Trip or Treet - Nightmare overcrowding on 17.48 XC from New Street

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Kettledrum, 31 Oct 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Kettledrum

    Kettledrum Member

    Messages:
    737
    Joined:
    13 Nov 2010
    Even by XC standards, the over-crowding on this 3 coach train is really bad tonight.

    The aisles were packed, the door areas were packed, it was like the London Underground. No-one else could physically get on so the guard locked the doors 5 mins before departure and left people behind on the platform.

    I suspect it has something to do with the HST incident in the South West, forcing people onto this 3 car service from New Street to Nottingham, but this is really unacceptable.

    Do XC sometimes have a spare unit on standby at New Street, and if so should it have been deployed?

    What happens to passengers for Wilnecote or even Willington where this is one of the few services that stops - certainly at Willington I hope none of the Willington residents were left behind at the platform as I'm not sure there is any later service for them to catch. The passengers agreed to me taking photographs but I didn't have enough space to capture exactly how full the train was.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 31 Oct 2016
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. Quakkerillo

    Quakkerillo Member

    Messages:
    536
    Joined:
    23 Jan 2015
    They can just catch the next service though for Willington, at 23:09. ;)
     
  4. SPADTrap

    SPADTrap Established Member

    Messages:
    2,337
    Joined:
    15 Oct 2012
    A busy train, never seen one of them before...
     
  5. TheBigD

    TheBigD Member

    Messages:
    905
    Joined:
    19 Nov 2008
    Due to the engineering work on the Cheltenham route the 1739 Birmingham-Derby service does not run this week...

    The 1749 Birmingham-Nottingham was also 2 car vice booked 3 car...

    Not sure of the general loadings on this route on a normal weekday evening but there was 5 cars worth of passengers for the 2 car service...
     
    Last edited: 31 Oct 2016
  6. Kettledrum

    Kettledrum Member

    Messages:
    737
    Joined:
    13 Nov 2010
    Normally all seats are taken on both services and you end up standing.

    so - if XC had a unit spare because the earlier service was not running, is there any reason why the 2 units could have been coupled together, thereby providing a 5 coach service for 5 coaches of passengers?
     
  7. iantherev

    iantherev Member

    Messages:
    653
    Joined:
    3 Apr 2011
    Location:
    Brecon Beacons
    If it was a Voyager it was possible it had been redeployed because of the problems with 1S51?at Bristol.
     
    Last edited: 31 Oct 2016
  8. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,505
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2014
    There are fewer units this week due to diversions via Kidderminster due to wiring and signalling works at Bromsgrove. It takes longer to travel via Kidderminster than via Bromsgrove due to the two track nature of the railway on this route where as there are four track sections via Bromsgrove for some parts.
     
  9. TheBigD

    TheBigD Member

    Messages:
    905
    Joined:
    19 Nov 2008
    2 extra 170's required due to the extended journey times on the Cardiff run... The normal 2+2 car diagram is just a single unit and the 1739 Brum-Derby service is cancelled to provide the necessary 170 units...
     
  10. ChrisHogan

    ChrisHogan Member

    Messages:
    296
    Joined:
    15 Jan 2016
    Correct used to restart the 1603 from New Street. 1703 northbound was also about 45 minutes late that couldn't having helped.

    There has been an extraordinary number of problems already during the Bromsgrove closure period; signalling problems at Ledbury, some dubious regulation at Smethwick, two Chiltern silver train failures (one only temporary), a 172 failure at Stourbridge Junction plus various 'off-route' problems such as cable theft in Northumberland, the train division today and various crew and unit shortages. At least the leaf-fall effects don't appear to have started.
     
  11. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

    Messages:
    3,779
    Joined:
    26 Oct 2013
    The 1849 or 48, whatever it is at the moment, had a special stop order for Willington.
     
  12. Richard_B

    Richard_B Member

    Messages:
    169
    Joined:
    13 Apr 2016
    At least some reasonable common sense occurred on a day of madness!
     
