[Trivia] Journeys where Northern trains are decisively quicker than driving

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by Starmill, 17 Jul 2019.

  1. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    As per the thread title, I am looking for trivia journeys where Northern trains have a significant time advantage over driving. The journey needs to be between two reasonably populated towns or cities or their significant railheads (so for example, Alnmouth would count, Chathill would not). I am not sure how many of these there will be, but the advantage should be decisive - more than around 1/3 quicker where possible. In some cases, other trains on the same route might be faster or more frequent and in other cases there might not be a frequent train service at all, but as long as there are at least several daily services this can be counted. This is mainly a question of the structural capability of the train service, so because the impact of peak road congestion is so difficult to measure, I think it will generally need to be ignored - even though this is often a very significant reason why the train service is attractive. For some context, if anyone can spot an example as good as this Transport for Wales one over a similar or greater distance, I would be very interested: Crewe to Shrewsbury is at least 60 minutes driving, but a fast train can make the journey in 30 minutes.

    A couple of examples to get started:

    Manchester to Bolton, 20 minutes by the majority of trains, at least 30 by road

    Lancaster to Preston, 20 minutes by the hourly Northern trains, around 35 minutes by road

    Arnside to Grange-over-Sands is 6 minutes by train, and 25 by road.
     
    Last edited: 17 Jul 2019
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  3. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    Quite a lot around the Cumbrian Coast Line.

    Drigg to Ravenglass, 4 min by train and about 10 by road.

    Cark and Cartmell to Ulverston, 8 min by train and 20 min by car.

    When the 2009 floods happened from Workington to Workington North was much quicker by train.
     
  4. erk

    erk Member

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    How about Flixton to Irlam. 16 minutes by car; 4 by train.
     
  5. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    Would Arnside to Grange-over-Sands count?

    Plenty of commuter examples, such as Skipton to Leeds. Not so many rural examples?
     
  6. NoMorePacers

    NoMorePacers Member

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    Hull to Beverley takes at least 20 mins by car but is timetabled to do it in 13 mins by train.
     
  7. Boysteve

    Boysteve Member

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    Bridlington to Driffield in 14 minutes, make that 24 minutes if you drive from town centre to town centre.
    Also definitely quicker by rail from both Driffield & Bridlington to central Hull.
     
  8. Boysteve

    Boysteve Member

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    Ha! Cycle is quicker than driving that one!
     
  9. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    Most journeys from Airedale, even offpeak, into Leeds.
     
  10. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    The best time by train from Skipton to Leeds appears to be about 40 minutes, against 50 by road.
    Shipley to Leeds seems to qualify, however. 15 minutes on some trains, half an hour driving.
     
  11. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    Googlemaps is telling me Skipton Leeds would be 53 mins at 10.30pm - that's as quiet as you get. Keighley Leeds would be 40 min at least.
     
  12. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    Not in rush hour it isn't, the A660 is a car park.
     
  13. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    Hmmmm
     
  14. Bertie the bus

    Bertie the bus Established Member

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    Preston - Leyland
    Preston - Wigan
    York - Leeds
     
  15. talltim

    talltim Established Member

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    Chesterfield-Sheffield is about 20 mins by train and half an hour by car with no traffic. There never is no traffic...
     
  16. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    There'll be lots of short local examples:
    Lostock to Bolton
    Lostock to Horwich
    Bolton to Westhoughton


    Bolton to Blackburn would be a good longer example.
     
  17. telstarbox

    telstarbox Established Member

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    This is a bit artificial as most people don't live or work directly adjacent to the stations at each end.
     
  18. Deafdoggie

    Deafdoggie Established Member

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    Kidsgrove-Congleton is 7 minutes by train, and 20 by car
     
  19. agbrs_Jack

    agbrs_Jack Member

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    Timetable for MAC-SOT is terrible. It's timed for 7m but trains often do it in as little as 4m.

    Congleton - Macclesfield is also far quicker than driving. 6-7m on train where driving takes 20m.

    (05:38 MAN-SOT is timed for ELEVEN minutes MAC-CNG. Always arrives around 5E and sits at Congleton for ages - although I believe this is to let the EMT service ahead at Kidsgrove)
     
  20. BigCj34

    BigCj34 Member

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    Barrow-in-Furness to Millom, including journeys between intermediate stations, is quicker. Helps that the Duddon estuary has a rail viaduct further down south so less of a meander than the A595, which itself has terrible pinchpoints.

