[Trivia] Lines with the MOST fare evasion

[DanTrain]

Following on from the least fare evasion thread, which lines have the most fare evasion. I’ll nominate Sheffield to Meadowhall as a good start, no barriers, very rarely any ticket checks on the <10 min journey and if you are checked you can just buy one on board!

 

[Intermodal]

The Durham coast line, specifically Hartlepool and surrounding areas, although they do have barriers at Hartlepool now.

Merseyrail lines. When I was younger nobody bought a ticket, including myself, and if you had to go to Liverpool you just went to Lime St and got in the lift to avoid the barriers. I doubt it's changed.

 

[Iskra]

Following on from the least fare evasion thread, which lines have the most fare evasion. I’ll nominate Sheffield to Meadowhall as a good start, no barriers, very rarely any ticket checks on the <10 min journey and if you are checked you can just buy one on board!

Meadowhall has RPI's stationed there nearly all the time, who don't let you through without a ticket.

I would say Chapeltown-Elsecar-Wombwell-Barnsley. The trains are often too busy/long for the guard to get through so the chancers all go to the opposite end of the train and generally get a free ride.

Dewsbury- Huddersfield used to be another one due to the pubs offering a way round the barriers and the TPE trains being too busy for a guard to get through. Not used Dewsbury for a while now and it's got barriers now I believe.

Batley-Dewsbury again used to be a common one but the barriers at Dewsbury could have stopped it now.

 

[bionic]

Southeastern must be near the top of the TOCs I reckon.

North Kent Line... An RPI once told me nobody buys a ticket at Swanscombe.

Pretty much the whole of Southeastern metro services I'd say. The bulk of the punters travelling to Brixton don't pay and many who get on further down the line jump out quickly there to touch in and get back on the same train so they can touch out at Victoria.

Sheppey poppers and Strood - Maidstone on the Medway Valley. I've never even seen a guard check tickets on that route as it's often not safe for them to do so.


It's SE country but GTR trains now...
St Mary Cray to Bat and Ball is rife. The Catford Loop is another one. Try standing at Bellingham or Catford and see how many people touch out off peak and at night... Maybe 10%. I can't imagine the other 90% hold paper tickets!

Pretty much anything that's DOO is a freebie for those who are so inclined, especially in the evenings.

 

[DanTrain]

Meadowhall has RPI's stationed there nearly all the time, who don't let you through without a ticket.

I would say Chapeltown-Elsecar-Wombwell-Barnsley. The trains are often too busy/long for the guard to get through so the chancers all go to the opposite end of the train and generally get a free ride.

Checks at Meadowhell must be fairly new, I’ve not been out that way in a while.

The Chapeltown-Barnsley stretch is far from unique on Northern, I think the Penistone line has been discussed before for being bad, and the Dore-Sheffield hop is bad too for ‘I’ll pay on the train but probably won’t have to’. Ironically I often see RPIs at Dore, but rarely actually checking tickets, they often seem to be boarding a train sonewhere first.

 

[DanTrain]

Southeastern must be near the top of the TOCs I reckon.

North Kent Line... An RPI once told me nobody buys a ticket at Swanscombe.

Pretty much the whole of Southeastern metro services I'd say. The bulk of the punters travelling to Brixton don't pay and many who get on further down the line jump out quickly there to touch in and get back on the same train so they can touch out at Victoria.

Sheppey poppers and Strood - Maidstone on the Medway Valley. I've never even seen a guard check tickets on that route as it's often not safe for them to do so.


It's SE country but GTR trains now...
St Mary Cray to Bat and Ball is rife. The Catford Loop is another one. Try standing at Bellingham or Catford and see how many people touch out off peak and at night... Maybe 10%. I can't imagine the other 90% hold paper tickets!

Pretty much anything that's DOO is a freebie for those who are so inclined, especially in the evenings.

Not an area I really know but wouldn’t surprise me. Sounds like some barriers are in order, surely DOO pretty much necessitates barriers these days?

 

[Iskra]

Checks at Meadowhell must be fairly new, I’ve not been out that way in a while.

The Chapeltown-Barnsley stretch is far from unique on Northern, I think the Penistone line has been discussed before for being bad, and the Dore-Sheffield hop is bad too for ‘I’ll pay on the train but probably won’t have to’. Ironically I often see RPIs at Dore, but rarely actually checking tickets, they often seem to be boarding a train sonewhere first.

It's been happening all the two years I've been living in Sheffield. The Penistone services do sometimes have both a guard and a conductor onboard which helps them a lot doing revenue.

The whole Northern network after 6pm away from the large stations with barriers is wide-open to those wanting a free ride.

 

[bionic]

Not an area I really know but wouldn’t surprise me. Sounds like some barriers are in order, surely DOO pretty much necessitates barriers these days?

