Trespass incident at Manchester Piccadilly (11/03)

[AlterEgo]

I work on the basis that if you take a hard line on the smaller matters, the level of overall obedience improves. So much low level crime is ignored, or even accepted.

That would be a naive approach when it comes to protest.

People keep going on about "Kurds vs Daesh" as though repeating it will make me care - it's certainly something some people are passionate about, and that's fine. I respect that. I don't intend to stifle anyone's opinons or right to protest legally and peacefully. But my opinion is that other countries fighting between themselves is their own problem.

Neither of the two parties is a country and if you don’t care about it, that’s fine.

Just pipe down then and don’t sit there passively judging some rather desperate people protesting about their friends, relatives or countrymen getting murdered while our country watches it happen.

'Little disruption'? Tell that to all the people stuck on trains.

I don't think they will have won any sympathy for their cause from this silly little stunt.

I don’t think their protest was aimed at evoking sympathy but rather highlighting the issue in the first place.

With some luck lots of photos WERE taken, by the police, of protesters. Over the next few weeks doors will be knocked on and ringleaders arrested.

Exactly - it is unthinkable that the police will take *no action*. They will, but it isn’t practical to just launch a net over them at the station and drag them to the nearest cop shop.

I’m sure a few of them will end up in the local news for trespass or worse.

 

[Robertj21a]

Well he stated:



I pointed out that the above is irrelevant in the eyes of the law in this country.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Good heavens, I'm staggered by some of the comments on this thread. None of the people were in any real danger as far as I can see. They won't have the same fear of railway tracks that we have in the UK.
There's been a ridiculous over-reaction to suggest that the child should be taken into care - Really ? Unbelievable if any sensible person truly believes that.
I despair with some people.

 

[whhistle]

Probably not a tenable position, but if it were up to me I would be putting out a warning that in future OLE will be left live and trains will continue to run, anyone on the track is there at their own risk and accepts responsibility for the consequences.

Like in India...

People need to learn self-responsibility.
If you tresspass on the tracks and get hurt, no doubt the person will try and find someone else to blame.

It would only take a couple of people to be knocked out of the way by a slower moving train for many to start leaving.

 

[Jonfun]

Neither of the two parties is a country and if you don’t care about it, that’s fine.

Just pipe down then and don’t sit there passively judging some rather desperate people protesting about their friends, relatives or countrymen getting murdered while our country watches it happen.

It's clear you disagree with my opinion, but I'm afraid I disagree with yours just as much. It's clear our politics differ greatly. Despite this I haven't once told you to "pipe down", so I don't expect that from you either.

 

[Robertj21a]

Just reading the comments on this thread again (I couldn't believe some the first time), I'm struck by the apparent lack of understanding of general issues outside of 'The Railway Bubble'.
People who spout off about things which they clearly don't understand, have never experienced and who can't see a world that exists away from the railway.
I appreciate that this is a rail forum but I'm afraid it really does highlight the mentality, naivety and/or simple immaturity of too many contributors.

 

[Iskra]

Good heavens, I'm staggered by some of the comments on this thread. None of the people were in any real danger as far as I can see. They won't have the same fear of railway tracks that we have in the UK.
There's been a ridiculous over-reaction to suggest that the child should be taken into care - Really ? Unbelievable if any sensible person truly believes that.
I despair with some people.

Surely the first person(s) who jumped onto railway tracks, while trains were running was in real danger?

The number of people trying to excuse law-breaking stupidity baffles me.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's clear you disagree with my opinion, but I'm afraid I disagree with yours just as much. It's clear our politics differ greatly. Despite this I haven't once told you to "pipe down", so I don't expect that from you either.

I’ve said it’s perfectly fine not to care about any of the issues; I don’t care about 95% of causes that land under my nose either. You also don’t appear to know about it either, explaining your lack of interest in the fact that it’s not your business if two countries want to fight each other.

It’s fine not to care about something. We are bombarded with “issues” to care about.

But if you really don’t care about a cause, and have no opinion and no dog in the fight, it’s not your place to judge those who do care and take a side. This is because, when you don’t care about something, you don’t know about the issue and nor are you in a position to empathise with those who do care about it.

That’s why you should pipe down with the judging. By all means contribute and say you don’t care though, or contribute by saying you’d be perfectly happy for a riot to take place so “there’s more ammo to prosecute them with”.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just reading the comments on this thread again (I couldn't believe some the first time), I'm struck by the apparent lack of understanding of general issues outside of 'The Railway Bubble'.
People who spout off about things which they clearly don't understand, have never experienced and who can't see a world that exists away from the railway.
I appreciate that this is a rail forum but I'm afraid it really does highlight the mentality, naivety and/or simple immaturity of too many contributors.

