[Trivia] Journeys With The Same Operator, Exact Same Route But Different Number

[tbtc]

Are there any/many examples of individual journeys operated by the same overall company with the exact same routes and exact same stops... BUT with a different route number?

There are a number of routes that have a common section with other routes, there are a number of routes with "part" journeys, there must be some examples where a short journey could use either number (or even of of a number of numbers!).

As a hypothetical, there are many services from Eldon Square in Newcastle to Gateshead Interchange, so if there were any short journeys (just between the two places, not extending any further in either direction) would they all use the same number or would the bus continue to use the same number as per the previous/subsequent journey?

Criteria:

I'm talking about journeys operating on the same day (or at least in the same week) as each other, so not talking about times when the service number has changed (this ISN'T a discussion about the thousands of examples of services that have changed number)

I'm talking about services operated by the same parent company (so fair enough if there's an example where Stagecoach City use a different number to Stagecoach County for the exact same journey, or a "low cost" subsidiary used a different number to the parent company - it's all under the same "umbrella") - but I'm not talking about completely different companies using the same number for the same service (plenty of examples of competition where different companies use different numbers, but that's not for this thread)

I'm not worrying about different stances within bus stations, as long as the other stops are the same (Bustimes.org has taught me that there are many examples where one service can use a variety of different stances at the same bus station, depending on which service a particular journey interworks with)

Doesn't have to be at the same time of day or the same day of the week, as long as the start/intermediate/end points are the same

Individual journeys are fine, I'm not talking about every journey having to be the same

Some potential examples that come to mind:

Where a PTE/council subsidise evening/ Sunday journeys, but want "their" number to be used (e.g. some PTEs/councils insist on tendered services being 2xx or 4xx rather than the regular one/two digit number

Night Buses that follow exactly the same route as the daytime service

Where multiple services have journeys that do the same "part route" (e.g. there might be several journeys from the bus station to the bus depot, but where each bus uses the same route number that it uses for the rest of the day)

I'm happy to be corrected but the Stagecoach X54 and X59A both have "short" journeys from Edinburgh that terminate at Glenrothes Bus Station; from what I can see they both follow the same route (via Ferrytoll and Cowdenbeath) and obey the same intermediate stops (I'm not fussed whether they use the exact same stances at the various bus stations that they serve, that's too pedantic for the scope of this thread). The full length of the X54 and X59As are different (one serves Dundee, the other serves St Andrews), but these journeys terminating at Glenrothes look identical to me

Over to you...

 

[miklcct]

When Yellow Buses operated its N routes, the N routes were exactly the same in routing as the daytime routes.

Outside the UK, in Hong Kong, apart from similar examples, there was a notable historical example of 1 / 5A which was a result of route reorganisation, merging the two then-different routes into one. As both route numbers had a long history initially both numbers were kept, with departures alternating numbers as a transitional measure, and a poll was conductor afterwards to choose which number to be kept. The result was that the number 1 was to be kept and 5A to be withdrawn.

 

[Dai Corner]

As alluded to in the OP, Avon County Council wanted passengers to know if they were using a subsided service and specified their own range of numbers. There were also lots of explanatory notices on buses, at stops and in printed timetables.

A commercial Bristol City service might be 1 or 88 and the equivalent subsidised service would be 501 or 588. A Country service such as 362 would become 662 when it was subsidised on evenings and Sundays.

 

[SSmith2009]

The only one that comes to mind is trentbarton V3 as sister company Notts+Derby operates 3 peak time journeys (1 inbound and 2 outbound)

 

[43055]

The only one that comes to mind is trentbarton V3 as sister company Notts+Derby operates 3 peak time journeys (1 inbound and 2 outbound)

Both are numbered V3 now but in old timetables the N+D journeys were labeled as either 3 or 333.

The only other one that I can think of is First Wessex X51/X53 between Bridport and Axminster on the journeys that start/finish at Bridport where sometimes it is a X51 and others it is a X53. In fact with the timetable change next week first journey from Bridport changes to a X53 from X51.

 

[Flange Squeal]

During the day, Stagecoach South's routes 1 and 2 in Guildford, Surrey, form a circular that changes number along the way. Buses run as route 1 Guildford - Uni - Sports Park - Hospital - Rydes Hill - Stoughton, then switch to route 2 Stoughton - Guildford. They are advertised as through journeys.

But on nights that the N1 night bus runs, as far as I can see these overnight journeys run the exact same full Guildford - Uni - Sports Park - Hospital - Rydes Hill - Stoughton - Guildford circuit as per the combined daytime routes 1 and 2, but numbered as N1 throughout.

Timetable: https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/South/Guildford/GD 02Jan22/Guildford1_2Timetable02Jan22.pdf

(For reference, this situation is unchanged from before the 1 was extended eastwards to/from Bushy Hill in December, over a section not affected by the circular service described above)

 

[TXMISTA]

Before it was renumbered to 715, the Surrey route 515 between Kingston and Guildford ran as the 515A on Sundays. They were identical aside from a small routing difference at the Kingston end, and I believe were exactly the same at one point in time.

You could also potentially consider TfL routes 27 and N27 between Hammersmith and Chalk Farm. Of all night and day route counterparts in London, I believe they have the most similarity. The only difference between the two is a small loop that the 27 does at the Hammersmith end.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

90 is operated by First Glasgow commercially.
190 is operated by First Glasgow under a tender from SPT

 

[Statto]

Merseyside tendered routes had a different number to the commercial service, even though the route was the same, same terminal points, & often the same company, Merseytravel routes were numbered 100 to 250, but 3xx & 4xx was sometimes used, like 12, 13 became tendered 112 & 113, same company, same route, Fareway F2 though became tendered 242, again same company & same route.

.

 

[318266]

90 is operated by First Glasgow commercially.
190 is operated by First Glasgow under a tender from SPT

The 190 is a complete clockwise circular, paired with the anti-clockwise 189.

The 90 is a very similar route; but:
-isn't a circular
-doesn't go through QEUH stances; instead going around the "side" of the hospital
-goes via Linthouse rather than Drumoyne
-at one end goes to Braehead and terminates; 189/190 goes under Clyde Tunnel to close the circle up to Partick
-at the other end, terminates in Partick

 

[py_megapixel]

Stagecoach Manchester has a few early-morning short runs of route 42 which only go as far as Parrs Wood. This makes them the same as route 142.

 

[Busaholic]

Prior to the opening of the Victoria Line in London, peak hour 'short' journeys operated from Victoria Bus Station to Green Park on the 25, 38 and 38A. The latter two operated from the same platform in the bus station too. No fewer than five garages operated these journeys!