Trivia: Obsolete or unusual stop position or boarding point markers etc.

[py_megapixel]

Even though Stonehouse and Stroud stations are entirely served by IETs these days, it still retains signage for "Cycle HST Loading Point". I think there are also stop markers for HSTs still in place as well.

Cheltenham Spa has stop markings for "VT 220/221", even though Virgin Trains lost the crosscountry franchise years ago at this point!

Cheadle Hulme has the rather bizarre signage "Trains stop 10 metres to the right" ten metres ahead of the stopping point on the northbound Stoke platform, and it's oriented to be read by passengers rather than the driver - what is the point of this, as there is no way anything shorter than 10 metres would ever use that platform, and in any case you don't want to be stood right at the front as that's where the cab door is!

Any other examples of obsolete or unusual signage relating to position or length of trains, such as stop markers for withdrawn fleets?

 

[StephenHunter]

Euston also has a HST stop board - although it's a terminus station, it's also 'underground' and so you need to position the power under the air vent.

Stratford Platform 10 has a board saying "? Romford" to remind GA drivers to double check if they are stopping at Romford; some GA services call there off-peak.

My personal favourite example is the ones for the Caledonian Sleeper - "ZZ Car Stop".

 

[hexagon789]

Even though Stonehouse and Stroud stations are entirely served by IETs these days, it still retains signage for "HST Loading Point". I think there are also stop markers for HSTs still in place as well.

Cheltenham Spa has stop markings for "VT 220/221", even though Virgin Trains lost the crosscountry franchise years ago at this point!

Cheadle Hulme has the rather bizarre signage "Trains stop 10 metres to the right" ten metres ahead of the stopping point on the northbound Stoke platform, and it's oriented to be read by passengers rather than the driver - what is the point of this, as there is no way anything shorter than 10 metres would ever use that platform, and in any case you don't want to be stood right at the front as that's where the cab door is!

Any other examples of obsolete or unusual signage relating to position or length of trains, such as stop markers for withdrawn fleets?

There are still quite a few 'VT' stop markers around the network at stations served by CrossCountry Voyagers, a legacy of course of when Virgin held that franchise.

Still HST markers dotted around at stations no longer visited by them.

Until a few years ago Glasgow Queen Street still had HST stopping markers on platforms 6 and 7, even though HSTs (other than the ScotRail I7C ones) hadn't visited since 1989. I think they were removed in 2016

 

[Mag_seven]

There are still "H" car stop markers at Falkirk High (I think?) which date back to the days when HSTs used to call there on Glasgow Queen St to Kings Cross workings.

 

[Jimini]

Euston also has a HST stop board - although it's a terminus station, it's also 'underground' and so you need to position the power under the air vent.

Stratford Platform 10 has a board saying "? Romford" to remind GA drivers to double check if they are stopping at Romford; some GA services call there off-peak.

My personal favourite example is the ones for the Caledonian Sleeper - "ZZ Car Stop".

There's one of those at Shenfield too aye ("Romford?").

 

[DanNCL]

There are still 373 stop markers at some locations on the East Coast Main Line. There are also still 91+Mark 4 stop boards at the stations north of York which are no longer served by 91s.

 

[Peter C]

Kingham, and I assume Charlbury too, both have HST stop markers. They're on the Cotswold Line, which hasn't seen a HST since May 2019, and the thing which really interests me is that they have both 2+7 and 2+8 stop car markers, despite all the HSTs I saw on the route were 2+8 sets. I believe FGW ran some 2+7 HSTs at one point when they were stretched for coaches?

-Peter

 

[StephenHunter]

Kingham, and I assume Charlbury too, both have HST stop markers. They're on the Cotswold Line, which hasn't seen a HST since May 2019, and the thing which really interests me is that they have both 2+7 and 2+8 stop car markers, despite all the HSTs I saw on the route were 2+8 sets. I believe FGW ran some 2+7 HSTs at one point when they were stretched for coaches?

-Peter

BR Western Region started with 2+7s.

