Trespassers Leeds, 30/05/19

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by gimmea50anyday, 30 May 2019.

  1. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Is it possible to be both shocked and completely unsurprised at the same time? It's a tragedy waiting to happen, bluntly.
     
  2. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    I disagree. The lack of resource in community mental health care means the police are often used by the NHS as first responder. Because there are too few people to intervene early ( and it can take 6-8 months plus for an assessment referral in my local area) the numbers of people in crisis have increased meaning they come into contact with the police more often.
     
  3. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    I know. The answer, of course, is more resources for both the police and the NHS. Nevertheless, I stand by my point that it's wrong to criminalise people because they are unwell.
     
  4. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    i agree. However i would also point out that it isnt an open and shut case when these people come to court. Any half decent brief is going to get an experts reporting showing the illness and setting out how this caused the behaviour.
     
  5. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Without getting into funding for legal aid in the criminal courts - which many if not most of these people will rely upon for said defence - surely it would be better to divert them away from the criminal justice system altogether, though, other than in the most serious cases where there is violence/serious harm to others. I do wonder about how the CPS apply the public interest test in these instance, because it feels like something is seriously amiss.
     
  6. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    What evidence is there that this was someone who was suffering from mental illness, depression or whatever? Or are we jumping to conclusions?

    Suggestion I have heard is a protestor (climate change / ecomentalist type), which would explain the court appearance. That is very, very different.
     
  7. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    If only. These days, those charged would be on social media in seconds to play the victim - with loads of support from those who would say it infringed on their human rights/free speech.

    I recall a lady that moaned at staff shouting at people to evacuate a station (elsewhere). She had the nerve to stand there and complain at how she was being spoken to (while failing to comply). I have no doubt she probably then wrote a complaint to customer services, Twitter and Facebook....
     
  8. Mitchell Hurd

    Mitchell Hurd Member

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    Obviously there was more important issues at stake but I'm not surprised you would have had diesel fumes come through the windows - engine's on for longer than it should be (I know it's not easy when you've disruption though) plus a Pacer train isn't exactly environmentally friendly.

    This is why I'll always try and sit away from the exhaust end of the Pacers (towards the end where the very front or rear coach is). May I ask did you report this to Northern who would not have wanted a 2-car train full of passengers to want the fumes come in?
     
  9. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Absolutely. I did say earlier, but it's worth reiterating, that, in saying the things I've said, I'm commenting on the way these incidents are dealt with in general, and when they are of the suicide attempt / mental health flavour.
    Whilst people obviously have a right to protest, and to protest disruptively to a limited extent, posing a risk to safety shouldn't be tolerated and you're right that would entail a different kind of response.
     
  10. AndyPJG

    AndyPJG Member

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-48720988
     
  11. johntea

    johntea Established Member

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    Six months seems a bit of a poor sentence, although 'no fixed abode' suggests he might have actually been trying to end up in the nick anyway!
     
  12. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Bearing in mind he’ll only be doing 10 - 12 weeks in HMP Leeds (or similar) and the rest on licence.
     
  13. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Myers was, it would seem, charged under Section 36 Malicious Damage Act 1861 with, as the BBC article stated, "obstructing engines or carriages on railways," having been assessed after the incident as not suffering from a mental illness. This is effectively a strict liability offence; the prosecution do not have to prove intent, just that the defendant did, beyond reasonable doubt, do the act which is the basis of the charge. Myers pleaded guilty, so there was no trial. A guilty plea was probably wise, given the number of witnesses!

    The maximum sentence permitted for this offence is 2 years custody. Myers pleaded guilty at the first opportunity, which attracts a one third discount. That automatically brings the maximum sentence down to 16 months. From reporting of HHJ Burns' sentencing remarks*, it also seems that Myers' mitigation (personal circumstances) was accepted, as was the fact that there was no malicious intent. Both of these factors will have further reduced the maximum sentence.

    Taking all that into account, and in comparison with other cases where the charge has been the same**, six months immediate custody is actually pretty consistent with what would have been expected.

    * Sentencing remarks reported here: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...nto-tracks-at-leeds-railway-station-1-9834624
    ** Details of some previous cases: https://www.thelawpages.com/criminal-offence/Obstructing-engines-or-carriages-on-railways-655-15.law
     
    Last edited: 21 Jun 2019
  14. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Veteran Member

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    Careful... You can't go around recklessly making reasoned and sensible posts about the Criminal Justice system on here!
     

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