TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

[carlberry]

The T14 for the whole of its length and the T4 south of Brecon are now commercial. North of Bishop’s Meadow the T4 is still run under contract to Powys.

Given the nature of the Merthyr-Brecon section and it suddenly getting the best service it's ever had that's quite a brave move!

 

[splashoutradio]

The TrawsCymru website appears to have been updated today, with an additional page for the T14 route.
It only has 4 lines of text on it, but progress all the same, I guess.

 

[DaveHarries]

Given the nature of the Merthyr-Brecon section and it suddenly getting the best service it's ever had that's quite a brave move!

Maybe so. I have done Cardiff to Brecon on the bus a couple of times and the numbers getting off at Brecon were good on both occasions. I can imagine that some people might use it for commuting to / from Cardiff as an alternative to driving.

Dave

 

[carlberry]

The Traveline website's T4 timetable has been changed. Obviously it's not correct however it does now have a misspent note to say that the T12 timetable isn't available yet but might be sometime this year, which will be a lot of use for T4 users!

 

[Dai Corner]

Maybe so. I have done Cardiff to Brecon on the bus a couple of times and the numbers getting off at Brecon were good on both occasions. I can imagine that some people might use it for commuting to / from Cardiff as an alternative to driving.

Dave

Leave Brecon at 0620 and get back at 1955, and if you miss a bus or it's cancelled you're stuffed? I doubt if you'd get many takers for that commute.

 

[RELL6L]

I can't answer any of your questions but I applaud your adventuring spirit Sounds like an excellent day out! Aside from the 39 (and possibly the 195 - I can't recall), I've not done any of those routes though I have been a frequent visitor to the area so know the roads and places - just a bit envious of you. The X14 would be a fantastic run out past Cynghordy and Sugar Loaf, and past the "museum" at Browns of Builth. Also, brave to effect a change at Talgarth!!!

Thanks for posting - I think it's fairly relevant to TC anyway

Yes, X14 really good run. Talgarth is a pleasant place, no issue changing there. Mind you the main stop was called 'Natwest' (and still is) - but no sign of a Natwest (or any bank)!

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

just tried looking up the T14 on the TrawsCymru website... click on the link for the timetable and as usual takes you to Traveline... when you click on the link for a pdf timetable it takes you to the T11/T12 timetable... for all those wanting to know where the T11/ T12 timetable is... now you know... it's accessed via asking about the T14... go figure!

 

[Smethwickian]

just tried looking up the T14 on the TrawsCymru website... click on the link for the timetable and as usual takes you to Traveline... when you click on the link for a pdf timetable it takes you to the T11/T12 timetable... for all those wanting to know where the T11/ T12 timetable is... now you know... it's accessed via asking about the T14... go figure!

Stagecoach website has the T14 timetable. The TrawsCymru website is quite frankly one of the least useful promotional vehicles for a bus brand that I have ever seen. Almost completely useless.

 

[carlberry]

Stagecoach website has the T14 timetable. The TrawsCymru website is quite frankly one of the least useful promotional vehicles for a bus brand that I have ever seen. Almost completely useless.

Once the timetables actually appeared on Traveline last week I emailed Traveline, Traws Cymru and the WAG to complain about how long it took and how useless some of the information was in the interim, especially as so much money was available to pay for the services and run them for free at weekends. So far Traveline have replied (and it sounded like a reply from the only person working there), the WAG have sent an automated reply and silence from Traws Cymru for 6 days!

 

[Dai Corner]

Once the timetables actually appeared on Traveline last week I emailed Traveline, Traws Cymru and the WAG to complain about how long it took and how useless some of the information was in the interim, especially as so much money was available to pay for the services and run them for free at weekends. So far Traveline have replied (and it sounded like a reply from the only person working there), the WAG have sent an automated reply and silence from Traws Cymru for 6 days!

Is Traws Cymru just that one Llandudno- based fellow? Maybe he's on annual leave?

And why isn't it part of TfW, especially as the buses are supposed to complement railway services?

 

[carlberry]

Is Traws Cymru just that one Llandudno- based fellow? Maybe he's on annual leave?

And why isn't it part of TfW, especially as the buses are supposed to complement railway services?

Quite possibly, however he hasn't got an out of office!
I'm sure TfW is completely separate and don't talk to anybody else!

 

[splashoutradio]

Looks like there may be a few problems with the T11/T12 service. This message is currently being displayed on the Traveline Cymru website.

The T11 and T12 routes between Oswestry Park Gates and Wrexham Bus Station have been suspended due to operational reasons.

The Oswestry to Wrexham section of route will be re-introduced on the 19th October 2018.

In the meantime a normal service will be operated as advertised on the rest of the route between Machynlleth and Oswestry, and free travel is offered on weekends.