    Also Oxenholme to Kendal and Burneside beat the car.
     
  21. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    Barrow-in-Furness to all stations south of Ulverston - Lancaster, Preston, Manchester, etc
     
  22. Springs Branch

    Springs Branch Member

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    Wigan to Southport:-
    • 33 min by train
    • 48 min driving (+45%)
    My own experience is Google's 48 mins estimate is optimistic in typical traffic conditions, notwithstanding a stretch on the very un-congested M58.

    Atherton to Manchester Victoria area:-
    • 25-27 min by train
    • 41 min driving (>+50%)
    • 48 min on the Vantage guided busway
    There will be lots of similar examples for trips from suburban railheads into the cities.

    Not within the OP's criteria, but out of interest.
    Manchester Piccadilly area to Sheffield:-
    • 1h 15min on Northern all most-shacks trains.
    • 1h 25min driving via A57 (+13%)
    But only 50 - 53min using the EMT / TPE expresses, making driving +70% longer.
     
  23. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    That is probably either an engineering allowance or (more likely I would wager) a PPM allowance as Stoke is the terminus - I suspect you'll find the other direction is a lesser time. Don't know if it is still the case, but it used to be that Chilterns from Birmingham Moor St to Snow Hill were timed about 10 mins (actual journey around 2 mins) as it allows recovery time to meet PPM - in that case, it was even more crazy as planning systems thought it was quicker to turf one off the Chiltern and put you on the LM behind which was timed to overtake through the tunnel!
     
    Last edited: 18 Jul 2019
  24. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    I would put forward Leeds to Dewsbury - on the Northern service, it is timed around 15 minutes (I was looking at the 22:26 Leeds to Hebden Bridge when discussing with @Starmill yesterday evening, as an example) with Google estimating 25 minutes in light traffic.

    In a similar vein to @Springs Branch, this journey is quicker on the express TPE's (as opposed to the all shacks which now operates...) which completes the journey in around 10 minutes. Indeed, I have utilised this myself where the train is quicker (particularly as I was heading into Leeds at around 18:30), less stressful (who really wants to go anywhere near a city centre at peak times in a car?!) and saved me the cost of car parking. I was very much glad of it, when walking to the venue I was heading to (around 5 mins walk from the station) I was moving quicker than much of the traffic round that area!
     
  25. Bertie the bus

    Bertie the bus Established Member

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    Definately not. If the roads are reasonably quiet you could probably beat the train between Barrow and Preston.
     
  26. geoffk

    geoffk Established Member

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    Littleborough to Manchester 22 minutes train, drive probably 40 minutes, but of course depends where you want to be in Manchester and how long it takes to find a parking space. A few weeks ago my car was parked at Mytholmroyd, where I got off the train from Leeds. I just beat the train home to Littleborough, over the top via Cragg Vale and A58, despite two lots of road works!
     
  27. Kieran1990

    Kieran1990 Member

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    Wakefield Westgate to Leeds is quicker than driving
     
  28. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    Right now at 14:15 it is now 57 mins. But unless travelling in the middle of the day or late at night a more realistic figure would be an hour at least, and way more in the peaks.
     
  29. agbrs_Jack

    agbrs_Jack Member

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    It hasn't been the case in the past though. An thinking about it northbound is worse. the services are xx10 or xx12 going north often arrive at xx07-xx10, waiting around a while.
    It can be quite annoying, say, for example when a delayed service into stoke misses the connection and the next one arrives 1m Early making the delay 59 minutes.

    There's also the invalid connection on Saturdays off the 06:20 CNG-Stoke and the 0639 Stoke - Bristol XC service. (4 minutes (0635-0639, Stoke is 5m minimum).
     
  30. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Barnsley-Sheffield. 23 minutes on a semi-fast. Google says in light traffic the car takes 28 minutes. It's a lot longer than that a lot of the time due to traffic.
    Doncaster-Sheffield too. 29 minutes on a Northern semi-fast. Google says at 9pm tonight the car would take 30-45mins.
     
  31. johnnychips

    johnnychips Established Member

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    I think this is the most pertinent point on the thread. In addition, most posters have ignored @Starmill ‘s initial point that the saving of time has to be between significant population centres: I could easily posit Hattersley to Glossop, but that isn’t the point of the discussion. Instead it seems to have turned into a bit of a ‘trivia’ thread.
     

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