Most local stations on SE don't have barriers. Most people who don't want to pay just double through or jump over anyway so barriers aren't a deterrent to the hard-core fare evaders in SE London. They would certainly be more of a deterrent to the middle class Bickley types who think its ok to bunk their fare to Brixton or Elephant and just pay for the zone 1&2 tube journey though.

 

[Dr Hoo]

It's been happening all the two years I've been living in Sheffield. The Penistone services do sometimes have both a guard and a conductor onboard which helps them a lot doing revenue.

The whole Northern network after 6pm away from the large stations with barriers is wide-open to those wanting a free ride.

And the Meadowhall line is on Penalty Fares now. Definitely not the worst for evasion by a long chalk. Regular BT Police presence (with automatic firearms) on platforms at Sheffield also helps spook passengers into paying.

 

[Kite159]

Crosscity line & Snow Hill lines must have it's fare share of dodgers (or those buying to Five Ways/Jewellery Quarter to get past the barriers when they are in use)

I dare say some might even ditch the train at Jewellery Quarter and jump on a tram for the final mile

 

[sheff1]

Regular BT Police presence (with automatic firearms) on platforms at Sheffield also helps spook passengers into paying.

In three decades of frequent travel from/to Sheffield station I have seen armed police there precisely once. Judging by the number of people who still pay on board leaving Sheffield on the locals it would appear many have not been spooked by either police or Northern's Penalty Fare scheme.

From my comparatively limited observations, I would agree that SE London seems a fare evasion hotspot. Never seems much attempt to sell/check tickets on board down there - at least Northern make an effort most of the time.

 

[Qwerty133]

I think theres also the question of lines where large numbers of passengers genuinely do not have an opportunity to purchase due to passenger volumes exceeding that a guard can reasonably sell to during the duration of the journey and a lack of facilities at stations. Going by this definition Sheringham to Cromer sees significant numbers of passengers travel without paying during the summer months as I imagine do other coastal branch lines with unstaffed stations without TVMs.
For a line with barriers at the end I think there is a large amount of fare avoidance between Narborough and South Wigston and Leicester as a guards have started cashing up before arriving at Narborough and the barrier staff at Leicester see selling tickets as too difficult so don't bother.

 

[Termy]

If we are including tube lines, most of the DLR network seems to have been built with fare evasion in mind. No gate lines, very few revenue checks on board...

 

[yorkie]

It's SE country but GTR trains now...
St Mary Cray to Bat and Ball is rife. The Catford Loop is another one. Try standing at Bellingham or Catford and see how many people touch out off peak and at night... Maybe 10%. I can't imagine the other 90% hold paper tickets!

Pretty much anything that's DOO is a freebie for those who are so inclined, especially in the evenings.

Do the OBS staff not check tickets on the DOO services that have them?

If we are including tube lines, most of the DLR network seems to have been built with fare evasion in mind. No gate lines, very few revenue checks on board...

I don't think I've ever seen a PSA encounter someone without a ticket. OK so I am not a regular user, but I have used the DLR, and had my ticket checked, several dozens of times!

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Most local stations on SE don't have barriers. Most people who don't want to pay just double through or jump over anyway so barriers aren't a deterrent to the hard-core fare evaders in SE London. They would certainly be more of a deterrent to the middle class Bickley types who think its ok to bunk their fare to Brixton or Elephant and just pay for the zone 1&2 tube journey though.

I fully agree when busy stations like Shortlands & Beckenham Junction don't have barriers, ticket offices that are open extended hours and barely any station staff in the first place it doesn't shock me to hear about people tapping in a Brixton to be able to tap out at Victoria

Busy stations on both the Tonbridge lines and the Medway towns lines are also easy pickings for free journeys as intermediate although still busy stations are easy to avoid ticket checks at, or not barriered full stop
I. E Rainham, Swanley, Teynham or Headcorn, Staplehurst even Paddock wood!
I do a regular commute Aylesham to Beckenham Junction (to catch a tram to Croydon) and I've not been asked to see a ticket in nearly 6 months both are in barriered and even a Tweet to SE_Railway suggested that they have regular patrols at those stations with RPOs (which is complete bull) and that I shouldn't worry about it, the conductor at that time in the morning seems pre-occupied early in the journey with the doors (when DOO kicks in) followed on by sitting in the rear cab (with their coffee and breakfast) it's crazy, then the return home normally involves a barrier check at Victoria but nothing again by the conductor, they'd have a filled day stopping the little scrots if they actually felt like it

 

[yorkie]

... the conductor at that time in the morning seems pre-occupied early in the journey with the doors (when DOO kicks in) followed on by sitting in the rear cab (with their coffee and breakfast) it's crazy, then the return home normally involves a barrier check at Victoria but nothing again by the conductor, they'd have a filled day stopping the little scrots if they actually felt like it

It's nothing to do with the operation of the train they are not checking tickets either way.

