Trivia: least changed timetable.

[Cricketer8for9]

Is there a timetable thread looking at line timetables which have remained unchanged for the longest time?

If not my rules are.

1. A to B timetable must not have changed for the longest period.
2. By A and B I mean end points of a service as opposed to two intermediate stations on a through service (so Liverpool loop to New Brighton counts .but not Liverpool Lime St to St James).
3. On the Liverpool to The Wirral front the starting point is the Loop.
4. I’d also be interested if the interval is the same even if the exact minutes are different.
5. Minor changes at the start and end of traffic days don’t count. I’m broadly looking at peak/off peak timetables.
6. Other rules to follow if and when commentators seek clarification.
7. Historic information also welcome; they don’t have to be current timetables.

 

[Ianno87]

Whilst the exact minutes have been tweaked over the years, the Liverpool-Norwich and Manchester Airport-Cleethorpes are basically in the same paths they were in the early 1990s through the Manchester/Sheffield area, and (in latter case) through Doncaster.

The Liv-Norwich has been accelerated at the eastern end, with calls like Langley Mill transferres to the Northern Leeds-Nottingham service, and Brandon etc to the Norwich-Cambridge. Plus the odd trains that served Cambridge rather than Norwich have ceased.

 

[StephenHunter]

Romford to Upminster has been a single MU shuttle service with half hourly departures for as longer as I have remembered. It now runs on Sundays, although it is frequently closed when engineering works affect the GEML.

 

[aliceh]

The Brockenhurst - Lymington shuttle has been the same 30-minute service for as long as I can remember (though I have a vague memory of services from Southampton in the 90s). I think the timings departing Brock at 29 and 59 past haven't changed either.

 

[306024]

Romford to Upminster has been a single MU shuttle service with half hourly departures for as longer as I have remembered. It now runs on Sundays, although it is frequently closed when engineering works affect the GEML.

I remember further back when an extra morning peak train used to be squeezed in, with trains running every 24 minutes until the pattern was regained. Running time between the two ends was 8 minutes, which with a DMU and no data recorders was achievable. Then electrification, with some dead sections in the overhead line under low bridges, eventually saw the running time increased to 9 minutes, and the end of the morning peak extra.

For years Liverpool St to Norwich services have traditionally left the capital from platform 9 at xx.30, which has continued even after the station was rebuilt.

 

[StephenHunter]

Still 8 minute runtime now.

 

[306024]

Still 8 minute runtime now.

Take a closer look You made me check RTT but it’s 9 minutes.

 

[StephenHunter]

It's advertised as 8 minutes on the public timetable and I've regularly done Romford to Emerson Park in 4.

 

[306024]

It's advertised as 8 minutes on the public timetable and I've regularly done Romford to Emerson Park in 4.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/romford-to-upminster-timetable-december-2019.pdf

If you insist, but the timetable advertised on the internet suggests otherwise

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Re Upminster to Romford and Brockenhurst to Lymington may I ask how long “as far as I can remember is”? Or to put it more directly “are you both old”?

 

[Cricketer8for9]

The second question was meant to have a smiley. I’m trying not to be rude.

 

[30907]

The Shepperton, Hampton Court and Chessington branches have had a half hourly off peak service for just over 60 years, though the last two had a 20min peak service for longer. In fact, Shepperton may have been half hourly since electrification, which is 100-odd years. Obviously the minutes past have changed.
Incidentally, I can't think of any other ex SR service that has been so stable.

 

[bramling]

Is there a timetable thread looking at line timetables which have remained unchanged for the longest time?

If not my rules are.

1. A to B timetable must not have changed for the longest period.
2. By A and B I mean end points of a service as opposed to two intermediate stations on a through service (so Liverpool loop to New Brighton counts .but not Liverpool Lime St to St James).
3. On the Liverpool to The Wirral front the starting point is the Loop.
4. I’d also be interested if the interval is the same even if the exact minutes are different.
5. Minor changes at the start and end of traffic days don’t count. I’m broadly looking at peak/off peak timetables.
6. Other rules to follow if and when commentators seek clarification.
7. Historic information also welcome; they don’t have to be current timetables.

GN’s Cambridge to King’s Cross 2Cxx service in the up direction has occupied the same timings, give or take a minute or two, and with the same stopping pattern, since at least 1997. Incredibly this also survived the ThamesLink changes and continues to hold true. Not so in the down direction though.

