TRIVIA : International train services where 'on train' Customs Examination and Immigration checks take place

[Cloud Strife]

Slovenia (Središče ob Dravi) - Croatia (Čakovec) works like this.

The train stops at Središče ob Dravi, where Slovenian police enter the train to carry out exit checks. You can board/alight the train here, but the police won't start checking until everyone has got on/left. There's such few passengers that it's very easy to deal with - when I was there two years ago, the police even laughed at having some different documents to check for once.

The train then proceeds to Čakovec, where the Croatian police enter the train (as it stands on the platform) and checks are conducted before any passengers can leave. Again, in practice, you're free to go once you've been checked.

In reverse, the Croatian exit checks take place on the platform, while the Slovenian police carry out entry controls in the same way as the Croatians do.

I believe it works in an identical way on the trains to Lendava from Čakovec.

From Poland, most (but not all) international trains crossing the Schengen border have on-board checks. The exception is the local train between Terespol and Brest (Belarus), where checks are carried out in the international part of the respective train stations. The trains that go through to Grodno from Białystok have a mix - checks are carried out in the international section of Grodno station, while the Polish checks are conducted on-board.

Otherwise, trains such as those between Lviv and Przemyśl have on-board checks, with the former international station in Przemyśl no longer in use for some strange reason. I've never received a satisfactory answer to this, as it seems illogical that arriving/departing passengers could use the international station in comfort.

My recent two trips by train across the Norway/Sweden border, at Riksgransen on the Narvik-Kiruna line, did not involve alighting from the train, any red or green channels, or any intervention by officials.

I believe that in this case, it's your obligation to inform the relevant customs office *in advance* that you intend to carry more than the limits across the border. They'll normally give you permission to travel, and you just have to inform them once you arrive about the arrival of the goods. Norway has quite a well established system for declarations, so for instance, you can use an app to pay for alcohol/cigarette duties. A friend tells me that it's quite common for them to tell people to simply travel and not to worry about paying taxes if it's a minimal amount - but you still need to make the pre-declaration if you're going by train.

Otherwise, if you enter Norway by road/sea/air, you need to declare the goods upon entry. The Norwegian/Swedish border is actually quite strongly controlled in terms of goods, and if you have something to declare, you can only cross the border at a handful of points.

Our system for Eurostar is already fairly advanced, and possibly unique.

No, it's not unique. The US has a preclearance facility in Vancouver, for instance. Before Slovakia joined Schengen, there were Slovak and Austrian controls in Bratislava-Petrzalka station. I believe Sopron also had joint Austrian and Hungarian controls.

There is really no reason why controls couldn't be carried out while the train is in motion, but the logistics of the Channel Tunnel with the 'slots' make it difficult. One option, of course, could be to deny access to the Eurostar to anyone that wasn't from the EU+a handful of trusted countries.

 

[RT4038]

There is really no reason why controls couldn't be carried out while the train is in motion, but the logistics of the Channel Tunnel with the 'slots' make it difficult. One option, of course, could be to deny access to the Eurostar to anyone that wasn't from the EU+a handful of trusted countries.

I would think that the two main reasons would be:
(a) the scanning of passports, coupled with checking the database in real time, would be more difficult on a moving train, both in terms of the physical handling and the reliability of the data connection.
(b) the sheer cost of providing UKBA and security staff, deep in foreign territory, to ride each train for about an hour (we are talking about busy services, rather than empty local trains on the Croatian/Slovenian border), in which they would be lucky to do two trains per shift. This additional cost would be passed on to ticket holders, which would make the product less competitive and jeopardise viability.
(c) the delay to trains as they stopped (for an indeterminate time) to eject any passengers, possibly recalcitrant, without valid immigration documents,
[or any in query] in France. Probably without much co-operation from the French authorities. This could be mitigated by E* staff checking documents before boarding (as airlines do), but this would require more E* staff (at each door) at platforms in stations where sleeper trains would come from.

I am not sure what the option you quote would actually achieve - UKBA will not abdicate their responsibilities to E* staff, so immigration checks would have to be carried out in a secure area at St. Pancras, with E* taking the risk of penalty should any invalid documented persons arrive. I guess that E* cannot guarantee the secure access to trains that this would require, and do not wish to take this risk.

 

[ryanstait24@gm]

We have been told by various posters over the years that 'on train' Customs Examination and Immigration checks on International services are common, and that the UK is out of step by refusing to do these on Eurostar services.