 

[Kieran1990]

I thin the V/T signs have remained as it can also stand for ‘Voyager Trains’
Manchester Victoria still have V/T stop markers on Plat 3 & 4 from VCX diversions via Vic, Miles Platting & Denton

 

[Peter C]

BR Western Region started with 2+7s.

Ah OK - thanks.

-Peter

 

[XAM2175]

My personal favourite example is the ones for the Caledonian Sleeper - "ZZ Car Stop".

I believe the "ZZ" is a reference not specifically to the sleepers but rather to freight operators in general, as they (currently GBRf) provide the traction and drivers for the Caledonian Sleeper services.

There are still "H" car stop markers at Falkirk High (I think?) which date back to the days when HSTs used to call there on Glasgow Queen St to Kings Cross workings.

Co-incidentally "H" is the standard car stop marker in Germany, derived from "Halt".

 

[hexagon789]

There are still "H" car stop markers at Falkirk High (I think?) which date back to the days when HSTs used to call there on Glasgow Queen St to Kings Cross workings.

I wondered if there were still any on the E&G but I assumed not. I think some of the smaller stations on the Edinburgh-Dundee line might still have them even though they've not been served by HSTs for many years.

There are still 373 stop markers at some locations on the East Coast Main Line. There are also still 91+Mark 4 stop boards at the stations north of York which are no longer served by 91s.

Surprised they've not got rid of them yet!

Kingham, and I assume Charlbury too, both have HST stop markers. They're on the Cotswold Line, which hasn't seen a HST since May 2019, and the thing which really interests me is that they have both 2+7 and 2+8 stop car markers, despite all the HSTs I saw on the route were 2+8 sets. I believe FGW ran some 2+7 HSTs at one point when they were stretched for coaches?

-Peter

Asides from the original 253 sets, FGW did indeed run some 2+7 high-density sets sans buffet car, I forget the reasoning behind it but I don't believe it was trailer shortages. It was fairly short lived as well in the grand scheme of thingsm

 

[221129]

There are still quite a few 'VT' stop markers around the network at stations served by CrossCountry Voyagers, a legacy of course of when Virgin held that franchise.

And they will be around for as long as Voyagers are, due to standing for Voyager Train...

Cheltenham Spa has stop markings for "VT 220/221

I should hope so! Seeing as it is served multiple times per hour by Voyager Trains!

 

[hexagon789]

And they will be around for as long as Voyagers are, due to standing for Voyager Train...

As in they only ever stood for that or they usefully can also stand for that?

 

[_toommm_]

Piccadilly platforms 13 and 14 has grouped their stop boards to have one for 2 Car Pacers, 2 Cars, 3 Cars, then a very broad 4-11 Car.

4-11 is unusual in that its probably the broadest stop board out there, and I can’t imagine anything comes close.

 

[221129]

Euston also has a HST stop board

And is used by the NMT so makes sense really...

As in they only ever stood for that or they usefully can also stand for that?

As far as I know they always stood for that.

 

[Halish Railway]

There’s an S car stop sign on Guiseley platform 2 from the days of 308s and 3 car 333s - If the 4 car trains that currently stop at the station stopped there then the entire train wouldn’t fit into the platform.

 

[hexagon789]

As far as I know they always stood for that.

I ask as I'm sure I've seen 'VT 8/9 CAR' ones somewhere which originally applied to Pendolinos, so I presumed they meant 'Virgin Trains'.

 

[Peter C]

Asides from the original 253 sets, FGW did indeed run some 2+7 high-density sets sans buffet car, I forget the reasoning behind it but I don't believe it was trailer shortages. It was fairly short lived as well in the grand scheme of thingsm

Ah OK - thanks for the info
I've almost certainly got something muddled up then; I seem to remember reading somewhere on here of a HST set which ran with all buffet cars once and I think I've linked it in my mind to that!

-Peter

 

[221129]

I ask as I'm sure I've seen 'VT 8/9 CAR' ones somewhere which originally applied to Pendolinos, so I presumed they meant 'Virgin Trains'.