Companies like Southeastern could do with staff whose primary role is to check tickets, like they have up in Glasgow.

 

[greaterwest]

The line between Haslemere and Guildford is a massive hotspot for fare evasion, colloquially known as the "free line" by a number of people I know.

Although that could come to an end with the recent installation of barriers at Godalming.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

It's nothing to do with the operation of the train they are not checking tickets either way.

Companies like Southeastern could do with staff whose primary role is to check tickets, like they have up in Glasgow.

I couldn't agree with you more it bugs me enough that I pay crazy amounts of money during peak for my journey (for a pretty piss poor service) and they aren't bothered with checking tickets!

 

[robbeech]

Short hops on intercity services seem to be one. I get the LNER stopper from Retford to York quite regularly (it terminates at York) and I’ve had 1 ticket check in the last probably 50. And that was because there was staff training going on. I find that the last couple of stops on some of these routes seem to be a time for train staff to tidy up and get ready to leave. With Retford to York prices as they are there would be s huge incentive for someone to not buy a ticket.

 

[cuccir]

If the Disputes and Prosecutions forum is anything to by, nobody has bought a ticket in the Cardiff area in the last dozen years or so

Going back 20 years, Lancaster-Preston was very prone to fare evasion - short journey, long trains. I think there are barriers at Preston now, and more RPIs - not sure if that's fixed it??

 

[swt class 450]

I would say that the Portsmouth Harbour to Southampton Central line must be near the top. It seems to get a very high amount of fare evasion especially on the all stations stopping trains run by SWT (despite the fact that the Guards on these trains regularly walk through and check tickets). Almost every time i use these all stations stopping SWT trains there is someone fare evading. There are also a lot of people on this line who refuse to pay when the Guards check tickets and also refuse to get off the train so the Guard just has to let them travel for free (delaying the train just annoys other passengers and the company).

The entire Southern Rail network also gets a huge amount of fare evasion. These days nobody ever checks tickets and the ticket barriers at most stations are left wide open. The OBS are always hiding in the rear cab or just sitting in the passenger saloon area on their phones or reading a paper. Despite what Southern Rail told us the OBS very rarely walk through the train or make themselves visible or check tickets. Funnily the remaining Guards (such as on the Uckfield line 171 trains) seem to be much better at checking tickets than the OBS are.

Also the Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey line seems to get a lot of fare evasion. So many people never seem to buy a ticket and the Guards on this line never seem to leave the rear cab to check tickets.

There are probably lots of others throughout the UK. Fare evasion is very easy in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if we had the highest amount of fare evasion in Europe.

 

[LowLevel]

I would say that the Portsmouth Harbour to Southampton Central line must be near the top. It seems to get a very high amount of fare evasion especially on the all stations stopping trains run by SWT (despite the fact that the Guards on these trains regularly walk through and check tickets). Almost every time i use these all stations stopping SWT trains there is someone fare evading. There are also a lot of people on this line who refuse to pay when the Guards check tickets and also refuse to get off the train so the Guard just has to let them travel for free (delaying the train just annoys other passengers and the company).

The entire Southern Rail network also gets a huge amount of fare evasion. These days nobody ever checks tickets and the ticket barriers at most stations are left wide open. The OBS are always hiding in the rear cab or just sitting in the passenger saloon area on their phones or reading a paper. Despite what Southern Rail told us the OBS very rarely walk through the train or make themselves visible or check tickets. Funnily the remaining Guards (such as on the Uckfield line 171 trains) seem to be much better at checking tickets than the OBS are.

Also the Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey line seems to get a lot of fare evasion. So many people never seem to buy a ticket and the Guards on this line never seem to leave the rear cab to check tickets.

There are probably lots of others throughout the UK. Fare evasion is very easy in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if we had the highest amount of fare evasion in Europe.

Don't tell anyone - it's certain folks' mantra on here that removing a crew member's safety critical status and training by making them no longer a guard automatically means they'll never set foot in the rear cab and be a veritable ray of sunshine on permanent display like a fish in a tank in a dentist's surgery, swimming, I mean, striding up and down the train constantly greeting all they meet from 0001 to 2359. It's also rubbish but hey ho! Southern had already barred their guards from working from the rear cab in normal circumstances long before DOO spread and so have ScotRail.

The Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey line is an interesting one - it was DOO for many years and went back to being guard operated due to the rolling stock being changed first to 321s then 319s when Silverlink ceased to be and London Midland didn't get any 313s allocated. The DOO equipment wasn't suitable for the longer trains. The 319s can only have their doors operated from the cab which doesn't leave much time for running up and down a 4 car train anyway. Stations are on average 2 minutes apart.