Source: https://www.traveline.cymru/disruptions/988/

 

[iantherev]

Reading between the lines, Powys County Council put the registration in for the services late and hoped the TC would nod it through on short notice. The TC had little option since the cancellations were already in for the Machynlleth - Oswestry sections but stood firm on the new Wrexham extension insisting on the proper notice period.

In other news, Lloyds are running a Machynlleth town service on a very limited basis at present as Powys ‘forgot’ to retender it...

 

[carlberry]

Looks like there may be a few problems with the T11/T12 service. This message is currently being displayed on the Traveline Cymru website.

Source: https://www.traveline.cymru/disruptions/988/

This is because of the late registration as Ian said. Oddly they could get round it by operating without charging but have opted to withdraw it, despite having finally published the timetable for it! So at weekends it's not running because they'd have to operate it without charging instead of operating it for free as they intended to!

 

[krus_aragon]

This is because of the late registration as Ian said. Oddly they could get round it by operating without charging but have opted to withdraw it, despite having finally published the timetable for it! So at weekends it's not running because they'd have to operate it without charging instead of operating it for free as they intended to!

That's an interesting parallel with new railways in the 19th century: the railway had to be inspected by the Board of Trade before you could run any passenger trains, or specifically "Public Conveyance of Passengers or Goods". But if you weren't selling tickets, and just invited, say, a local Sunday School, to come on a day out free of charge, that was perfectly legal.

 

[iantherev]

This is because of the late registration as Ian said. Oddly they could get round it by operating without charging but have opted to withdraw it, despite having finally published the timetable for it! So at weekends it's not running because they'd have to operate it without charging instead of operating it for free as they intended to!

Nurse, my pills please!

 

[K219UHA]

Looks like there may be a few problems with the T11/T12 service. This message is currently being displayed on the Traveline Cymru website.

Source: https://www.traveline.cymru/disruptions/988/

This is because of the late registration as Ian said. Oddly they could get round it by operating without charging but have opted to withdraw it, despite having finally published the timetable for it! So at weekends it's not running because they'd have to operate it without charging instead of operating it for free as they intended to!

Reliably informed that Shropshire Council have objected to the introduction of a tendered service by Powys that competes with the commercially operated 2 service between Oswestry and Chirk, despite the T12 been limited stop been why the Wrexham runs are suspended until October 19th whilst it all gets reviewed.

 

[carlberry]

Had a ride on the T4 and T6 on Saturday. The reason was to walk across from Cray to Storey Arms, the kind of thing that the increased frequency makes much easier to plan. Having free buses also helps but wasn't the deciding factor.
The T4 turned up at Storey Arms and disgorged a considerable number of people, mostly appearing to have taken advantage of the free rides. As there wasn't a large number of seats left I suspect there had been standing up to that point. Of the passengers left I suspect 75% would have had a free ride anyway. The T6 out of Brecon was much more as I expected it with only a few on and mostly pass holders.
Clearly on a day like Saturday the offer of free travel will bring out lots of people. However I'm still amazed that both the Merthyr and Swansea routes out of Brecon are now hourly with a Sunday service that would have been impressive in the week a few years ago.

 

[johntrawscymru]

Reliably informed that Shropshire Council have objected to the introduction of a tendered service by Powys that competes with the commercially operated 2 service between Oswestry and Chirk, despite the T12 been limited stop been why the Wrexham runs are suspended until October 19th whilst it all gets reviewed.

A pity nobody objected to the T3 using

Reliably informed that Shropshire Council have objected to the introduction of a tendered service by Powys that competes with the commercially operated 2 service between Oswestry and Chirk, despite the T12 been limited stop been why the Wrexham runs are suspended until October 19th whilst it all gets reviewed.

You would have thought that the Llandudno man would have covered this when he did the Ken Skates WELTAG evaluation of T11/T12 and consulted everyone on the new route . However there was no consultation as far as I am aware. Anyone out there who has any idea of how the route was evaluated please speak up now. However overnight Oswestry has become a strategic location and even if the T11/T12 only goes from Mach to Oswestry it will be able to link up with the T10 from Oswestry to Bangor and then Ken Skates can finally get rid of the T2 which he has allowed to be totally screwed up by the Llandudno man with the ridiculous 15 minute waits for the T3 (Wrexham to Barmouth) in Dolgellau. The WAG have no idea how to organise long distance bus services = The Trawscymru network is developing into a collection of long distance local bus services trundling along the B roads of Wales. Go anywhere in Europe and you will find that long distance services are well organised - they use comfortable coaches on the fastest route possible with minimal diversions and use smaller local buses to feed the long distance services. Contrast that with the empty double decker T3 city buses trundling through the B roads of Ken Skates AM constituency of South Clwyd. Someone mentioned asking the nurse for the pills - pass the pills to the 2 gentlemen above.

