-guidance.pdf
https://beta.gov.wales/sites/defaul...017-12/welsh-transport-appraisal-guidance.pdf
The following points are taken from that document

“”The Welsh Transport Appraisal (WelTAG) is a framework for thinking about proposed changes to the transport system. It contains best practice for the development, appraisal and evaluation of proposed transport interventions in Wales. WelTAG ensures a clear audit trail of decision-making, providing the justification for the promotion, or otherwise, of transport options.
WelTAG is designed to be used by people who have local knowledge of the particular issues that have prompted the desire to consider improving the transport system. These may be central or local government officers, politicians, local community groups or members of the general public. The WelTAG process must be applied to all transport projects funded in part or in full by the Welsh Government. Well documented and robust evidence should underlie the whole of the WelTAG process. A WelTAG appraisal should set out the whole range of foreseeable impacts of each of the proposed solutions. Collaboration and involvement are important throughout a WelTAG appraisal. During the more detailed design and assessment of shortlisted options, engagement with the public and other stakeholders will assist in gathering evidence. The WelTAG process is designed to share understanding between those involved in making the decisions and those affected by those decisions. This underlies the importance of stakeholder involvement and public engagement. WelTAG is a process that leads to the development of better solutions.. Over time, completed WelTAG reports and their supporting data will become an invaluable resource for learning about what does and doesn’t work in particular situations. “”

Since February 2018 I have been attempting to get an evaluation document from the WAG for the new Trawscymru routes being introduced but have been met by a wall of silence. The WAG have ignored the Winckler review, ignored the WAG Transport Strategy and ignore WelTAG. Why bother having WAG policies on Transport at all ? Would anyone else be interested in asking the WAG for their evaluation document of the new Trawscymru routes ?

 

[Dai Corner]

Russell George AM is the opposition spokesman for Economy, Transport, Culture, Tourism and Sport. He would be the person to take up a well-argued case with Mr Skates. I wouldn't go into minute detail about timetabling etc though.

https://www.welshconservatives.com/people/russell-george-am

 

[Bwsbro]

Russell George AM is the opposition spokesman for Economy, Transport, Culture, Tourism and Sport. He would be the person to take up a well-argued case with Mr Skates. I wouldn't go into minute detail about timetabling etc though.

https://www.welshconservatives.com/people/russell-george-am

Problem with politicising this is by the time the AMs will be back in Cardiff Bay the bus will have been running for weeks

 

[WelshBuses93]

Combined T4 and T14 timetable now online. Sunday timetable yet to be available.
https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s...es/Combined T4 T14 and X4 Print Timetable.pdf

 

[Smethwickian]

Combined T4 and T14 timetable now online. Sunday timetable yet to be available.
https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/Wales/Web Timetables/Combined T4 T14 and X4 Print Timetable.pdf

At first glance that seems to be a much reduced service, especially during college holidays, between Hay-on-Wye and Hereford compared with the current 39. With all but the few hundred yards of that section within Hay town being in Herefordshire, I wonder if that English council might now have to consider picking up the pieces?

 

[adey2011]

At first glance that seems to be a much reduced service, especially during college holidays, between Hay-on-Wye and Hereford compared with the current 39. With all but the few hundred yards of that section within Hay town being in Herefordshire, I wonder if that English council might now have to consider picking up the pieces?

Very interesting though somewhat convoluted, has anyone any information regarding the T10, T11 and T12 i.e. operators start dates etc. Given that 56 days should elapse from registration to start date that would mean September 27th if anything is published today, some time ago September 2nd was the speculated target date.

 

[Bwsbro]

Very interesting though somewhat convoluted, has anyone any information regarding the T10, T11 and T12 i.e. operators start dates etc. Given that 56 days should elapse from registration to start date that would mean September 27th if anything is published today, some time ago September 2nd was the speculated target date.

As they are council awarded contracts they will be put through under short notice. The T10 should start on the 13th August

 

[adey2011]

As they are council awarded contracts they will be put through under short notice. The T10 should start on the 13th August

Does this mean then that they are not really a part of the Traws Cymru operation and cognisant with the WAG operationas a whole.

 

[carlberry]

Does this mean then that they are not really a part of the Traws Cymru operation and cognisant with the WAG operationas a whole.

I believe all Traws Cymru routes are actually council contracts. I suspect WAG has no way of contracting bus services itself.

 

[carlberry]

As they are council awarded contracts they will be put through under short notice. The T10 should start on the 13th August

I suspect some very poor loadings until the timetables stop being state secrets!!

 

[adey2011]

I believe all Traws Cymru routes are actually council contracts. I suspect WAG has no way of contracting bus services itself.

Ok understood, I have heard unsolicited reports that the T11/T12 may be a joint operation between Lloyds Coaches and Tanat Valley but I hasten to add it is rumour only.

 

[Dai Corner]

What's with the T4 Cardiff-Merthyr short workings? I could just about accept the argument for through journeys Cardiff to Brecon etc but I thought contracted services weren't allowed to compete directly with commercial ones?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I believe all Traws Cymru routes are actually council contracts. I suspect WAG has no way of contracting bus services itself.

You are correct. The contracts have always been contracted via the LA. In the old days of WAG and the original TrawsCambria services, the X40 from Aber to Carmarthen was actually split so that the Arriva journeys were contracted to Ceredigion and the First journeys were contracted to Carmarthenshire.

 

[carlberry]

What's with the T4 Cardiff-Merthyr short workings? I could just about accept the argument for through journeys Cardiff to Brecon etc but I thought contracted services weren't allowed to compete directly with commercial ones?

I believe the whole Merthyr-Cardiff section was commercial and the numbering was just to ensure some consistency between a two hourly service and a more frequent service. However it must have become more complex how the T4 is free at weekends.

 

[Dai Corner]

I believe the whole Merthyr-Cardiff section was commercial and the numbering was just to ensure some consistency between a two hourly service and a more frequent service. However it must have become more complex how the T4 is free at weekends.

Looking into it further on the DVSA site, the T4 is split into four registrations
Cardiff-Merthyr and Merthyr-Brecon are commercial, Llandrindod Wells-Builth Wells and Builth Wells-Brecon aren't.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...21b2a120a9a3-0286f6424ad50c1c20ac7bb81d3806ff

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

At first glance that seems to be a much reduced service, especially during college holidays, between Hay-on-Wye and Hereford compared with the current 39. With all but the few hundred yards of that section within Hay town being in Herefordshire, I wonder if that English council might now have to consider picking up the pieces?

Not certain I get you.

Current Hay to Hereford - 0708, 0950, 1150, 1405, 1638
Future Hay to Hereford - 0708, 0942, 1142, 1342, 1540 (CD), 1642 (CD)

Current Hereford to Hay - 0835, 1135, 1335, 1555, 1745
Future Hereford to Hay - 0830, 0915 (CD), 1115, 1315, 1515, 1646 (CD), 1746

I am reading it incorrectly?

Another oddity is the college holidays and the first run from Hereford to Brecon. That in college hols terminates in Hay (rather than run through to Brecon. However, the 0915 (CD) ex Hereford runs all year round from Hay to Brecon at 1021. So on college days, there's two direct runs first thing but in the hols, only one with an enforced cup of tea break in Hay for 47 mins - driver break?