  13. TheBigD

    TheBigD Member

    Messages:
    905
    Joined:
    19 Nov 2008
    The service will be just a 2 car again tonight...
     
  14. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

    Messages:
    4,354
    Joined:
    12 Jun 2013
    Location:
    Betchworth, Surrey
    So, if someone had had enough/felt ill and decided to try get off, what would have happened then? If it would have been required to activate the emergency alarm, I imagine that would have caused all kinds of problems. I wasn't there so I don't know the details, but I don't like the sound of the doors being "locked" five minutes before departure, on the judgement of the guard that the train was officially 'full'.

    As you say, these pictures look no different to loadings found on almost every LU train in the peaks, and passengers are not prevented from boarding there. No doubt the guard would have had to explain his decision to those who might need to arrange taxis for anyone left behind if this was their last train of the day.
     
    Last edited: 1 Nov 2016
  15. xc170

    xc170 Member

    Messages:
    525
    Joined:
    28 Jan 2016
    From personal experience, these usually empty right out by Wilnecote and Tamworth.
     
  16. boxy321

    boxy321 Member

    Messages:
    440
    Joined:
    20 Jun 2016
    The Chiltern 7:55 to Marylebone this morning had a door fault and was running late so they cancelled all intermediate stops after Moor St. (some doors half open, the class 68 moved from Moor St., stopped, then started again).

    There were enough passengers to fill an 11-car pendolino waiting to go to Solihull after this. What finally arrived was the usual 4-carriage 168. Needless to say, not everyone got on it.
     
  17. Kettledrum

    Kettledrum Member

    Messages:
    737
    Joined:
    13 Nov 2010
    Yes - it was - and just as packed.

    Only difference tonight was when the train was full, it moved along the platform from platform 10b to platform 10a. A couple more passengers squeezed on while it waited on platform 10a and then it set off properly - It could have been my imagination, but it appeared to leave a couple of minutes early from platform 10a.

    Lots of confused looks on passengers faces.

    In my coach, one lady who was standing fainted and was given a seat - she was helped off at the first stop (Wilnecote), where someone was meeting her.
     
    Last edited: 1 Nov 2016
  18. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

    Messages:
    1,857
    Joined:
    5 Jan 2016
    I am amazed that a train was allowed to continue in service after that defect, I would have expected it to be straight to depot for investigation.
     
  19. nottinghamcity

    nottinghamcity Member

    Messages:
    373
    Joined:
    9 Aug 2012
    Location:
    Nottingham
    That is my experience too. There are also more leave the train than board at Burton on Trent.

    Overall I think the New Street signallers have done an excellent job in difficult circumstances.
     
  20. boxy321

    boxy321 Member

    Messages:
    440
    Joined:
    20 Jun 2016
    The interlocks worked so no movement with a door open. One double set didn't close at all and another stuck half open for a while. I watched the staff playing with the buttons.

    My annoyance with Chiltern on this occasion was the station announcer said it was 'engineering works', on board the next train it was a 'goods train' causing the delays and another source blamed London Midland.

    All along they were were trying to avoid delay repay by bodging the Mk3/class 68 service to London at all costs by missing out all the local stops.

    Finally, as Chiltern state the £25 fee for their 'Business Zone' is applicable even if only going one stop, can I claim back £25 plus a standard fare to Solihull from Moor St., since this should be a two way thing, or is this all about the lie that it is not 1st class?

    ^^That paragraph above needs explaining: a) 1st class season tickets are valid in the 'Business Zone'. b) There is a flat rate of £25 to travel in the 'Business Zone', no matter how far. c) Chiltern state 'For Season Ticket Holders the amount compensated will be calculated on the cost of an Anytime Single Fare....' d) If I was travelling on a service that had proper 1st class, the refund would be for a 1st class ticket, no? This just demonstrates the stupid concept of the 'coach at the front with 2 people in it that has big tables, 1+2 seating, free tea and coffee and a bacon sandwich'. No, not 1st at all.
     
