Trespassers Leeds, 30/05/19

[Mathew S]

Indeed, only on Tuesday afternoon a woman was taken from Bache station, near Chester, by police to a “place of safety” after appearing distressed. Unfortunately, the same evening she was back and ended up under a Merseyrail EMU.

Newspaper report here:

https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/new...hamLiveWhatsOn1&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter

I assume the “Place of safety” in this case was either not secure or she was discharged. Chester hospital A&E is only about 5-10 walk from Bache Station.

Is it possible to be both shocked and completely unsurprised at the same time? It's a tragedy waiting to happen, bluntly.

 

[DarloRich]

If they were so pressed for time and resources, you would have thought that they would jump at the chance not to have to go to court and prosecute someone and pass them into the NHS instead? I don't doubt that resources and funding are an issue for the police, but in these cases I am pretty convinced this is deliberate statistic-boosting by the police. These are easy convictions that make their stats look good, and screw the fact that they're destroying people's lives in the process.

I disagree. The lack of resource in community mental health care means the police are often used by the NHS as first responder. Because there are too few people to intervene early ( and it can take 6-8 months plus for an assessment referral in my local area) the numbers of people in crisis have increased meaning they come into contact with the police more often.

 

[Mathew S]

I disagree. The lack of resource in community mental health care means the police are often used by the NHS as first responder. Because there are too few people to intervene early ( and it can take 6-8 months plus for an assessment referral in my local area) the numbers of people in crisis have increased meaning they come into contact with the police more often.

I know. The answer, of course, is more resources for both the police and the NHS. Nevertheless, I stand by my point that it's wrong to criminalise people because they are unwell.

 

[DarloRich]

I know. The answer, of course, is more resources for both the police and the NHS. Nevertheless, I stand by my point that it's wrong to criminalise people because they are unwell.

i agree. However i would also point out that it isnt an open and shut case when these people come to court. Any half decent brief is going to get an experts reporting showing the illness and setting out how this caused the behaviour.

 

[Mathew S]

i agree. However i would also point out that it isnt an open and shut case when these people come to court. Any half decent brief is going to get an experts reporting showing the illness and setting out how this caused the behaviour.

Without getting into funding for legal aid in the criminal courts - which many if not most of these people will rely upon for said defence - surely it would be better to divert them away from the criminal justice system altogether, though, other than in the most serious cases where there is violence/serious harm to others. I do wonder about how the CPS apply the public interest test in these instance, because it feels like something is seriously amiss.

 

[43096]

What evidence is there that this was someone who was suffering from mental illness, depression or whatever? Or are we jumping to conclusions?

Suggestion I have heard is a protestor (climate change / ecomentalist type), which would explain the court appearance. That is very, very different.

 

[jon0844]

Reiterate all that. As regards 'hecklers', if that sort of thing becomes common then, to nip it in the bud, an arrest or two (plenty of laws/public order offences to choose from) with maximum publicity and an appearance before the local beaks would work wonders: even better, a Community Service Order penalty to work with the vulnerable.

If only. These days, those charged would be on social media in seconds to play the victim - with loads of support from those who would say it infringed on their human rights/free speech.

I recall a lady that moaned at staff shouting at people to evacuate a station (elsewhere). She had the nerve to stand there and complain at how she was being spoken to (while failing to comply). I have no doubt she probably then wrote a complaint to customer services, Twitter and Facebook....

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I was stuck on a two carriage Northern 144 Pacer on the viaduct at Quarry Hill (0650 Selby-Leeds service) from 7:20am until they allowed us into Platform 7 at 9am. Crammed full with people standing (due to only being two carriages), heating on (due to being a 144), and diesel fumes coming in through the windows. Credit to our guard for giving us updates whenever he could though. Got to work 2.5 hours late, but that's the first big delay I've had for a very long time.

Eventually we were told we'd be turning back to Crossgates, then once moving that changed to the news that they'd opened some platforms but we should leave by the emergency station exit quickly and quietly on the instructions of the Police.

My knees and back hurt from Pacer seats, but at least I wasn't standing. Hopefully the disruption (chatting on my phone to friends stuck on trains near York and Doncaster so it seems quite widespread) is resolved reasonably once the Police negotiators have done their bit.

Obviously there was more important issues at stake but I'm not surprised you would have had diesel fumes come through the windows - engine's on for longer than it should be (I know it's not easy when you've disruption though) plus a Pacer train isn't exactly environmentally friendly.

This is why I'll always try and sit away from the exhaust end of the Pacers (towards the end where the very front or rear coach is). May I ask did you report this to Northern who would not have wanted a 2-car train full of passengers to want the fumes come in?

 

[Mathew S]

What evidence is there that this was someone who was suffering from mental illness, depression or whatever? Or are we jumping to conclusions?

Suggestion I have heard is a protestor (climate change / ecomentalist type), which would explain the court appearance. That is very, very different.