The fast Cambridge services have also remained fairly constant over the same period, although nowadays they’ve fluctuated a bit more from the 1990s xx15 and xx45 timings from each end.

 

[43074]

The Peterborough - Lincoln - Doncaster and Barton on Humber to Cleethorpes are virtually unchanged since 1992, apart from some minor journey time improvements.

Stopping services on the Harrogate loop have operated in the same half hourly pattern as far as Knaresborough since the 1980s when the Class 141s were introduced.

Norwich to Sheringham has run at more or less the same xx45 time from Norwich since at least the early 90s.

Chiltern Aylesbury to Marylebone via Amersham has virtually stayed in the same timings since 1991, and even where exact minutes have been tweaked has maintained the half hourly all stations service pattern.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

On the Shepperton front has the predominant service been via Kingston since electrification?

 

[30907]

On the Shepperton front has the predominant service been via Kingston since electrification?

Yes. The 1922 Bradshaw only shows a Sunday service via Twickenham - though the weekday peak service goes back at least to 1938!
However, Upper Halliford (opened WW2) and Kempton Park don't appear.

 

[prod_pep]

There are some Merseyrail branches which have been consistent for a long time. Service intervals of all branches (except the Chester and Ellesmere Port lines) date back to not long after the Link and Loop tunnels were opened in the late 1970s.

A brief summary of the Northern Line:

Southport - Liverpool - Hunts Cross - last significant change I think was September 2001, when a tenth unit was added to the off-peak rotation. Some minor adjustments along the way for padding purposes.
Ormskirk - Liverpool - major recast in May 2018 to accommodate the new Maghull North station. A sixth unit added to the line-up and the journey is painfully slow as a result.
Kirkby - Liverpool - a very consistent timetable; must surely have last been altered in the 1990s when its departure path from Central was swapped with the Ormskirk line.

All Wirral Line times were changed in September 2001 when the branches were made self-contained to enhance reliability. Otherwise:

New Brighton - Liverpool - no changes I can think of since 2001. It has been a sedate, heavily padded route since the recast. Long dwells at Birkenhead North in the Liverpool direction.
West Kirby - Liverpool - perhaps some padding time added in places but only very minor changes since 2001.
Chester - Liverpool - one big change when the route went to four trains per hour in December 2010. It took over the Ellesmere Port line's previous paths to Hooton.
Ellesmere Port - Liverpool - in December 2010, its timetable changed completely when the Chester line's frequency was increased. Off-peak service interval unchanged since 1994 electrification.

 

[Neptune]

The Airedale and Wharfedale lines (Leeds/Bradford - Ilkley/Skipton) have barely changed since the May 2001 class 333 timetable change. Odd minute timing alterations have occurred to improve reliability, so,e additional peak services have been introduced when the 322’s arrived and the evening and Sunday timetables have altered to improve frequency but the core Monday - Saturday timetable before 1900 has largely stayed the same.

 

[sleeper fan]

Weymouth to Waterloo timetable has had the standard xx:03/xx:20 from Weymouth and xx:05/xx:35 from Waterloo for atleast 18 years probably ever since the 442s were introduced in the late 80s. So that must be a contender m correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

I'd expect it to be some small branch line with a self contained service that hasn't had a change of rolling stock or infrastructure in a long time if you're really looking for no changes at all. How long has the Slough-Windsor branch had it's timetable?

 

[Mag_seven]

The Sunday timetables on some lines must be a good bet - I'm sure the Sunday service on the Inverclyde line (Glasgow Central/Gourock/Wemyss Bay) has been more or less the same since the 80s with one train an hour from Glasgow Central to Gourock and one train an hour from Glasgow Central to Wemyss Bay with more or less the same stopping patterns.

 

[London Trains]

The Avanti (Virgin until last year) network has not changed much since the VHF timetable was put into place. London to Wolverhampton and Birmingham to Scotland were joined up a few years after VHF started, and some Blackpool services were added recently, but the main network has had little change for over 10 years.

 

[Ianno87]

Weymouth to Waterloo timetable has had the standard xx:03/xx:20 from Weymouth and xx:05/xx:35 from Waterloo for atleast 18 years probably ever since the 442s were introduced in the late 80s. So that must be a contender m correct me if I'm wrong!

