Trent Barton Press Statement after Passenger Raped after being kicked off Bus.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ginga

Member
Joined
10 Feb 2012
Messages
129
What follows is the only statement I can get out of @trentbartonlive regarding the rape that followed one of their passengers being ejected from one of their buses late at night (after being 20p short of a £5 fare): "Our drivers are well known for looking after people and there have been many examples of exceptional service by our teams, even including paying their own customers fares out of their own pocket. Sadly on this occasion this did not happen and our driver did not follow his training. The matter was dealt with through our disciplinary procedure within days of the incident last December"
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,934
Any linky to the incident?
 

MCR247

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2008
Messages
9,090
Tbh honest this doesn't seem like Trent Barton at all

(Don't take the statement to say that I don't think it was them, I'm just saying I'm surprised as it doesn't seem like something their drivers would do in my expirience!)
 

ushawk

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2010
Messages
1,965
Location
Eastbourne
There's a story on the Daily Mail website.

The way that story is written is pushing the blame on the bus driver, basically saying its his fault the woman was raped basically. Stupidly written article to me, not as if the driver of the passengers knew what was going to happen.

Not just the driver who couldnt of been a bit more lenient - other passengers didnt help either.
 

Badger

Member
Joined
17 Oct 2011
Messages
617
Location
Wolverhampton
I appreciate it's a sensitive topic, but really, drivers are expected to pay passengers fares out of their own pocket? It is terrible that this has happened, but blame the rapist, not the driver of a bus.
 

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,484
Location
Glasgow
It's to be expected of the Daily Mail and the facebook mob though. Sure, in hindsight it would of been a very helpful gesture if the driver or other passengers had given the 20p, but people are increasingly mistrustful of others asking even for 20p. Sad but true unfortunately.

It was a case of wrong place wrong time for the poor victim. Shouting and screaming at Trent Barton is of no use. The rapist could well have attacked someone else and he is the only one to blame here - too many people forget that in cases like this.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
27,942
Location
Yorks
The rapist could well have attacked someone else and he is the only one to blame here - too many people forget that in cases like this.

Absolutely agree. Blame should be apportioned to where it belongs - the criminal.
 

causton

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
5,502
Location
Somewhere between WY372 and MV7
It was a case of wrong place wrong time for the poor victim. Shouting and screaming at Trent Barton is of no use. The rapist could well have attacked someone else and he is the only one to blame here - too many people forget that in cases like this.

Totally agree!

However, one time the driver just put an excess down for what money I had when I was 20p short of a fare, had lost my day ticket, and it was the last bus of the evening... surprised they can't exercise discretion that way!
 

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,484
Location
Glasgow
However, one time the driver just put an excess down for what money I had when I was 20p short of a fare, had lost my day ticket, and it was the last bus of the evening... surprised they can't exercise discretion that way!

I am a little surprised at the lack of discretion and that details couldn't be noted down as it would be done on a train, but to blame the driver for the rape, as the facebook mob are doing, is much too far. I know a bus company near me tells drivers to avoid leaving vulnerable people behind if at all possible, and it seems that Trent Barton had a similar policy.

It serves as a stark warning to others in similar situations that you have to plan as best you can and try to carry spare change on your person in a safe place.
 

IanXC

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
18 Dec 2009
Messages
5,878
I know a bus company near me tells drivers to avoid leaving vulnerable people behind if at all possible...

Perhaps, given the experience of this operator other posters have mentioned, there is a question of how do you define vulnerable?
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
16,594
Location
Yorkshire, Yorkshire, Yorkshire
Absolutely agree. Blame should be apportioned to where it belongs - the criminal.

Yup - the Daily Mail hatemob conveniently forget this.

To be fair to TB, most businesses don't have the discretion to allow someone to pay less than the normal price. If you want to allow drivers that discretion then you have to expect more people at bus stops trying to get away with paying less than the full fare - what can you do?
 

trentside

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
14 Aug 2010
Messages
3,329
Location
The back cab
Surprisingly, even the BBC article seems to be laying the blame with the bus driver rather than the vile criminal who committed the crime. The driver probably should have shown discretion, but what about the other passengers who didn't come forward and offer 20p? There must be a reason for that. It is still none of their fault that she was raped, that is the fault of the criminal.
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,636
I appreciate it's a sensitive topic, but really, drivers are expected to pay passengers fares out of their own pocket? It is terrible that this has happened, but blame the rapist, not the driver of a bus.

It says "there have been many examples of exceptional service by our teams, even including paying their own customers fares out of their own pocket."

That suggests to me that Trent Barton are aware of their drivers offering to pay for someone's fare not that it's expected.

If you were a driver and someone you knew and trusted boarded saying they had lost their wallet and could pay you back some other time, would you not put your own money in and let them pay you back?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The driver probably should have shown discretion, but what about the other passengers who didn't come forward and offer 20p? There must be a reason for that.

How many times have you heard someone say something along the lines of "Excuse me I need to get the bus home but I'm 30p short, can you help me?"

