Trial of of paper receipts for tickets issued on board the train

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Bungle73

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Traditional orange train tickets will soon be a thing of the past as companies look to change their ticketing arrangements for passengers around the country.

Arriva is among the first firms to introduce the new shop-style paper receipts instead of the bright card with the rounded corners.

Passengers on the Cardiff-Treherbert line are already receiving the tickets when they purchase them from an onboard inspector carrying the new handheld ticket machines.

An Arriva spokesman told the Mirror: “The ticket itself will contain exactly the same information.

“The big change will be it is no longer printed on the same orange card. What you get will be probably very similar to what you get at a restaurant, a printer paper receipt.

“It will also contain a barcode that allows you to open the ticket barriers.”

Scotrail and Great Western Railway are also believed to be rolling out new types of ticketing this year as companies aim to make travelling more flexible.

A Scotrail spokeswoman told the newspaper the firm was launching a new mobile ticketing service.

“The new equipment will be lighter, faster and able to accept online and contactless payments. We plan to roll it out over the summer,” she said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-to-be-replaced-by-shop-style-paper-receipts/

I don't like the sound of that. I can't see what the point of spending all that money on modifying all the TVMS and barriers is? Card tickets are far more durable. So that means if I buy a Day Travelcard, by the end of the day it's going to be falling apart!
 
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Definitely a bit worrying - I can't imagine these tickets holding up very well at all.

What I think we really need though is some sort of smart ticketing already - and by that I basically mean ITSO needs to be widely available and needs to support some kind of PAYG fares similar to what Oyster offers already.

It's madness that it's 2016 and I still have to queue for a paper ticket in the morning.
 

dgl

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Basically as I understand this is only for tickets brought on the train as it allows smaller and cheaper/more standardize printing machines to be used. Tickets from ticket offices/TVM's will still be the standard orange tickets.
 

chubs

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Definitely a bit worrying - I can't imagine these tickets holding up very well at all.

What I think we really need though is some sort of smart ticketing already - and by that I basically mean ITSO needs to be widely available and needs to support some kind of PAYG fares similar to what Oyster offers already.

It's madness that it's 2016 and I still have to queue for a paper ticket in the morning.

Agreed.

in The Netherlands my chipkaart covers trains, trams, buses and boats from all over the country and all operators.

I know our fares and tickets are far more complicated, but they're so antiquated.
 

bangor-toad

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Here in Northern Ireland that's all you get now.

Standard tickets bought from a ticket office or onboard is printed on what looks to be ordinary receipt roll paper. (We don't have any TVMs). That's for single, day returns or weekly tickets.

The weekly ones seem to survive but I wouldn't think they would last any longer than that. Of course, we don't have any barriers to worry about and just show the tickets whenever needed.

Cheers,
Mr Toad
 

Ze Random One

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Definitely a bit worrying - I can't imagine these tickets holding up very well at all.

What I think we really need though is some sort of smart ticketing already - and by that I basically mean ITSO needs to be widely available and needs to support some kind of PAYG fares similar to what Oyster offers already.

It's madness that it's 2016 and I still have to queue for a paper ticket in the morning.

Fundamentally, ITSO does support Pay-as-you-go; the Nexus "Pop" card can carry PAYG credit, on the Metro you tap in and out like the tube, and your fare is deducted at the end of your journey, with caps applied if you go over the cost of a daysaver (just like oyster). It's not so good on buses, as you still have to ask the driver for a ticket, but the fare can be deducted from your Pop credit, if the operator is participating. I don't think capping applies on buses either. I understand Centro's SWIFT card can also be used for PAYG bus travel.

So the lack of PAYG on national rail operators is a matter of *choice* by the operator, not a fundamental problem with the standard or the technology. They even have working reference implementations to go see.
 

Crossover

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I believe the Valley line chosen to trial this has been done so due to being statistically the branch that sees the smallest number of through tickets away from the area

I have to say when I heard about it, it sounds like a retrograde step (and just as station are fitted with barriers for standard stock and not always barcode readers) - just another complexity to an already complex system
 

HMS Ark Royal

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Bletchleyite

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Barcode readers are solid-state, so easier to maintain than magstripe readers, which really are outdated technology. They also open up the opportunity for mobile ticketing, print at home and all sorts of other options without infrastructure changes.