    Last edited: 2 Nov 2016
  21. D1009

    D1009 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,166
    Joined:
    22 Feb 2012
    Location:
    Stoke Gifford
    Nothing to do with trying to minimise delay to the next working of the set, then?
     
  22. xtradj

    xtradj Member

    Messages:
    526
    Joined:
    24 Jul 2006
    you've obviously never been on merseyrail during peak evenings
     
  23. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

    Messages:
    10,223
    Joined:
    12 Sep 2013
    Location:
    Newcastle upon Tyne
    "Train company attempts to recover the service by running fast to the station that most people on board are heading to, in order to make sure the train is on time for it's next diagrammed working."

    I'm as disgusted as you are :roll:
     
  24. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,505
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2014
    How many HSTs are in use?

    If its only two from four perhaps a Voyager or two could do some Birmingham to Nottingham / Cardiff work with HSTs standing in for said Voyagers on the Plymouth to Scotland route.
     
  25. WelshBluebird

    WelshBluebird Established Member

    Messages:
    3,117
    Joined:
    14 Jan 2010
    Well one is out of use for a bit after what happened near Bristol the other day. Not sure on the others though.
    In any case, XC seem unwilling to use the HST's more than what they need to so can't see anything like that happening.
     
  26. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,854
    Joined:
    3 May 2015
    The alternative was for people to keep trying to push their way on, risking people falling between train and platform. This did happen a few months back during severe disruption at Euston as I recall. Don't forget the internal emergency alarm/door release if necessary.

    Tube passengers are used to this, the next train being rarely more than a couple of minutes away, so know not to panic too much. Not the case at New Street.
     
  27. ChrisHogan

    ChrisHogan Member

    Messages:
    296
    Joined:
    15 Jan 2016
    I'm not sure what the difficult circumstances are for New Street signalmen as most of the day they have 4 tph less than normal to deal with. They appear not to have understood that some diverted trains were booked to stand on the chord between Smethwick and Galton Junctions for up to 7 minutes. Holding these diverted trains back at Smethwick then caused a queue of trains behind - particularly yesterday after the Chiltern Silver Train already screwed things up badly.

    Today's disaster was some sort of operating incident at Blakedown on the Up road, probably with a southbound freight. No more details but XC again hammered with delays of up to 100 minutes southbound. (1430 to 1600).

    Only two more full days of these diversions, thank goodness.
     
  28. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

    Messages:
    1,857
    Joined:
    5 Jan 2016
    If the interlocks worked fine but the train was part way out of the platform there must be either another train defect allowing the train to roll or staff error.
     
  29. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

    Messages:
    10,994
    Joined:
    14 Nov 2011
    Location:
    Caerphilly

    XC HST Diagrams may be found here:-

    http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1478545

    Would probably be difficult to find a suitale Voyager Diagram as the HST would have to start and finish at either Craigentinny or Neville Hill for Maintenance and to balance up diagrams
     
  30. Kettledrum

    Kettledrum Member

    Messages:
    737
    Joined:
    13 Nov 2010
    I thought locking the doors was the right call by the guard

    I thought arranging for an additional stop at Willington on the next service was the right call by XC. Have XC also introduced a temporary extra stop at Tamworth on the 17.30?

    I think cancelling the 17.39 all week and squashing 5 coaches of passengers onto 2 coaches at 17.49 was not the right call, and would have liked to have seen a 4 car Voyager used at 17.49 or an additional unit hired in from elsewhere for the week.
     
  31. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,505
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2014
    I would probably start at the standard four (06:32 ex Dundee, 06:06 ex EDB, 06:00 ex LDS and 06:40 ex York) and see what happens from there.

    Three possibles
    06:06 ex EDB, 06:40 ex York and 06:00 ex Leeds could have been HSTs
     
    Last edited: 2 Nov 2016
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page