I imagine most passengers ignore the real cases of someone being a bit short because of the number of beggars using that excuse who have no intention of going on the bus.
 

anthony263

Established Member
Joined
19 Aug 2008
Messages
5,772
Location
South Wales
If I was the driver I must admit I would have accepted the £4.80 and paid the 20p myself or explained to the boss when I got back to depot. I have seen some drivers do this for regular passengers or freinds/relatives.

That said I feel sorry for the driver who is being made out to be a criminal because it was his fault this woman got raped. How was the driver to know this woman would be raped?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
How many times have you heard someone say something along the lines of "Excuse me I need to get the bus home but I'm 30p short, can you help me?"

I imagine most passengers ignore the real cases of someone being a bit short because of the number of beggars using that excuse who have no intention of going on the bus.

Happens regulary at Cardiff Central bus station and they always seem to ask me when I am about to photograph a particular vehicle which really annoys me.

There has even been the case of someone getting on the bus to ask for someone to lend them 50p
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
How many times have you heard someone say something along the lines of "Excuse me I need to get the bus home but I'm 30p short, can you help me?"

I imagine most passengers ignore the real cases of someone being a bit short because of the number of beggars using that excuse who have no intention of going on the bus.

Quite.

I can see both sides of things here. I can understand the victim feeling that Trent Barton are partly to blame following such a horrific incident. After all, if she had been allowed on the bus it would not have happened.

In the end, where does a driver draw the line? how do they decide who to allow on? How do they decide when a short fare should be accepted? 5p short, 10p, 20p, £1?

One thing I cerrtainly don't agree with is the media projecting the action sof a criminal on to a bus driver who was, in all probability, just trying to do their job as best they could. That is the problem with discretion, whatever decision you make will be criticised by someone.
 

tbone

Member
Joined
19 May 2011
Messages
323
Location
Derbyshire
Whilst the driver not letting the girl on is one contributing factor to the incident, it is just one of many, the girl should have made sure she had enough money to get home and to be honest, aiming to catch the last bus of the night is risky incase you miss it or something like this happens. There are plenty of other passengers who could have helped her out but didn't but fundamentally the disgusting criminal who did this should really be receiving 100% of the blame, what he did was sick and disgusting, he even went to police and said he found her in that state. That driver is going to have to live with the fact that his brief error of judgement played a part in this attack, but he really doesn't deserve to be dragged through the press over it.
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
[Quotation Removed]

So now the driver is not only a jobsworth, but also an accessory? Great. In an ideal world, no one would find themselves with not enough money to travel home, no one would ever have pretended to be short of money to get a reduced cost ride, no one would be raped and no one would be put into a position of having to make a quick decision on the spot as to whetehr someone should be allowed to travel or not.

But we don't live in an ideal world.

It's very easy to sit at home and make a judgement after the incident, but you cannot know what other factors went through that drivers mind. For example how many people had tried to get on that night with no or insufficient money? What would have happened when the takings were paid in they were a few quid light because so many people had been let off? A quid here, 20p there, it soon adds up. Had the driver been spoken to about a previous incident or incidents where or she had allowed someone to travel when they hadn't paid the full fare? And before anyone suggests it, what if the driver didn't have the money to pay for these passengers? Should a driver have to take extra money out to cover for passengers short fares?

And all the above could apply to female drivers as well as male. In fact, in my experience, male drivers are more likely to be lenient towards a lone female late at night than other females would be.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

anthony263

Established Member
Joined
19 Aug 2008
Messages
5,772
Location
South Wales
[Quotation Removed]

As Greenback has already said yes the driver perhaps should have been more willing to let her travel since it was only 20p however you do have to draw the line somewhere especially if you get it happening regulary.

However you saying the driver aided and abetted the rape of this young woman by leaving her I do find disgusting to put it in polite terms. Most male bus drivers I know would have let her on the bus, myself included especially when you have to worry about the risk of a sorry situation like this.

Personally the only person who is really to blame is the rapist himself.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mutant Lemming

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
3,194
Location
London
[Quotation Removed]

The problem lies as much with everyone who tries to cheat the system, everyone who cadges money, far more than the driver in this instance. For it is those people who have given us the indifferent frame of mind towards the very few genuine people who need help or assistance - hence we hear of so many people walking by when someone collapses because we just think it's 'another drunk/drug addict'.
Hindsight is such a wonderful thing and it is easy to point the finger of blame. I am sure the bus driver feels a sesne of guilt over this but you can't hold people responsible for doing their job properly.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,484
Location
Glasgow
There are many "what ifs?" in life and hindsight is such a wonderful thing.

What if the victim had gone to the cash point and got a taxi? What if she had waited in a well lit place for her mother to pick her up (if you read the story she was out looking for her in the car)?

There is only one person to apportion blame to here and that is the mindless thug who committed such a heinous crime.
 

Heinz57

Member
Joined
4 Aug 2009
Messages
646
Location
Ilkeston
I don't think this exactly what happend though.