It’s been a real good read. The reactionary and indignant comments have been cracking, although I could have predicted all of them. This thread writes itself. Classic RailUK.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A comparison about cultural ignorance if I may.

In Britain we consider it totally normal to cross the road against the red man if there is no traffic approaching. However in many countries it is not only not the done thing, it's actively illegal.

When I was visiting Germany as a 16-year-old, I went to cross a street - a very long street empty both ways as far as the eye could see - and was roughly hauled back by my German sister-in-law as the light wasn't green. We all had to stand there patiently for nearly a minute until the green man appeared.

While it's a lot less common these days now they are moving to be a high platform country, in the 1990s you were probably more likely to see a German person strolling across the tracks at a major railway station than you were to see them crossing the road against a red signal. Genuinely.

 

[DarloRich]

Good grief.

I hope to god that child is being taken into care by social services.

That isnt going to happen. As I said Social Services often lack the resources to intervene in cases of prolonged abuse and neglect especially in the large metropolitan areas. I hope ( and sadly it is only hope these days) that those children at serious risk of harm are removed. The challenges many social services teams face in protecting vulnerable children are both shocking and scandalous.

if this family is otherwise "decent" the social services will not be very interested. There might be a case review if the family are known. Might.

(BTW - none of that removes the fact that this is a particularity brainless act worthy of censorship.)

It’s been a real good read. The reactionary and indignant comments have been cracking, although I could have predicted all of them. This thread writes itself. Classic RailUK.

surely not

 

[Bromley boy]

Good heavens, I'm staggered by some of the comments on this thread. None of the people were in any real danger as far as I can see. They won't have the same fear of railway tracks that we have in the UK.
There's been a ridiculous over-reaction to suggest that the child should be taken into care - Really ? Unbelievable if any sensible person truly believes that.
I despair with some people.

Whether or not they have the same fear is irrelevant. They’re in the U.K. and are therefore bound by U.K. laws. Do you think for one minute those people actually knew whether or not they were in any real danger?! They just didn’t think full stop.

It’s equally unbelievable to many of us (surprise surprise it’s those who actually work on the railway who condemn this) that some posters apparently believe it is acceptable to take children onto railway tracks as an act of protest. Yes, in my opinion people who would do something so breathtakingly stupid are unfit to be in charge of children.

Why is it difficult to grasp the concept that people might simultaneously support the protesters’ cause (as I do) and condemn their actions?

 

[GB]

I get the feeling that some posters believe you can trespass (railway or otherwise) providing their views are holier than thou. I bet those same posters would be chastising the local scrouts who trespass daily or those that jump barriers/lights/platforms etc etc.

Unless you are saving a life thats in imminent danger there is no reason to be on the line and there is certainly no reason to take children on the line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s equally unbelievable to many of us (surprise surprise it’s those who actually work on the railway who condemn this) that some posters apparently believe it is acceptable to take children onto railway tracks as an act of protest. Yes, in my opinion people who would do something so breathtakingly stupid are unfit to be in charge of children.

Why is it difficult to grasp the concept that people might simultaneously support the protesters’ cause (as I do) and condemn their actions?

It was a stupid thing to do. It is however questionable whether removing their children actually makes sense; the impact this can have on a child is massive even if done with good intentions so it really does have to be a last resort.

Parents are putting their children at this level of risk daily e.g. by driving dangerously with them in the car, for example.

 

[yorkie]

I get the feeling that some posters believe you can trespass (railway or otherwise) providing their views are holier than thou.

I do not believe I have seen any posts containing such content, but if you wish to disagree with what someone has written, please do feel free to quote their post and state your counter-argument.

It’s equally unbelievable to many of us (surprise surprise it’s those who actually work on the railway who condemn this) that some posters apparently believe it is acceptable to take children onto railway tracks as an act of protest.

Can you provide a quote please? I must have missed where someone said that.

Why is it difficult to grasp the concept that people might simultaneously support the protesters’ cause (as I do) and condemn their actions?

I don't think anyone has any problem with their actions being condemned, but people are right to point out that your expectation of children being taken into care is unrealistic and not actually going to happen. I'm not sure if you know many children in care, or anyone who works with social services, but if you talked to people with knowledge in this area I am sure they could confirm this.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's clear you disagree with my opinion, but I'm afraid I disagree with yours just as much. It's clear our politics differ greatly. Despite this I haven't once told you to "pipe down", so I don't expect that from you either.