Absolutely. I did say earlier, but it's worth reiterating, that, in saying the things I've said, I'm commenting on the way these incidents are dealt with in general, and when they are of the suicide attempt / mental health flavour.
Whilst people obviously have a right to protest, and to protest disruptively to a limited extent, posing a risk to safety shouldn't be tolerated and you're right that would entail a different kind of response.

 

[AndyPJG]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-48720988

Leeds station: Peter Myers jailed over gantry rush hour chaos

• 
  Image copyrightYAPPAPP

Image captionMyers brought Leeds railway station to a standstill when he climbed on the gantry
A man who disrupted thousands of passenger journeys and cost rail firms over £1m has been jailed for six months.

Peter Myers, 36, of no fixed abode, climbed over a gantry at Leeds railway station causing delays to services for about nine hours on 30 May.

He refused to initially come off the gantry and trained police negotiators were called to the scene.

Judge Colin Burn jailed Myers for disrupting hundreds of services.

Myers had previously admitted the charge of obstructing an engine or carriage by using the railway unlawfully.

• More stories across Yorkshire

Myers had been "sitting precariously on a gantry" at the station as the morning rush hour was in full flow.

Image captionPassengers were advised to leave the station because Myers had climbed over a gantry
He repeatedly sat down and then stood up while moving along the gantry.

Police negotiators were eventually called in and Myers was taken for an assessment but found not to have mental health issues.

While the station was closed to rail activity during his time on the gantry, there were 319 cancellations, 169 part-cancellations and 171 hours of rail delays.

In a statement after the sentencing Network Rail said: "We welcome this sentence as this was an act which put his life in danger, delayed passengers and caused widespread disruption to services."

Network Rail said overhead electric wires were switched off at 07:30 BST while police safely "removed [a man] from harm's way" just before 09:30.

Delays and cancellations affected stations across the country, including York, Sheffield, Plymouth and Newcastle.

Network Rail said most services were back to normal by 16:00.

Image captionStaff handed out bottles of water to delayed passengers
More than 72,000 people use the station every day, with an average of 25,000 passengers during the morning peak period.

Leeds is the third busiest railway station in Great Britain outside London, according to Department for Transport figures.

 

[johntea]

Six months seems a bit of a poor sentence, although 'no fixed abode' suggests he might have actually been trying to end up in the nick anyway!

 

[Saperstein]

Bearing in mind he’ll only be doing 10 - 12 weeks in HMP Leeds (or similar) and the rest on licence.

 

[Mathew S]

Six months seems a bit of a poor sentence, although 'no fixed abode' suggests he might have actually been trying to end up in the nick anyway!

Myers was, it would seem, charged under Section 36 Malicious Damage Act 1861 with, as the BBC article stated, "obstructing engines or carriages on railways," having been assessed after the incident as not suffering from a mental illness. This is effectively a strict liability offence; the prosecution do not have to prove intent, just that the defendant did, beyond reasonable doubt, do the act which is the basis of the charge. Myers pleaded guilty, so there was no trial. A guilty plea was probably wise, given the number of witnesses!

The maximum sentence permitted for this offence is 2 years custody. Myers pleaded guilty at the first opportunity, which attracts a one third discount. That automatically brings the maximum sentence down to 16 months. From reporting of HHJ Burns' sentencing remarks*, it also seems that Myers' mitigation (personal circumstances) was accepted, as was the fact that there was no malicious intent. Both of these factors will have further reduced the maximum sentence.

Taking all that into account, and in comparison with other cases where the charge has been the same**, six months immediate custody is actually pretty consistent with what would have been expected.

* Sentencing remarks reported here: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...nto-tracks-at-leeds-railway-station-1-9834624
** Details of some previous cases: https://www.thelawpages.com/criminal-offence/Obstructing-engines-or-carriages-on-railways-655-15.law

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Myers was, it would seem, charged under Section 36 Malicious Damage Act 1861 with, as the BBC article stated, "obstructing engines or carriages on railways," having been assessed after the incident as not suffering from a mental illness. This is effectively a strict liability offence; the prosecution do not have to prove intent, just that the defendant did, beyond reasonable doubt, do the act which is the basis of the charge. Myers pleaded guilty, so there was no trial. A guilty plea was probably wise, given the number of witnesses!

The maximum sentence permitted for this offence is 2 years custody. Myers pleaded guilty at the first opportunity, which attracts a one third discount. That automatically brings the maximum sentence down to 16 months. From reporting of HHJ Burns' sentencing remarks*, it also seems that Myers' mitigation (personal circumstances) was accepted, as was the fact that there was no malicious intent. Both of these factors will have further reduced the maximum sentence.

Taking all that into account, and in comparison with other cases where the charge has been the same**, six months immediate custody is actually pretty consistent with what would have been expected.

* Sentencing remarks reported here: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...nto-tracks-at-leeds-railway-station-1-9834624
** Details of some previous cases: https://www.thelawpages.com/criminal-offence/Obstructing-engines-or-carriages-on-railways-655-15.law

Careful... You can't go around recklessly making reasoned and sensible posts about the Criminal Justice system on here!