A friend of mine spoke to the driver, and this is what realy happend.

The girl got on the bus, and was indeed 20p short, she said 'I'm 20p short, can you wait whilst I go to the cash point?'
The driver said yes, I'll give you 5 minuites (until 10 past the hour). Now he already had a bus full of rowdy drunks at this time. He waited until quater past, at this point the girl had not yet returned, and the other passengers were getting rowdy. So for his own saftey he decided to depart.
He also said, if the girl wouldn't have said anything about the cash point, and just said I'm 20p short, he would have let her on - it was the last bus of the night after all.

So that is the drivers side of the story.

Feel free to discuss/argue, but I know what the trent barton drivers are like and I am sure he would have let her on for the sake of 20p if she hadn't mentioned the cash point.
It was a terrible thing what happend to this poor girl. But I beleive the bus driver is free from blame.
 

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,484
Location
Glasgow
Well, the Mail are claiming that she pleaded for eight minutes with the driver/passengers for the 20p, but it wouldn't be the first time that the press have embellished/changed/made up a story. I guess the CCTV would be able to confirm who's side of the story was more accurate?
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
I don't think this exactly what happend though.

A friend of mine spoke to the driver, and this is what realy happend.

The girl got on the bus, and was indeed 20p short, she said 'I'm 20p short, can you wait whilst I go to the cash point?'
The driver said yes, I'll give you 5 minuites (until 10 past the hour). Now he already had a bus full of rowdy drunks at this time. He waited until quater past, at this point the girl had not yet returned, and the other passengers were getting rowdy. So for his own saftey he decided to depart.
He also said, if the girl wouldn't have said anything about the cash point, and just said I'm 20p short, he would have let her on - it was the last bus of the night after all.

So that is the drivers side of the story.

Feel free to discuss/argue, but I know what the trent barton drivers are like and I am sure he would have let her on for the sake of 20p if she hadn't mentioned the cash point.
It was a terrible thing what happend to this poor girl. But I beleive the bus driver is free from blame.

Well that puts matters in a different perspective.

There are always two sides to the story, usually not all of the facts appear in the media. Yet we always have people jumping to conclusions. If the real facts emerge they can often look a bit foolish then.

Sadly, employees are often unable to give their side of the story, so the real facts of an incident are usually only known to those invovled in any investigation, and sometimes it is a case of one person's word against another. But that can mean that one of those involved is castigated in the media without good cause.
 

SS4

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2011
Messages
8,589
Location
Birmingham
I don't understand how jobsworth gained its negative connotations, surely all it means is that the rules are enforced by the letter of the book (which means fairly)

It goes without saying that the girl is the main victim but remember the bus driver is a victim too; not of a crime but it's entirely possible he'll be proverbially sacrificed to improve TB's PR status and consequently unlikely to get another job driving buses for the foreseeable future if at all. Not to mention the mental anguish he'll likely suffer knowing he could have stopped it for want of 20p. Hindsight is always 20/20

The girl got on the bus, and was indeed 20p short, she said 'I'm 20p short, can you wait whilst I go to the cash point?'
The driver said yes, I'll give you 5 minuites (until 10 past the hour). Now he already had a bus full of rowdy drunks at this time. He waited until quater past, at this point the girl had not yet returned, and the other passengers were getting rowdy. So for his own saftey he decided to depart.
He also said, if the girl wouldn't have said anything about the cash point, and just said I'm 20p short, he would have let her on - it was the last bus of the night after all.

Sounds plausible to me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well that puts matters in a different perspective.

There are always two sides to the story, usually not all of the facts appear in the media. Yet we always have people jumping to conclusions. If the real facts emerge they can often look a bit foolish then.

Sadly, employees are often unable to give their side of the story, so the real facts of an incident are usually only known to those invovled in any investigation, and sometimes it is a case of one person's word against another. But that can mean that one of those involved is castigated in the media without good cause.

Hit the nail on the head there. The media have long given up on showing the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in favour of sensationalism :(

The Daily Mail et al have gone for the driver because he's an easy target and it's adds a new dimension to the editorially common (and therefore by extension editorially dull) rape story.

Do we know if the driver was/spoke English? If not then it's even more reason for the DM to blame the driver.
 
Last edited:

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
I don't understand how jobsworth gained its negative connotations, surely all it means is that the rules are enforced by the letter of the book (which means fairly)

It goes without saying that the girl is the main victim but remember the bus driver is a victim too; not of a crime but it's entirely possible he'll be proverbially sacrificed to improve TB's PR status and consequently unlikely to get another job driving buses for the foreseeable future if at all. Not to mention the mental anguish he'll likely suffer knowing he could have stopped it for want of 20p. Hindsight is always 20/20

Sounds plausible to me.

It sound splausible to me to.

I think you can blame Esther Rantzen and That's Life for furthering the use of the phrase Jobsworth and it's use as an insult. I have no doubt that it was intended as such in this thread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top