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Trivia: lines which have never had brand new rolling stock

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adc82140

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To save pushing the new rolling stock thread off topic, are there any lines which have never had new rolling stock, but always hand me downs? Let's limit this to post nationalisation.

I'd have a punt at the Island Line.
 
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Journeyman

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I thought it was 2-HAPs (or similar) except on the few London trains (if they still ran).
I've got a book showing a 4-VEP in the Lymington bay platform at Brockenhurst in 1967, so they certainly appeared.
 

30907

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An interesting question; I think you would find some in these 2 categories:

1. Closed branches that were never DMU worked (and never had through workings from the main line).
Hawkhurst, Westerham, Allhallows, Horsham-Guildford would be the last on the SR, no doubt plenty of others around the country.

2. Surviving lines that weren't initially dieselised, AND didn't get second/third generation sets from new.
(?Tonbridge-)Redhill-Reading must qualify, provided you make inter-regional workings (XC Voyagers) a separate category.
Another possibility is the Central Wales, as the 153s were rebuilds (and I don't think the 150s were brand new when they appeared).
Any others?
 
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thenorthern

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The Rose Hill Marple line seems to have never had new stock. When privatisation happened it had Class 101s and then Class 142s and now it mostly seems to be Class 150s.
 

Dr Hoo

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An interesting question; I think you would find some in these 3 categories:

1. Closed branches that were never DMU worked (and never had through workings from the main line).
Hawkhurst, Westerham, Allhallows, Horsham-Guildford would be the last on the SR, no doubt plenty of others around the country.
As a one-time 'local' correspondent I have to be tediously pedantic and point out that the Grain/Allhallows lines enjoyed the comforts of the brand new experimental ACV diesel unit for over a month in 1953.
 

30907

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As a one-time 'local' correspondent I have to be tediously pedantic and point out that the Grain/Allhallows lines enjoyed the comforts of the brand new experimental ACV diesel unit for over a month in 1953.
And I've seen a photo of a BRCW Type 3 (Crompton, Class 33...) on a branch passenger. But - pedantry again - how new is new?
 

D7666

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I've got a book showing a 4-VEP in the Lymington bay platform at Brockenhurst in 1967, so they certainly appeared.
Veps definitely.

The Bomo project budgetted Veps for Lymington, and started out that way.

They used Haps soon as more cost effective to deploy Veps elsewhere.

But need to define the question. Lymington /would/ have got 450s from when those were brand new had it not been for faffing around with retaining Cep/Cig. Today it's got 450s, but do 450s count as "hand-me-downs" - I'd say not.

Is the question new as in "brand new out the box" or new as in the current newest of a certain type always in the area / TOC that just didn't happen to cover that line ?

And - history ? IOW - how far back do you go - I'd be pretty sure in Victorian days one or more of the independant IOW railways had new kettles if not coaches. [ ok ok not post nationalisation ]

Rose Hill Marple ? I bet that had new mechanical DMMU under one of the 1960s North West dmu schemes.

And so on.
 
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swt_passenger

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But need to define the question. Lymington /would/ have got 450s from when those were brand new had it not been for faffing around with retaining Cep/Cig. Today it's got 450s, but do 450s count as "hand-me-downs" - I'd say not.

Is the question new as in "brand new out the box" or new as in the current newest of a certain type always in the area / TOC that just didn't happen to cover that line ?
I’d also consider in this context that the Lymington branch was cleared for 450s in 2005, (eg the platform extension/raising for them at Lymington Town), and the last deliveries of the class were still taking place in 2006. During the period of retained Mk1 operation didn’t 450s routinely operate when there were train availability issues?
 

JonathanH

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2. Surviving lines that weren't initially dieselised, AND didn't get second/third generation sets from new.
(?Tonbridge-)Redhill-Reading must qualify, provided you make inter-regional workings (XC Voyagers) a separate category.
Redhill - Tonbridge might qualify in recent times. It had 508s during the Electrostar switchover on the Southeastern services but during this period it was not unknown for 375s / 377s to appear. I had 375927 between East Croydon and Purley (ie from the Tonbridge line) in August 2004 when nearly new. I seem to recall that one was booked alongside the 508s.

Reading to Redhill / Gatwick is a little more difficult - no Turbos were built specifically for the line - however, the delivery of the final 166s to the Thames division (19 ordered by NSE with the final 2 part of a swap deal on the Cotswold line - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/1980s-fleet-plans-for-waterloo-to-exeter.206408/#post-4666197) was broadly concurrent with the initial change of the North Downs Line to Turbo operation - nominally, the conversion of the North Downs Line to Turbos was enabled with the transfer of 165001-165007 from Aylesbury to Reading.

Did 155s work Westbury to Weymouth when new? That route may be in with a chance of qualifying as 150s were secondhand and 158s most likely didn't go there new.
 