VT 8/9 would be for a double Voyager.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I believe the "ZZ" is a reference not specifically to the sleepers but rather to freight operators in general, as they (currently GBRf) provide the traction and drivers for the Caledonian Sleeper services.


Co-incidentally "H" is the standard car stop marker in Germany, derived from "Halt".

There is (or was) a map ZZ in the routeing guide for the Caledonian Sleeper. I always assumed that was why they used ZZ for the stop boards, but what you say makes more sense!

 

[Mag_seven]

VT 8/9 would be for a double Voyager.

Then one would assume there would be a "VT 10" somewhere nearby?

 

[Flange Squeal]

Longcross and Isleworth have stock specific marks, with special '8 455' markers. Longcross has the common 'S' marks on each platform at which Class 450s and 458s stop, but on the same posts are white signs with '8 455' crossed out. There is then a separate '8 455' marker on the platform ramps. This is due to the platform being very tight, so with the 450s and 458s gaining the more adaptable automatic SDO systems, the marks for those were moved back slightly. This means an 8 car 450 now hangs off the back, with only 7 coaches opening as seen in this photo. 455s don't have selective door operation capability, so continue to stop at the ramps, hence the separate markers. Isleworth has the same layout on the up with 455s going right up to the end of the platform and other stock stopping further back. Another contributory factory at this location may also be the close proximity of the mark to the starting signal and subsequent risk and sighting issues, as seen in this photo. Before the 458s were lengthened, there were just 4 and 8 car marks, with seperate white '450 car stop' marks above the 4 car marks.

Woking platform 1 has an 'X car stop' marker just beyond the 12 car mark at the end of the platform. This is where trains should stop when they are having portions attaching to the rear. When an 8 car is in the platform and a 4 car is attaching, the AWS magnet is right under where the attachment is made. This can cause issues if the attaching train comes to a stand on top of it, as the AWS alarm will sound but can't then be cancelled as it will continue sounding due to being above the magnet. By making the train being attached to stop a few feet beyond the 12 car mark, this gives the attaching train a bit more leeway when completing the attachment procedure.

An example of an obsolete sign still in position is a marker board on Clapham Yard 49 Road labelled 'TMST', which stood for 'TransManche Super Train'. It was for when Eurostar were still running out of Waterloo and reversals were often made at Clapham for accessing North Pole Depot.

 

[221129]

Then one would assume there would be a "VT 10" somewhere nearby?

I would have thought so

 

[Halish Railway]

Then one would assume there would be a "VT 10" somewhere nearby?

The only place where 10 coach Voyagers run is on the West Coast Mainline and they just stop at the Pendolino 9/11 stop markers. CrossCountry don’t operate 10 car Voyagers due to platforms not being long enough, specifically at Chesterfield.

 

[221129]

specifically at Chesterfield

There are numerous more stations then just Chesterfield that can't take a 10 car XC.

CrossCountry don’t operate 10 car Voyagers

Not ideally, but it can and does happen.

 

[StephenHunter]

There is (or was) a map ZZ in the routeing guide for the Caledonian Sleeper. I always assumed that was why they used ZZ for the stop boards, but what you say makes more sense!

It is of course apt for a sleeper train.

 

[popeter45]

not a stopping point marker but Swansea still has this old "purple zone" marker that looks like it from early FGW days like a boarding zone

 

[Mag_seven]

I've spotted this VT 8 / 10 car stop marker photo by "Adam Bryant 1" on Flickr but no location given:

VT 8/10 Car Stop | Adam Bryant 1 | Flickr

 

[hexagon789]

Ah OK - thanks for the info
I've almost certainly got something muddled up then; I seem to remember reading somewhere on here of a HST set which ran with all buffet cars once and I think I've linked it in my mind to that!

-Peter

I think I know what you mean, and I believe that was an ECS or training run I forget the details.

VT 8/9 would be for a double Voyager.

I knew I'd read about it standing for Virgin Trains somewhere. On railsigns the page on stopping markers lists them as applying to both 390s and Voyagers and provides an example 8/9-car board for Pendolinos