Trip or Treet - Nightmare overcrowding on 17.48 XC from New Street

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Kettledrum

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Even by XC standards, the over-crowding on this 3 coach train is really bad tonight.

The aisles were packed, the door areas were packed, it was like the London Underground. No-one else could physically get on so the guard locked the doors 5 mins before departure and left people behind on the platform.

I suspect it has something to do with the HST incident in the South West, forcing people onto this 3 car service from New Street to Nottingham, but this is really unacceptable.

Do XC sometimes have a spare unit on standby at New Street, and if so should it have been deployed?

What happens to passengers for Wilnecote or even Willington where this is one of the few services that stops - certainly at Willington I hope none of the Willington residents were left behind at the platform as I'm not sure there is any later service for them to catch. The passengers agreed to me taking photographs but I didn't have enough space to capture exactly how full the train was.
 

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TheBigD

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Due to the engineering work on the Cheltenham route the 1739 Birmingham-Derby service does not run this week...

The 1749 Birmingham-Nottingham was also 2 car vice booked 3 car...

Not sure of the general loadings on this route on a normal weekday evening but there was 5 cars worth of passengers for the 2 car service...
 
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Kettledrum

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Normally all seats are taken on both services and you end up standing.

so - if XC had a unit spare because the earlier service was not running, is there any reason why the 2 units could have been coupled together, thereby providing a 5 coach service for 5 coaches of passengers?
 

Class 170101

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There are fewer units this week due to diversions via Kidderminster due to wiring and signalling works at Bromsgrove. It takes longer to travel via Kidderminster than via Bromsgrove due to the two track nature of the railway on this route where as there are four track sections via Bromsgrove for some parts.
 

TheBigD

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Normally all seats are taken on both services and you end up standing.

so - if XC had a unit spare because the earlier service was not running, is there any reason why the 2 units could have been coupled together, thereby providing a 5 coach service for 5 coaches of passengers?
2 extra 170's required due to the extended journey times on the Cardiff run... The normal 2+2 car diagram is just a single unit and the 1739 Brum-Derby service is cancelled to provide the necessary 170 units...
 

ChrisHogan

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If it was a Voyager it was possible it had been redeployed because of the problems with 1S51?at Bristol.
Correct used to restart the 1603 from New Street. 1703 northbound was also about 45 minutes late that couldn't having helped.

There has been an extraordinary number of problems already during the Bromsgrove closure period; signalling problems at Ledbury, some dubious regulation at Smethwick, two Chiltern silver train failures (one only temporary), a 172 failure at Stourbridge Junction plus various 'off-route' problems such as cable theft in Northumberland, the train division today and various crew and unit shortages. At least the leaf-fall effects don't appear to have started.
 

Deepgreen

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Even by XC standards, the over-crowding on this 3 coach train is really bad tonight.

The aisles were packed, the door areas were packed, it was like the London Underground. No-one else could physically get on so the guard locked the doors 5 mins before departure and left people behind on the platform.

I suspect it has something to do with the HST incident in the South West, forcing people onto this 3 car service from New Street to Nottingham, but this is really unacceptable.

Do XC sometimes have a spare unit on standby at New Street, and if so should it have been deployed?

What happens to passengers for Wilnecote or even Willington where this is one of the few services that stops - certainly at Willington I hope none of the Willington residents were left behind at the platform as I'm not sure there is any later service for them to catch. The passengers agreed to me taking photographs but I didn't have enough space to capture exactly how full the train was.
So, if someone had had enough/felt ill and decided to try get off, what would have happened then? If it would have been required to activate the emergency alarm, I imagine that would have caused all kinds of problems. I wasn't there so I don't know the details, but I don't like the sound of the doors being "locked" five minutes before departure, on the judgement of the guard that the train was officially 'full'.

As you say, these pictures look no different to loadings found on almost every LU train in the peaks, and passengers are not prevented from boarding there. No doubt the guard would have had to explain his decision to those who might need to arrange taxis for anyone left behind if this was their last train of the day.
 