 

[transmanche]

Contrast that with the empty double decker T3 city buses trundling through the B roads of Ken Skates AM constituency of South Clwyd. Someone mentioned asking the nurse for the pills - pass the pills to the 2 gentlemen above.

Only three mentions of Ken Skates this time.

Well done!

 

[johntrawscymru]

Only three mentions of Ken Skates this time.

Well done!


Two mentions - the third referred to a gentleman. You have to give credit where credit is due. Perhaps you have someone else in mind to praise for what the Welsh Government have done and are planning to do with the Trawscymru Network in North Wales. There are a number of other candidates that you could choose from so why not give us a clue what your views are and make your choice .

 

[transmanche]

Two mentions - the third referred to a gentleman.

No, the words 'Ken Skates' appeared in your post three times. Hence, 'three mentions'.

You clearly have a bee in your bonnet about the man. I don't know why and, quite frankly, I don't care. The fact that you've had FOI requests rejected for being 'vexatious' speaks volumes: one of the identifiers of a vexatious request is where the requester has a personal grudge against an office holder.

This grudge makes your posts difficult to follow, loaded as they are with barbed and repetitious mentions of the man: e.g. "Oh the joys of being a Transport Minister and arranging a Trawescymru network for the benefit of his own constituents.", "The T3 service is only used at weekends when Ken's constituents can go for a free trip to the seaside."

I apologise for being very blunt. You're fairly new to the board, so my advice to you is; chill out and drop the sarcastic comments - then people will engage. Continue as you are and you'll soon end up on people's ignore list...

PS My personal bugbear: there's no longer such thing as the 'WAG'. The 'Welsh Assembly Government' was renamed 'Welsh Government' by the Wales Act 2014.

 

[krus_aragon]

Another snippet of advice: comment/criticise the policy, not the person.

 

[johntrawscymru]

No, the words 'Ken Skates' appeared in your post three times. Hence, 'three mentions'.

You clearly have a bee in your bonnet about the man. I don't know why and, quite frankly, I don't care. The fact that you've had FOI requests rejected for being 'vexatious' speaks volumes: one of the identifiers of a vexatious request is where the requester has a personal grudge against an office holder.

This grudge makes your posts difficult to follow, loaded as they are with barbed and repetitious mentions of the man: e.g. "Oh the joys of being a Transport Minister and arranging a Trawescymru network for the benefit of his own constituents.", "The T3 service is only used at weekends when Ken's constituents can go for a free trip to the seaside."

I apologise for being very blunt. You're fairly new to the board, so my advice to you is; chill out and drop the sarcastic comments - then people will engage. Continue as you are and you'll soon end up on people's ignore list...

PS My personal bugbear: there's no longer such thing as the 'WAG'. The 'Welsh Assembly Government' was renamed 'Welsh Government' by the Wales Act 2014.

Please do not apologise for being blunt . Far better to be blunt and speak the truth. I became “vexatious” in February 2018 one day after asking the WG for details of the proposed new Trawscymru Bangor to Chirk/Oswestry route, the existence of which had been squeezed out of Conwy County Council by the Information Commissioner on my behalf

With respect to the post you choose to criticise , perhaps you have no knowledge of the Trawscymru Network. I believe that what has happened with respect to destruction of the T2/T1 Bangor to Carmarthen route by the introduction of a T3 Wrexham to Barmouth service (against the recommendations of the Winckler review) involving the introduction of 15 minute waits for the T2 service in Dolgellau for late T3 services from Wrexham should be addressed. The latest performance monitoring data for the T3 reported in March 2018 show only 87% of Wrexham– Barmouth services are punctual set against the 95% standard employed by the Road traffic Commissioner. I am not sure whether the Traffic Commisioner would be entitled to impose a fine for this as the figure has deteriorated from that reported on 24/01/2017 which was 91%. This shows the 15 minute waits applied to the T2 service in Dolgellau are not working as in 13% of cases the T2 15 minute wait was irrelevant and the T3 still arrived more than 5 minutes late in Barmouth (therefore at least 15 minutes late into Dolgellau) . The only result of the T2 15 minute wait in Dolgellau is loss of connectivity between the T2 and the T1 in Aberystwyth.and this problem in Aberystwyth lies with the T3 route between Dolgellau and Wrexham which involves a journey time of 2 hrs 10 minutes. There and back is 4 hrs 20 minutes. Therefore the 15 minute wait of the hourly/2 hourly T2 service to wait for the T3 from Wrexham is just not enough as in reality the T2 should be waiting 20 minutes. There are plenty of options to allow this route (which has not changed for in excess of 50 years) to be redesigned and speed it up but the WG are intent on not doing this