I am not so sure that this 'common' nowadays and would like to collect some evidence. This is genuine 'on train' whilst in motion, so not:

(a) Customs and Immigration checks carried out 'on train' whilst the train is standing at a station, gauge changer or border post.
(b) Customs and Immigration checks carried out by passengers alighting from the through train and passing through a hall of some sort.
(c) Trains crossing international borders within an integrated immigration zone (such as Schengen, or our own CTA with Eire), where immigraton and customs examination does not take place,

Although I have travelled fairly extensively, the only one I have encountered that is still in operation is:

Kapiri Mposhi-Dar Es Salaam train, where checks are done on the move between Nakonde and Tunduma.

I believe it may take place on Helsinki-St. Petersburg line, and I'm not sure what happens on the internaional trains between Russia and former CIS states [which have a historical relationship], but no doubt someone can enlighten me.

We had passports checked by Austrian police between Brenner and Innsbruck on Tuesday when returning from Italy.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I would think that the two main reasons would be:
(a) the scanning of passports, coupled with checking the database in real time, would be more difficult on a moving train, both in terms of the physical handling and the reliability of the data connection.
(b) the sheer cost of providing UKBA and security staff, deep in foreign territory, to ride each train for about an hour (we are talking about busy services, rather than empty local trains on the Croatian/Slovenian border), in which they would be lucky to do two trains per shift. This additional cost would be passed on to ticket holders, which would make the product less competitive and jeopardise viability.
(c) the delay to trains as they stopped (for an indeterminate time) to eject any passengers, possibly recalcitrant, without valid immigration documents,
[or any in query] in France. Probably without much co-operation from the French authorities. This could be mitigated by E* staff checking documents before boarding (as airlines do), but this would require more E* staff (at each door) at platforms in stations where sleeper trains would come from.

With the points in turn:

A) Yes, this is a problem. It's one thing when a train is going slowly or stopped in a station, it's a different story when the train is hurtling through Northern France. I'm also not sure that UKBA even have the equipment to carry out checks 'on the move', unlike in Schengen-land.
B) I don't disagree here. It's simply much easier to have static checks in Lille, though IMO, it would be better if checks were performed on-board in Lille as to avoid people having to get off the train.
C) This is the key problem: without cooperation from the French authorities, it simply can't work. This is why I think allowing on-board checks at Lille Europe would make much more sense: staff could get the whole train checked within 10-15 minutes, especially if they've already been pre-checked by Eurostar south of Lille.

Having said all this, there really is no better system than the current one. It would be nice if France and the others could agree that anyone denied access to the UK would be returned to their origin station without complaint, as this would mean that only security checks would be required at departure stations.

 

[RT4038]

With the points in turn:

A) Yes, this is a problem. It's one thing when a train is going slowly or stopped in a station, it's a different story when the train is hurtling through Northern France. I'm also not sure that UKBA even have the equipment to carry out checks 'on the move', unlike in Schengen-land.
B) I don't disagree here. It's simply much easier to have static checks in Lille, though IMO, it would be better if checks were performed on-board in Lille as to avoid people having to get off the train.
C) This is the key problem: without cooperation from the French authorities, it simply can't work. This is why I think allowing on-board checks at Lille Europe would make much more sense: staff could get the whole train checked within 10-15 minutes, especially if they've already been pre-checked by Eurostar south of Lille.

Having said all this, there really is no better system than the current one. It would be nice if France and the others could agree that anyone denied access to the UK would be returned to their origin station without complaint, as this would mean that only security checks would be required at departure stations.

I am sure that a piece of equipment could be produced for UKBA to do the scanning whilst 'hand held' in the stationary train at Lille (as already said, reliably communicating with a database in real time on the move at speed is problematical), if there was a requirement to do so.

Remember that this discussion started relating to the operation of through sleeping car trains from places in Europe which are not standard E* points where there are static check in desks. There is no requirement for UKBA to check passports inside a stationary train at Lille, because the Channel Tunnel passenger train security protocol requires every piece of luggage has to be scanned. As this is not practical and secure when passengers board at ordinary station platforms across the continent, the passengers would have to alight at Lille with their luggage for the scanning, and it is more practical to pass through static immigration during this process.

