Trespass Incident - Impressed with c2C Driver

[Llanigraham]

A person on the track and a train approaching as in the Chartham incident, no time to tell signallers or anybody else. Take action or do nothing, your call:roll:

Who said anything about doing nothing? Only you!
As has been said there are procedures and actions that can be taken SAFELY. Going onto the track is NOT safe and risks more than one death.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Elm Park station does not have platforms on the C2C line so walking to that part of the tracks from the platform would involve crossing a 4th rail electrified line.

 

[Antman]

Who said anything about doing nothing? Only you!
As has been said there are procedures and actions that can be taken SAFELY. Going onto the track is NOT safe and risks more than one death.

Oh dear, I'll try one more time!

In the case at Chartham there was somebody on the track and a train was approaching, what do you do? You obviously haven't got time to call anybody have you? Now I don't what I would do but obviously there are two choices, take action or do nothing!

 

[alxndr]

Oh dear, I'll try one more time!



In the case at Chartham there was somebody on the track and a train was approaching, what do you do? You obviously haven't to call anybody have you? Now I don't what I would do but obviously there are two choices, take action or do nothing!

We've already been over this; option C, try to signal to the driver (who may well have already seen the individual and applied emergency brakes and sounded the horn as appropriate).

No one is going to say to go for the heroic foolish rescue attempt, especially not on a public forum, when it could contribute to unnecessary fatalities.

 

[Darandio]

In the case at Chartham there was somebody on the track and a train was approaching, what do you do? You obviously haven't got time to call anybody have you? Now I don't what I would do but obviously there are two choices, take action or do nothing!

Nobody knows until it happens, it will always be a specific set of circumstances.

I've really got no idea why there is an argument about this.

 

[SPADTrap]

Oh dear, I'll try one more time!

In the case at Chartham there was somebody on the track and a train was approaching, what do you do? You obviously haven't got time to call anybody have you? Now I don't what I would do but obviously there are two choices, take action or do nothing!

Perhaps using an example where the assisting person was also killed isn't the best illustrator of your point? That could be what is confusing the issue.

Posters are taking issue with your inference that the only action from your 'take action or do nothing' is to dive onto the line in an attempt to save the person, maybe?

 

[Antman]

Nobody knows until it happens, it will always be a specific set of circumstances.

I've really got no idea why there is an argument about this.

I've been making the same point as you..................but for reasons best known to themselves some people want to turn it into an argument. Anyway I've said all I have to say on the subject.

 

[Chris M]

And the railway has an inbuilt system where that can be done, as long as the signallers are told. :roll:

As a lay person, how do you contact the signallers in this situation?
The station is unstaffed.
You have no radio, no internal phones, no external phone numbers, the help point on the platform (if there is one) wont connect you to the signallers (the one time I've had cause to push the emergency button (on London Underground) the call was answered after nearly 2 minutes by someone who identified themselves as a police officer).
You could try 999, but they would presumably not know the relevant signallers to contact and so would have to go indirectly.
My first thought would probably be the BTP - would they be any quicker?

If there was a signal post telephone visible I would use that in an emergency (or something that might be) even if I had to go lineside to access it. This would be trespassing on the railway but I'd hope it would be excused in the circumstances.

 

[carriageline]

I would only suggest an SPT if it was on the platform end, or very close to it. A driver on an adjacent line could be used. If there's a ticket office they should have the number.

Failing that, call 999 and they would/should contact the appropriate route control, then could filter it down to the signaller.

When it's an unstaffed platform, there isn't a lot you can do.

 

[AlexNL]

You could try 999, but they would presumably not know the relevant signallers to contact and so would have to go indirectly.
My first thought would probably be the BTP - would they be any quicker?

I'd say 999 or BTP are your best chances. They'll know how to route your report and how to take appropriate actions - they're trained for it, aren't they?

 

[Llanigraham]

Oh dear, I'll try one more time!

In the case at Chartham there was somebody on the track and a train was approaching, what do you do? You obviously haven't got time to call anybody have you? Now I don't what I would do but obviously there are two choices, take action or do nothing!

And you obviously don't get it!!

The first Rule of any situation is NOT to put yourself in danger.
Going onto the track is doing exactly that.

 

[LAX54]

Never, Ever go on the line if you know there is a train close by. (in fact NEVER go on the line AT ALL ! ) Get the attention of the Driver by any means even waving arms / pointing etc, the driver will make an emergency stop, and hopefully stop in time, if not, then yes that could result in ONE fatality, which is far better than a certain 2 ! and think of the Driver, Rail Staff etc if there are two killed where there need not have been.

 

[meridian2]

So basically two people escort a distressed person on the line, either one of them putting themselves in grave danger, and on one hand we've got rail staff lambasted for adhering too rigidly to the 'rule book', and another for saying it's common sense for two people to put themselves in mortal danger.

I know which side I trust in this case and I applaud the staff on the train for being in an impossible situation and it coming to a relatively straightforward outcome. I do not understand people on here who say it's entirely justifiable for two people, completely willing, to put themselves in such an entirely avoidable predicament.

 

[GB]

There is too much black and white in this thread when real life is not so and I have to say this world would be an even worse place if there wasn't people willing to risk their own lives for others....a risk that is their choice, and only their choice to make.

In any case ill leave you with the below video showing a woman putting herself in danger to save a young child....you decide if she was right or wrong but I certainly know where I stand on it.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/schoolgirl-saved-being-hit-train-6226376

 

[Llanigraham]

When teaching First Aid we still use the acronym DR ABC:

D: DANGER. Are you putting yourself in danger of injury or death when treating this casualty? If you are then DO NOT approach and remove the DANGER first.
R: RESPONSE.........etc.

That acronym applies to any situation and not just First Aid!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is too much black and white in this thread when real life is not so and I have to say this world would be an even worse place if there wasn't people willing to risk their own lives for others....a risk that is their choice, and only their choice to make.

In any case ill leave you with the below video showing a woman putting herself in danger to save a young child....you decide if she was right or wrong but I certainly know where I stand on it.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/schoolgirl-saved-being-hit-train-6226376

And?
Sorry but all that woman did was to PULL the child up onto the platform. She did not go onto the tracks. Therefore it has nothing to do with the situation in this thread.

 

[Quakkerillo]

And?
Sorry but all that woman did was to PULL the child up onto the platform. She did not go onto the tracks. Therefore it has nothing to do with the situation in this thread.

If she hadn't managed to pull the girl up on the platform, but the girl had a strong grip on her arm, she could've been pulled under the train with the girl.
This is still putting yourself into some risk to save someones life, and this behaviour surely won't be in the UK railway employee safety handbook.

 

[GB]

Um, you don't have to be on the tracks to be hit by a train. She could have also lost her balance and ended up on the track.:roll:

The crux of the latter part of this thread is about putting yourself in danger to help others is it not...

 

[ainsworth74]

I think this thread has run it's course and we just seem to be going around and around in circles.

If anyone has anything substantially new to add to the thread please feel free to contact a member of the Staff Team otherwise this thread is locked.