The Winckler review recommended a feasibility study to route the T3 from Wrexham to Aberystwyth which would have avoided the above problem. This feasibility study was never carried out and the WG admitted this on 27/10/2017 and the Minister then had to commission it again which he did on 14/11/2017. saying “”I have asked officials to commission a “”high-level” review to identify the benefits and operational feasibility of introducing additional Trawscymru services between Aberystwyth and Wrexham linking in with existing bus services and the rail network . We are expecting the review to be completed by the Spring and I will ask my officials to ensure Ceredigion County Council is consulted on this work””

The consultation with Ceredigion County Council never took place and a different review of the T3 Wrexham to Barmouth route was published ten months later (09/08/2018) on the WG website. (see https://beta.gov.wales/sites/defaul...-recommendations-by-professor-stuart-cole.pdf).

This 09/08/2018 version of the review does not mention investigations, consultations , results , conclusions or recommendations on Trawscymru services between Aberystwyth and Wrexham. One month before on 09/07/2018 I received a different version of the review , which contained no reference whatsoever to Trawscymru services between Aberystwyth and Wrexham. My Information requests to the WG on why the earlier 09/07/2018 version contained no reference whatsoever to Trawscymru services between Aberystwyth and Wrexham.was considered to be “vexatious” but following my Information Request the review document was changed to add a brief reference to “Trawscymru services between Aberystwyth and Wrexham”. .

As for the barbed and repetitious comments are you sure that WG Ministers and their officials never resort to barbed and repetitious comments in their everyday responses to their fellow politicians, the media and the public. In my experience of 3 years of correspondence they have proved to be very capable of providing barbed and repetitious comments and have even requested that their comments should be classed as confidential and not revealed to me or anyone else. As for “criticising the policy not the person”, referencing the WELTAG document as being created by the Minister and referencing the South Clwydd AM constituency as belonging to the Minister is part and parcel of describing who are the relevant personnel involved. With respect to references to the WAG. The WG refuse to communicate and the Assembly is the only avenue along with external organisations that I can use to obtain any information . The Assembly have the job of holding the WG to account and therefore in all honesty I am dealing with the WAG.

PS
Has anyone had a view of the T11/T12 route evaluation?
Has anyone got a view on the T2 15 minute wait issue in Dolgellau , particularly those who have a knowledge of the Trawscymru network ?

 

[Cambrian359]

Does the t2 have to wait heading north bound in dolgellau for the t3?
My biggest annoyance with he t2 is that it leaves Machynlleth as little as 3 minutes before the train pulls in from Birmingham meaning up to 2 hours wait in Machynlleth for the next bus to Dolgellau.
The t2 is fine going to Mach for the train.

 

[transmanche]

As for the barbed and repetitious comments are you sure that WG Ministers and their officials never resort to barbed and repetitious comments in their everyday responses to their fellow politicians, the media and the public.

The actions of WG Ministers and their officials isn't relevant. What is relevant is whether you want to have meaningful discussions and exchanges of ideas on this forum - or merely to use it as a place to rant.

 

[johntrawscymru]

The actions of WG Ministers and their officials isn't relevant. What is relevant is whether you want to have meaningful discussions and exchanges of ideas on this forum - or merely to use it as a place to rant.

You mean meaningful discussions and exchanges of ideas like yours. So far in your last 4 posts (?? are they the only 4 posts you have made on Trawscymru ??) you have not mentioned Trawscymru once and Just crticised using WAG instead of WG and criticised (ranted? ) about mentioning Ken Skates 3 times. The actions of Ken Skates and his WG officials are very relevant to Trawscymru bus services, so perhaps you could tell us all why you have the idea that their actions are not relevant and then we can get on with a meaningful discussion .

 

[Dai Corner]

Getting back to buses, would it be possible to construct a timetable that ensured good connections between TrawsCymru services and with trains at all possible locations? I suspect not, so which are the most important connections and why?

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Getting back to buses, would it be possible to construct a timetable that ensured good connections between TrawsCymru services and with trains at all possible locations? I suspect not, so which are the most important connections and why?

another related question... how much time do you give for the connection between bus and rail? With the Trawscymru services running hrly or 2hrly and the trains they connect into running to similar frequencies... do you schedule connection at 10 mins to provide "seamless" transfer? or do you schedule 30 mins to allow for unforseen problems and also to allow customers to purchase pre-journey snakes?
If using the train, especially for a long journey or if going for a specific time train, prefer to plan to arrive at the stn at LEAST 30 mins before my train is due... whilst obviously others are in too much of a hurry to take a pause for 10-15 mins

 

[johnnychips]

... or do you schedule 30 mins to allow for unforseen problems and also to allow customers to purchase pre-journey snakes?

This made my day...