We are talking long distance express train with 500 passengers aboard. Unless there was an army of UKBA officials and security available (which would not be economical for the small number of trains that would require such a size of staff at once), I do not think 10-15 minutes would be adequate to security check the train (no hidden passengers), scan every passport and allow time for all but the worst case numbers of passengers to deal with the inevitable queries and ejecting invalid passengers. In many instances in the world, international long distance trains crossing 'hard' borders allow about one hour for this process, even with all the passengers remaining in the train. I am not sure current secure platform capacity at Lille could cope with many trains doing that.

 

[RT4038]

We had passports checked by Austrian police between Brenner and Innsbruck on Tuesday when returning from Italy.

But this is not crossing a 'hard' border - it is a routine check of passports within the Schengen zone.

 

[Starmill]

The only time I have experienced this was on the Italian-French border on a TGV. French customs boarded and went through the train carriage by carriage while the train was moving. Once in France we stopped at a station for twenty minutes to complete the check, disembark a passenger and then continued on. They seemed very interested in making sure every suitcase had a passenger with it. This leads me to believe drugs are potentially smuggled out of Italy into France on these trains.

That doesn't sound like a customs check, it sounds like a search by police for criminal activity? That's pretty common onboard international trains in at lots of different points of their journey across much of Europe. It does not necessarily happen immediately at the border.

It's important not to confuse the polite requests for identification by local police officers, railway staff or civil officials, which may be only satisfied by passports in the case of UK Citizens, with an Entry - Exit Check between an EU member state and a third country.

 

[Iskra]

That doesn't sound like a customs check, it sounds like a search by police for criminal activity? That's pretty common onboard international trains in at lots of different points of their journey across much of Europe. It does not necessarily happen immediately at the border.

It's important not to confuse the polite requests for identification by local police officers, railway staff or civil officials, which may be only satisfied by passports in the case of UK Citizens, with an Entry - Exit Check between an EU member state and a third country.

They had Douanes written on the back of their bulletproof vests. That’s customs...

 

[RT4038]

They had Douanes written on the back of their bulletproof vests. That’s customs...

Person boards train at Milan or Turin with a suitcase, stows it and alights in melee. Accomplice does the reverse at Paris. Reduces risk of getting caught in transit, vs risk (low) of luggage theft, vs reward of sale of contents. Plus cheaper, as no ticket required for courier.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Person boards train at Milan or Turin with a suitcase, stows it and alights in melee. Accomplice does the reverse at Paris. Reduces risk of getting caught in transit, vs risk (low) of luggage theft, vs reward of sale of contents. Plus cheaper, as no ticket required for courier.

Last time I joined a train at Milan, I couldn't get on the platform without showing my ticket...

 

[leytongabriel]

There were doing it on the train from Montreal to New York when Iast went. Quite thorough immigration checks, not a soft border.

 

[AlbertBeale]

There were doing it on the train from Montreal to New York when Iast went. Quite thorough immigration checks, not a soft border.

I don't think the US has a concept of a "soft border"!!

 

[James James]

They had Douanes written on the back of their bulletproof vests. That’s customs...

Not completely sure why, but its often customs people who do do these intra-schengen border checks. Even though there's no customs border, I suppose they're still the right people to enforce laws around what can be brought into a country. I just found an article about German customs officers searching cars coming from Poland to look for illegal fireworks for example.

Regarding the US/Canadian border: I thought those checks were all done while stationary? At least that's what I remember for trains from NY to Montreal and the like - nice long stop on the border (although Vancouver is the exception with almost everything being done in Vancouver's train station, except for an additional inspection stop at the real border for trains heading south).

 

[EAD]

Not completely sure why, but its often customs people who do do these intra-schengen border checks. Even though there's no customs border, I suppose they're still the right people to enforce laws around what can be brought into a country. I just found an article about German customs officers searching cars coming from Poland to look for illegal fireworks for example.

Regarding the US/Canadian border: I thought those checks were all done while stationary? At least that's what I remember for trains from NY to Montreal and the like - nice long stop on the border (although Vancouver is the exception with almost everything being done in Vancouver's train station, except for an additional inspection stop at the real border for trains heading south).

It is pretty common practice by customs and other law enforcement where pre-Schengen there was a clear border station or crossing. They are looking for all sorts of other issues like contraband, drugs, human trafficking etc. Happens more on the motorways e.g. A12/A93 between Tyrol and Bavaria where with Kiefersfelden gone the customs teams essentially roam some distance either side of the border and pick people up at random/based on intelligence. I recall a set of lorries being subject to a sting one morning just outside Rosenheim for example and while lead by the Germans, their Austrian counterparts were also assisting.