That seems a good idea to me.

How's about if you buy an off peak ticket from the ticket office it comes on a sheet of A4 with full, easily readable, non-debatable details on validity and permitted routes, for instance?

A real improvement if you ask me. If it saves the railway money too, all the better.
 

dquebec

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Apparently East Midlands Trains are sticking with orange tickets. I was speaking to a Senior Conductor lately who told me they even have a specific manager for the replacement ticket system, strangely based at Norwich...
 

yorksrob

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Right, so we have a paper ticketing system that we've had for thirty years and we want to replace it with..... wait for it....

A flimsier paper ticketing system.

You couldn't make it up.

This reminds me of a few years ago when the banks said they'd be getting rid of cheques. It was then pointed out that they'd still need to develop some form of payment system which people could use without access to technology and could send in the post. That would be a cheque then.
 

Bletchleyite

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Right, so we have a paper ticketing system that we've had for thirty years and we want to replace it with..... wait for it....

A flimsier paper ticketing system.

A more flexible, cheaper, faster paper ticketing system.

This reminds me of a few years ago when the banks said they'd be getting rid of cheques. It was then pointed out that they'd still need to develop some form of payment system which people could use without access to technology and could send in the post. That would be a cheque then.

They lost their nerve, sadly. We could have moved to a system of BACS transfers replacing cheques (i.e. push rather than pull). The Germans have done it for years; most of them don't even know what a cheque is.

It's 2016, there is no need whatsoever for any kind of administration to involve the post. The post is now for shifting goods around.
 

CP165

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Here in Northern Ireland that's all you get now.

Standard tickets bought from a ticket office or onboard is printed on what looks to be ordinary receipt roll paper. (We don't have any TVMs). That's for single, day returns or weekly tickets.

The weekly ones seem to survive but I wouldn't think they would last any longer than that. Of course, we don't have any barriers to worry about and just show the tickets whenever needed.

Cheers,
Mr Toad
Northern Ireland is somewhere I see as ideal to implement smart ticketing with its relatively small, uncomplicated, self - contained network.

A smart card covering trains and buses, all of which operate under Translink (I think), could be very doable
 

deltic

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I recall getting paper receipt type tickets many decades ago, although same colour as the card tickets, when issued by the guard
 

hairyhandedfool

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All I can say is that I do not like the look of it and hope they stay away from Northern

Sorry, you're out of luck, Northern are set to get it as soon as possible.

Allegedly the "tickets" are "thicker and more durable" than "normal receipts" and the "ticket rolls are 30 meters", though I don't know if that is 30 metres of usable roll, or 30 metres total (receipt rolls for the STAR machines are quite long, but STAR asks you to change them with about five metres left on the roll).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I recall getting paper receipt type tickets many decades ago, although same colour as the card tickets, when issued by the guard

SPORTIS tickets. I can't remember exactly when Northern got rid of them, but I think it must have been around 2008/2009 something like that.
 
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Fundamentally, ITSO does support Pay-as-you-go; the Nexus "Pop" card can carry PAYG credit, on the Metro you tap in and out like the tube, and your fare is deducted at the end of your journey, with caps applied if you go over the cost of a daysaver (just like oyster). It's not so good on buses, as you still have to ask the driver for a ticket, but the fare can be deducted from your Pop credit, if the operator is participating. I don't think capping applies on buses either. I understand Centro's SWIFT card can also be used for PAYG bus travel.

It can indeed, but in the way you describe for your card. The cost of the ticket is deducted from the card and a ticket printed.
 

johntea

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It's absolutely bl%^$dy nonsense at the minute to be honest with you, with all the different types of ticket available you actually question if you have a valid ticket yourself at times!

First you have the two designs of orange ticket, I've lost track of how long that has been going on now

Then you have various half baked ITSO smart ticketing attempts in various parts of the UK, e.g. MCard in Yorkshire and the Pop Card in Newcastle

On top of that you then have to mess about with tickets when you reach your destination to continue your journey via the local bus / tram services, unless you purchase PlusBus but good luck with certain staff on understanding how to add that to your ticket in the first place!