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30907

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Redhill - Tonbridge might qualify in recent times. It had 508s during the Electrostar switchover on the Southeastern services but during this period it was not unknown for 375s / 377s to appear. I had 375927 between East Croydon and Purley (ie from the Tonbridge line) in August 2004 when nearly new. I seem to recall that one was booked alongside the 508s.
I have a memory that there was a morning Redhill-Hastings DEMU from the beginning of the full Hastings diesel timetable, hence my query.
Reading to Redhill / Gatwick is a little more difficult - no Turbos were built specifically for the line - however, the delivery of the final 166s to the Thames division (19 ordered by NSE with the final 2 part of a swap deal on the Cotswold line - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/1980s-fleet-plans-for-waterloo-to-exeter.206408/#post-4666197) was broadly concurrent with the initial change of the North Downs Line to Turbo operation - nominally, the conversion of the North Downs Line to Turbos was enabled with the transfer of 165001-165007 from Aylesbury to Reading.
I hadn't realised - in that case they could reasonably be classed as new! Ah well.
Did 155s work Westbury to Weymouth when new? That route may be in with a chance of qualifying as 150s were secondhand and 158s most likely didn't go there new.that
Diesel units started working to Weymouth (and Bridport) in 1959 so I think they would count as new. I don't know about the 155s.
 

D7666

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I have a memory that there was a morning Redhill-Hastings DEMU from the beginning of the full Hastings diesel timetable, hence my query.

I hadn't realised - in that case they could reasonably be classed as new! Ah well.

Diesel units started working to Weymouth (and Bridport) in 1959 so I think they would count as new. I don't know about the 155s.
Yes 155s did work Weymouth from new, but, as you rightly say, older then new mechanical units also did.

The GRCW cross country sets squadron service was new units to a whole mass of regional lines radiating from Bristol, never mind other contempoary DMMU types.

I’d also consider in this context that the Lymington branch was cleared for 450s in 2005, (eg the platform extension/raising for them at Lymington Town), and the last deliveries of the class were still taking place in 2006. During the period of retained Mk1 operation didn’t 450s routinely operate when there were train availability issues?
Yes (2005 cleared while 450 still in build) and yes 450 routinely covered in that period.
 

zuriblue

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The Rose Hill Marple line seems to have never had new stock. When privatisation happened it had Class 101s and then Class 142s and now it mostly seems to be Class 150s.

When I was a kid and the Rose Hill line still ran through to Macclesfield (the Rose-Hill - Macc bit closed in 1971) it tended to see 101s but 101s were pretty new then. I never saw a kettle on it.
 

30907

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So if we ignore reopenings we seem to have the Island Line (dead cert there!) and my suggestion of the Central Wales - anyone know about the 150s on that line?
 

Wtloild

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Blackburn to Man Vic probably had brand new 142s/150s at some point, but they'd have been vintage when the Blackburn-Clitheroe stretch opened.
As far as I'm aware, no 195s have gone to Clitheroe.
 

30907

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Blackburn to Man Vic probably had brand new 142s/150s at some point, but they'd have been vintage when the Blackburn-Clitheroe stretch opened.
As far as I'm aware, no 195s have gone to Clitheroe.
Would Blackburn-Hellifield have had new 1st generation DMUs though, or did it stay steam till closure in 1962?
 

Snow1964

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Swanage Branch ?
It did get some new 3TC and 4TC sets 1967, but these were made up of secondhand mark1s so strictly not new
 

30907

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Swanage Branch ?
It did get some new 3TC and 4TC sets 1967, but these were made up of secondhand mark1s so strictly not new
New (hauled) stock was built for Waterloo-Swanage portions of Weymouth trains quite regularly, the last being the Mk1 set for the Royal Wessex in 1951. Of course the branch trains themselves were another matter....

The same can be said for all the West Country branches that had through coaches from Waterloo during the week.
 

Strathclyder

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Would the reopened Larkhall branch fall under the OP's criteria? When opened in December 2005, the newest stock serving the branch were 334s, which ceased production roughly 3 years prior (so new-ish). 385s haven't been down that way as far as I'm aware, but am willing to be corrected if need be.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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Conwy valley? I know they had 101's and the like until quite late, I don't think any sprinters started on the line (apart from gauging) until they had been in service for a while. So unless I am mistaken it has never had any new stock.

This will change when the new 230s are used on the line.
 

zwk500

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Conwy valley? I know they had 101's and the like until quite late, I don't think any sprinters started on the line (apart from gauging) until they had been in service for a while. So unless I am mistaken it has never had any new stock.

This will change when the new 230s are used on the line.
If the 230s are new then so are the 484s, and the Island line was accepted as never having had new stock.
 

A0wen

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As a one-time 'local' correspondent I have to be tediously pedantic and point out that the Grain/Allhallows lines enjoyed the comforts of the brand new experimental ACV diesel unit for over a month in 1953.

I was going to suggest the Abbey Flyer, but I have a funny feeling that saw the ACV unit as well.

But if we're going more recently then I'll suggest the Abbey Flyer which ended up with cast off DMUs from other places, then 313s which had been cascaded to the Watford DC services from the GN, then the 321s after they'd been set to work on the mainline and then more recently 319s.
 

30907

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Conwy valley? I know they had 101's and the like until quite late, I don't think any sprinters started on the line (apart from gauging) until they had been in service for a while. So unless I am mistaken it has never had any new stock.

This will change when the new 230s are used on the line.
http://www.penmorfa.com/Conwy/intro.htm
Derby lightweights in 1956, Sprinters (150s) and (briefly) Pacers in 1986.
These would certainly fall into the "nearly new" category rather than "cascaded", so it depends on your definition.
 
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