Though you seem to wear your ignorance of their cause as a badge of honour, and that mentality is completely baffling to me... though I guess that's off-topic anyway.

 

[SilentGrade]

It would only take a couple of people to be knocked out of the way by a slower moving train for many to start leaving.

Are you seriously advocating leaving trains running in order to intentionally run people over and injure them? I'm hoping this is sarcasm

While we're talking about the use of the law in order to punish these people, I'd suggest the action you talk about would be viewed much more seriously in the eyes of the law.

 

[2HAP]

View attachment 43784 Whatever your political motivation, there is no excuse for this

When it comes to arrests and charges, don't forget the charge of supporting a proscribed terrorist organisation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When it comes to arrests and charges, don't forget the charge of supporting a proscribed terrorist organisation.

Eh? They were protesting against ISIS, not for it.

 

[2HAP]

Suggest you look at that red flag, and see who it represents. Come back to me when you have the answer.

 

[AndyPJG]

Now moved onto the Humber bridge:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-43373787

Kurdish protesters close Humber Bridge
Pro-Kurdish protesters have forced the closure of the southbound carriageway of the Humber Bridge.

The action is linked to demonstrations over the weekend at major railway stations in London and Manchester.

The campaigners say they are trying to draw attention to Turkey's military offensive on the Kurdish-controlled town of Afrin in Syria.

The protest began at about 10:30 GMT and ended 20 minutes later, allowing the bridge to reopen....more

 

[edwin_m]

Eh? They were protesting against ISIS, not for it.

PKK is also proscribed. I don't know enough to have a view on whether this is appropriate or not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

PKK is also proscribed. I don't know enough to have a view on whether this is appropriate or not.

Thanks for the explanation, this makes sense.

Suggest you look at that red flag, and see who it represents. Come back to me when you have the answer.

No thanks for being sanctimonious rather than giving an explanation as edwin_m helpfully did.

 

[Mugby]

Just a couple of questions which may already have been asked (I havn't read all 10 pages!)

How did the protesters get onto the tracks, did they storm the gatelines en-masse and force their way through?

Were trains being turned at other stations, such as Stockport from the South, or Stalybridge from the East, for example?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Were trains being turned at other stations, such as Stockport from the South, or Stalybridge from the East, for example?

Yes. I did notice at Euston yesterday evening that there were a few heavily delayed arrivals shown as from Stockport. Bet the 192s were busy!

 

[Bromley boy]

Can you provide a quote please? I must have missed where someone said that.

Someone stated above that they were in no real danger. That may or may not have been the case, but comes pretty close to a “no harm done, so what does it matter?” type justification.

people are right to point out that your expectation of children being taken into care is unrealistic and not actually going to happen. I'm not sure if you know many children in care, or anyone who works with social services, but if you talked to people with knowledge in this area I am sure they could confirm this.

Ok, I will concede that my previous comment was perhaps a little OTT, but I certainly hold a very low opinion indeed of someone who would involve their child in such a protest. In my view it does call into question their judgement as parents and their fitness to be responsible for children.

 

[greyman42]

The protesters who decided to take their children onto the tracks should lose custody and any who are not UK citizens should be deported.

Spot on.

 

[DarloRich]

oh dear. Perhaps you are unaware of the funding challenge local authorities face in relation to child protection. This will barely register on their radar especially in a large metropolitan area like Manchester.

But YEAH WAY TO GO!!

 

[greyman42]

A simple question. Why did these people take children to a protest that involved trespass on the railway?

 

[Jonfun]

This thread is getting far too personal now - at no point during any of my posts have I made personal attacks on any poster yet because my opinion happens to differ from a number of other members it seems fair game to make personal jibes.

I fully respect the right of people to hold a differing opinion to mine but calling people "ignorant" and "naive" is inappropriate. If you support the Kurds, good on you. Stand up for your opinion by all means. But things aren't always black and white, and other people may not hold the same views.

 

[Holly]

A simple question. Why did these people take children to a protest that involved trespass on the railway?

A simple answer - in most other countries it is allowed to walk on the railway provided it is safe to do so. And these protesters likely had foreign nexuses, or they wouldn't have been in that protest and thereby used to foreign practices.
To be clear, I'm not justifying what they did, merely explaining why they did it.