It didn't have any staff at all working on board when it was DOO as far as I recall.

 

[LancasterRed]

Going back 20 years, Lancaster-Preston was very prone to fare evasion - short journey, long trains. I think there are barriers at Preston now, and more RPIs - not sure if that's fixed it??

Preston has no barriers but has checks occasionally on platforms 3/4/3c/4c. However these checks are sporadic and it is not often that every entrance to these platforms is covered by the staff checking.

Fare evasion in this area is very common.

 

[AntoniC]

The Durham coast line, specifically Hartlepool and surrounding areas, although they do have barriers at Hartlepool now.

Merseyrail lines. When I was younger nobody bought a ticket, including myself, and if you had to go to Liverpool you just went to Lime St and got in the lift to avoid the barriers. I doubt it's changed.

In Merseyrail land the only stations with barriers are either terminal stations (like Southport) or major stations (such as Moorfields).
As for the lift at Lime St I have been ticket checked (Once) getting out of the lift and have also been ticket checked (once) in the connecting corrider at Moorfields between the Northern line & Wirral Line platforms.
Also you need to remember that Merseyrail guards are not commercial guards and so there is no incentive for guards to conduct ticket checks , a minority do the majority dont.
Merseyrail also use RPI`s for ticket checks.

 

[Matt_pool]

Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Oxford Road.

The only stations with barriers are Liverpool South Parkway, Warrington Central and Man Oxford Road.

Lime Street only has barriers on platforms 1 - 5, but all (or nearly all) Northern services to Manchester Oxford Road now use platforms 6 - 10, so if you are going to any of the intermediary stations not inc South Parkway and Warrington Central you are laughing!

9 times out of 10 the conductor doesn't bother coming through the train, and if they do you can just buy a ticket. If it's a Pacer joined up to a Sprinter, or two Pacers joined up, there's no incentive at all for the conductor to check tickets.

And if its a rush hour train with 2 carriage that is standing room only (not uncommon with Northern) or the last train of the evening on a Friday night where everyone is packed in like sardines the conductor doesn't bother going through the train. Last train on a Saturday used to be the same, but with the strikes, well...

 

[bionic]

If we are including tube lines, most of the DLR network seems to have been built with fare evasion in mind. No gate lines, very few revenue checks on board...

Croydon Tramlink is another freebie for most people.

Do the OBS staff not check tickets on the DOO services that have them?

There are no OBS on Southeastern metro or any Thameslink trains. They are literally DOO. SE only have guards on trains that go beyond Sevenoaks, Otford (Maidstone line), Swanley (Sole St line) and Gillingham (North Kent). Anywhere inside there there is a very, very low chance of anyone's ticket being checked.

 

[yorkie]

There are no OBS on Southeastern metro or any Thameslink trains. They are literally DOO. SE only have guards on trains that go beyond Sevenoaks, Otford (Maidstone line), Swanley (Sole St line) and Gillingham (North Kent). Anywhere inside there there is a very, very low chance of anyone's ticket being checked.

Yes I know that.

There has been a misunderstanding as you said "GTR trains now [....] Pretty much anything..." so I thought you meant anything on GTR.

It also doesn't make sense to say "literally" in the context you have; the operation of the train is a separate matter as to whether or not there is an OBM/OBS.

 

[tbtc]

Companies like Southeastern could do with staff whose primary role is to check tickets, like they have up in Glasgow.

Agreed - Glasgow is the kind of urban area where there could be significant amounts of ticketless travel (big city, economic factors, potential for a cultural reluctance to pay for tickets) but the staff there seem on the ball, so it doesn't have the reputation that (say) Liverpool/ Cardiff have. Other places could learn a lot from Glasgow.

Croydon Tramlink is another freebie for most people

Interesting - because the Stagecoach staff on the Supertram in Sheffield are very good at checking tickets (and generally being a visible presence).

Also interesting that nobody has mentioned many long rural routes (other than the Penistone line) because whenever I question the poor passenger numbers on the Forum I'm quickly told that services are packed (and the train service is therefore a lifeline to these communities) but ticketless travel means that this conveniently isn't reflected in any official figures!

 

[DarloRich]

Are any statistics published in this area? Otherwise this is simply gut feel with no way to asses and compare the levels of fare evasion on each line suggested

 

[sd0733]

The 3 areas I work with massive amounts are out of Liverpool to runcorn/Hartford/winsford, Stafford to rugeley/Lichfield and also to Penkridge and Stone and also Tamworth-atherstone/Nuneaton.
So many pay when challenged it's unbelievable and also the no money/fell asleep instantly/ blocked card/ insert any excuse can think of brigade train after train after train.