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xc170

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What happens to passengers for Wilnecote or even Willington where this is one of the few services that stops - certainly at Willington I hope none of the Willington residents were left behind at the platform as I'm not sure there is any later service for them to catch. The passengers agreed to me taking photographs but I didn't have enough space to capture exactly how full the train was.
From personal experience, these usually empty right out by Wilnecote and Tamworth.
 

boxy321

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The Chiltern 7:55 to Marylebone this morning had a door fault and was running late so they cancelled all intermediate stops after Moor St. (some doors half open, the class 68 moved from Moor St., stopped, then started again).

There were enough passengers to fill an 11-car pendolino waiting to go to Solihull after this. What finally arrived was the usual 4-carriage 168. Needless to say, not everyone got on it.
 

Kettledrum

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The service will be just a 2 car again tonight...
Yes - it was - and just as packed.

Only difference tonight was when the train was full, it moved along the platform from platform 10b to platform 10a. A couple more passengers squeezed on while it waited on platform 10a and then it set off properly - It could have been my imagination, but it appeared to leave a couple of minutes early from platform 10a.

Lots of confused looks on passengers faces.

In my coach, one lady who was standing fainted and was given a seat - she was helped off at the first stop (Wilnecote), where someone was meeting her.
 
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philthetube

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The Chiltern 7:55 to Marylebone this morning had a door fault and was running late so they cancelled all intermediate stops after Moor St. (some doors half open, the class 68 moved from Moor St., stopped, then started again).
I am amazed that a train was allowed to continue in service after that defect, I would have expected it to be straight to depot for investigation.
 

boxy321

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I am amazed that a train was allowed to continue in service after that defect, I would have expected it to be straight to depot for investigation.
The interlocks worked so no movement with a door open. One double set didn't close at all and another stuck half open for a while. I watched the staff playing with the buttons.

My annoyance with Chiltern on this occasion was the station announcer said it was 'engineering works', on board the next train it was a 'goods train' causing the delays and another source blamed London Midland.

All along they were were trying to avoid delay repay by bodging the Mk3/class 68 service to London at all costs by missing out all the local stops.

Finally, as Chiltern state the £25 fee for their 'Business Zone' is applicable even if only going one stop, can I claim back £25 plus a standard fare to Solihull from Moor St., since this should be a two way thing, or is this all about the lie that it is not 1st class?

^^That paragraph above needs explaining: a) 1st class season tickets are valid in the 'Business Zone'. b) There is a flat rate of £25 to travel in the 'Business Zone', no matter how far. c) Chiltern state 'For Season Ticket Holders the amount compensated will be calculated on the cost of an Anytime Single Fare....' d) If I was travelling on a service that had proper 1st class, the refund would be for a 1st class ticket, no? This just demonstrates the stupid concept of the 'coach at the front with 2 people in it that has big tables, 1+2 seating, free tea and coffee and a bacon sandwich'. No, not 1st at all.
 
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xtradj

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Even by XC standards, the over-crowding on this 3 coach train is really bad tonight.

The aisles were packed, the door areas were packed, it was like the London Underground. No-one else could physically get on so the guard locked the doors 5 mins before departure and left people behind on the platform.

I suspect it has something to do with the HST incident in the South West, forcing people onto this 3 car service from New Street to Nottingham, but this is really unacceptable.

Do XC sometimes have a spare unit on standby at New Street, and if so should it have been deployed?

What happens to passengers for Wilnecote or even Willington where this is one of the few services that stops - certainly at Willington I hope none of the Willington residents were left behind at the platform as I'm not sure there is any later service for them to catch. The passengers agreed to me taking photographs but I didn't have enough space to capture exactly how full the train was.
you've obviously never been on merseyrail during peak evenings
 

Tetchytyke

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All along they were were trying to avoid delay repay by bodging the Mk3/class 68 service to London at all costs by missing out all the local stops.
"Train company attempts to recover the service by running fast to the station that most people on board are heading to, in order to make sure the train is on time for it's next diagrammed working."

I'm as disgusted as you are :roll:
 

Class 170101

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How many HSTs are in use?