The SWR 2004 timetable really has stood the test of time!

 

[aliceh]

Weymouth to Waterloo timetable has had the standard xx:03/xx:20 from Weymouth and xx:05/xx:35 from Waterloo for atleast 18 years probably ever since the 442s were introduced in the late 80s. So that must be a contender m correct me if I'm wrong!

Only 15 for these! Inthe big SWT timetable change of December 2004, they were changed. Before, you only had one an hour beyond Wareham to Weymouth, calling all stations. This got changed to the current two per hour by extending the Poole service

 

[Snow1964]

The Shepperton, Hampton Court and Chessington branches have had a half hourly off peak service for just over 60 years, though the last two had a 20min peak service for longer. In fact, Shepperton may have been half hourly since electrification, which is 100-odd years. Obviously the minutes past have changed.
Incidentally, I can't think of any other ex SR service that has been so stable.

The Kingston loop has been the same basic service since electrification in January 1916. From Kingston trains every 15 minutes, with extras in peak, so basic timetable is unchanged 104 years

Shepperton peak trains used to skip more stations, I have a late 1940s timetable and they ran fast from North Sheen to Waterloo (just checked in 1947 the 07:44 from Shepperton, reached North Sheen at 08:10 and Waterloo 08:24. I suspect North Sheen must be a candidate for the most slowed peak service trivia)

From Kingston (in 1947) the every 15 minutes on loop in peak had 08:00 arriving Waterloo at 08:27 so not exactly same, but same basic structure. It still arrives at 08:27, but now departs 07:55 so now takes 18% longer than on the beaten up post war infrastructure.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Only 15 for these! Inthe big SWT timetable change of December 2004, they were changed. Before, you only had one an hour beyond Wareham to Weymouth, calling all stations. This got changed to the current two per hour by extending the Poole service

2tph London/Weymouth wasn’t launched until 2009 well after the 442s were replaced (there were never enough 442s to provide a 2tph service all the way)

 

[Shimbleshanks]

There are some indivdual trains that had the same departure times for years. The Flying Scotsman (10am off King's Cross) before the privatisation era. And the Irish Mail was always 01.10 off Holyhead for decades before it was summarily axed by Virgin. Possibly also the Royal Scot (10.30am off Euston) in its time.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

There are some indivdual trains that had the same departure times for years. The Flying Scotsman (10am off King's Cross) before the privatisation era. And the Irish Mail was always 01.10 off Holyhead for decades before it was summarily axed by Virgin. Possibly also the Royal Scot (10.30am off Euston) in its time.

The 0110 Irish Mail wasn’t axed by Virgin it went when BR introduced HSTs on the Anglesey services in the very early 1990s. At this time the services were reduced to 3 services each way. On SX it was the up Irish Mail which was taken out but retained on SO mornings.

The departures from Holyhead were rationalised into the 05xx, 08xx and 13xx although for a while the lunchtime one was only a Bangor/Euston.

 

[PeterC]

I remember further back when an extra morning peak train used to be squeezed in, with trains running every 24 minutes until the pattern was regained. Running time between the two ends was 8 minutes, which with a DMU and no data recorders was achievable. Then electrification, with some dead sections in the overhead line under low bridges, eventually saw the running time increased to 9 minutes, and the end of the morning peak extra.

For years Liverpool St to Norwich services have traditionally left the capital from platform 9 at xx.30, which has continued even after the station was rebuilt.

In the early 70s Romford - Upminster was 2tph but intervals of 27 and 33 minutes for much of the day. I can't find any timetable in my collection (all post nationalisation) maintaining less than a 30 minute interval between more than one pair of departures. In 1950 the weekday service between the peaks dropped top 1tph.

 

[341o2]

There are some indivdual trains that had the same departure times for years. The Flying Scotsman (10am off King's Cross) before the privatisation era. And the Irish Mail was always 01.10 off Holyhead for decades before it was summarily axed by Virgin. Possibly also the Royal Scot (10.30am off Euston) in its time.

Like the North Cornwall & Bude Express from 1907 dep Waterloo 1100, became the ACE in 1926 until withdrawn 1964

Has the Cornish Riviera had any significant time changes regarding departure from Paddington, as the train first ran in 1904 and still with us today