As much as I hate London, their Oyster card system is pretty much spot on and continually improving, with both physical (Oyster Card / Contactless Card) and virtual (Apple Pay) methods of travelling right across the city via all sorts of transport!
 

BigVern

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True. However, particularly if you go monthly or longer, they will be cheaper or at least no more expensive, and you will gain the convenience of not having to queue.

Not true for my ticket.
Senior Railcard fare £7.05 per day.
Annual Season £1,896.00 or £7.90 per day.
 

WelshBluebird

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I believe the Valley line chosen to trial this has been done so due to being statistically the branch that sees the smallest number of through tickets away from the area

I wonder what their solution for through tickets is though?
Back in January (when this trial was supposed to initially start) I asked and no one at ATW could answer what I should do if I wanted a through ticket.
 

61653 HTAFC

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


SPORTIS tickets. I can't remember exactly when Northern got rid of them, but I think it must have been around 2008/2009 something like that.

Must have been WAY before that, I'm thinking pre- Serco/Abellio, maybe even pre-privatisation. I do remember those tickets vaguely though. Think the last one I got was a child ticket issued by the guard on a 141- that gives an idea of how long ago it was!
 

bangor-toad

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Northern Ireland is somewhere I see as ideal to implement smart ticketing with its relatively small, uncomplicated, self - contained network.

A smart card covering trains and buses, all of which operate under Translink (I think), could be very doable

Already in place, covering trains, buses & coaches.
You can get a zonal ticket (iLink) for a day, week or month covering 1,2,3 or 4 zones for unlimited travel within the zones paid for. I recommend visitors to NI to get one of these.
Then there's the carnet-style smart card for bus journeys.

What we don't have is a PAYG type card. Few people seem to want it and are content with paper tickets for ad-hoc journeys.

As you say though, NI has a simple network and seems to have developed various ticketing options, including a decent mobile based system, that is easy to use.
Cheers,
Mr Toad
 

The Ham

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Not true for my ticket.
Senior Railcard fare £7.05 per day.
Annual Season £1,896.00 or £7.90 per day.

I don't know your personal circumstances, however for a standard office worker it would work out as follows:

366 days in a leap year less 104 days for weekends is 261 days less 28 days (20 days leave plus the 8 bank holidays) is 234.

1896 divided by 234 is £8.10 for leap years (slightly more by a few pence on normal years, although more again if you have more than the basic holiday entitlement).

HOWEVER

If the journey is within London & South East then the rules are that you can generally only use senior Railcard's to obtain a discount for off peak travel, which means that if you are travelling during the morning peak then a season ticket would work out cheaper.
 

hairyhandedfool

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Must have been WAY before that, I'm thinking pre- Serco/Abellio, maybe even pre-privatisation. I do remember those tickets vaguely though. Think the last one I got was a child ticket issued by the guard on a 141- that gives an idea of how long ago it was!

This style of ticket?


Picture found on Google.
 

AM9

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Must have been WAY before that, I'm thinking pre- Serco/Abellio, maybe even pre-privatisation. I do remember those tickets vaguely though. Think the last one I got was a child ticket issued by the guard on a 141- that gives an idea of how long ago it was!

I seem to remember that APTIS and PORTIS were introduced in the '70s following the large airline style tickets for Inter-City journeys. ISTR that APTIS was the fixed ticket printing machine in booking offices and PORTIS was the Guard carried version using a yellow glossy paper ticket roll.
 

Bletchleyite

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I seem to remember that APTIS and PORTIS were introduced in the '70s following the large airline style tickets for Inter-City journeys. ISTR that APTIS was the fixed ticket printing machine in booking offices and PORTIS was the Guard carried version using a yellow glossy paper ticket roll.

Correct, there was also the enhanced version called SPORTIS (Super Portable Ticket Issuing System). I forget what was super about it - possibly card acceptance?
 

swt_passenger

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So the lack of PAYG on national rail operators is a matter of *choice* by the operator, not a fundamental problem with the standard or the technology. They even have working reference implementations to go see.

So what sort of 'stored balance' would you expect people to need on a national rail ITSO PAYG system, so that the correct fare could be deducted at the destination?
 
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