If its only two from four perhaps a Voyager or two could do some Birmingham to Nottingham / Cardiff work with HSTs standing in for said Voyagers on the Plymouth to Scotland route.
 

WelshBluebird

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How many HSTs are in use?

If its only two from four perhaps a Voyager or two could do some Birmingham to Nottingham / Cardiff work with HSTs standing in for said Voyagers on the Plymouth to Scotland route.
Well one is out of use for a bit after what happened near Bristol the other day. Not sure on the others though.
In any case, XC seem unwilling to use the HST's more than what they need to so can't see anything like that happening.
 

Ianno87

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So, if someone had had enough/felt ill and decided to try get off, what would have happened then? If it would have been required to activate the emergency alarm, I imagine that would have caused all kinds of problems. I wasn't there so I don't know the details, but I don't like the sound of the doors being "locked" five minutes before departure, on the judgement of the guard that the train was officially 'full'.

As you say, these pictures look no different to loadings found on almost every LU train in the peaks, and passengers are not prevented from boarding there. No doubt the guard would have had to explain his decision to those who might need to arrange taxis for anyone left behind if this was their last train of the day.
The alternative was for people to keep trying to push their way on, risking people falling between train and platform. This did happen a few months back during severe disruption at Euston as I recall. Don't forget the internal emergency alarm/door release if necessary.

Tube passengers are used to this, the next train being rarely more than a couple of minutes away, so know not to panic too much. Not the case at New Street.
 

ChrisHogan

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Overall I think the New Street signallers have done an excellent job in difficult circumstances.
I'm not sure what the difficult circumstances are for New Street signalmen as most of the day they have 4 tph less than normal to deal with. They appear not to have understood that some diverted trains were booked to stand on the chord between Smethwick and Galton Junctions for up to 7 minutes. Holding these diverted trains back at Smethwick then caused a queue of trains behind - particularly yesterday after the Chiltern Silver Train already screwed things up badly.

Today's disaster was some sort of operating incident at Blakedown on the Up road, probably with a southbound freight. No more details but XC again hammered with delays of up to 100 minutes southbound. (1430 to 1600).

Only two more full days of these diversions, thank goodness.
 

philthetube

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I am amazed that a train was allowed to continue in service after that defect, I would have expected it to be straight to depot for investigation.
If the interlocks worked fine but the train was part way out of the platform there must be either another train defect allowing the train to roll or staff error.
 

PHILIPE

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How many HSTs are in use?

If its only two from four perhaps a Voyager or two could do some Birmingham to Nottingham / Cardiff work with HSTs standing in for said Voyagers on the Plymouth to Scotland route.

XC HST Diagrams may be found here:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1478545

Would probably be difficult to find a suitale Voyager Diagram as the HST would have to start and finish at either Craigentinny or Neville Hill for Maintenance and to balance up diagrams
 

Kettledrum

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The alternative was for people to keep trying to push their way on, risking people falling between train and platform. This did happen a few months back during severe disruption at Euston as I recall. Don't forget the internal emergency alarm/door release if necessary.

Tube passengers are used to this, the next train being rarely more than a couple of minutes away, so know not to panic too much. Not the case at New Street.
I thought locking the doors was the right call by the guard

I thought arranging for an additional stop at Willington on the next service was the right call by XC. Have XC also introduced a temporary extra stop at Tamworth on the 17.30?

I think cancelling the 17.39 all week and squashing 5 coaches of passengers onto 2 coaches at 17.49 was not the right call, and would have liked to have seen a 4 car Voyager used at 17.49 or an additional unit hired in from elsewhere for the week.
 

Class 170101

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XC HST Diagrams may be found here:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1478545

Would probably be difficult to find a suitale Voyager Diagram as the HST would have to start and finish at either Craigentinny or Neville Hill for Maintenance and to balance up diagrams
I would probably start at the standard four (06:32 ex Dundee, 06:06 ex EDB, 06:00 ex LDS and 06:40 ex York) and see what happens from there.

Three possibles
06:06 ex EDB, 06:40 ex York and 06:00 ex Leeds could have been HSTs
 
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