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Trivia: Rebuilt/refurbished rolling stock subsequently unused

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Journeyman

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Following on from the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the class 442 debacle, I was wondering if anything similar had happened in the past.

Are there any other examples of trains extensively modified, refurbished and/or retractioned, only for them to see little or no use afterwards, and for the trains to be subsequently withdrawn?

I suppose the class 29s count, as the re-engined ones only lasted a few years and the whole class barely outlasted their unmodified class 21 brethren, but have any classes seen less post-rebuild use than that?
 
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zwk500

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Presumably the 37s that were refurbed for Nighstar come into this?
Also arguably the Class 67s, which were expensively modified to be certified to 125mph but then barely every used at that speed, I think? 67s are arguable as they weren't rebuilt as such, but the original design was refused permission to run above 110mph at first.
 

Journeyman

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Presumably the 37s that were refurbed for Nighstar come into this?
They were certainly never used for their intended purpose, but I think most of them saw use elsewhere for some time. However, you've reminded me of the generator vehicles rebuilt from Mark 3 sleepers - pretty sure most of those just sat around rotting before disposal.
 

DanNCL

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Another recent example is London Underground's Asset Inspection Train. This was formed from extensively modified 1967 and 1972 mk1 stock carriages, it sat idle for several years, and was taken away for scrap a few weeks ago without ever being used for it's intended purpose as an infrastructre monitoring train.
 

bramling

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Following on from the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the class 442 debacle, I was wondering if anything similar had happened in the past.

Are there any other examples of trains extensively modified, refurbished and/or retractioned, only for them to see little or no use afterwards, and for the trains to be subsequently withdrawn?

I suppose the class 29s count, as the re-engined ones only lasted a few years and the whole class barely outlasted their unmodified class 21 brethren, but have any classes seen less post-rebuild use than that?

One could include the 365s at the moment, especially the units stored since 2018, who will have seen only a couple of years use after their mid life refurbishment.
 

Journeyman

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One could include the 365s at the moment, especially the units stored since 2018, who will have seen only a couple of years use after their mid life refurbishment.
Hmm...how extensive was the work on those?

Another recent example is London Underground's Asset Inspection Train. This was formed from extensively modified 1967 and 1972 mk1 stock carriages, it sat idle for several years, and was taken away for scrap a few weeks ago without ever being used for it's intended purpose as an infrastructre monitoring train.
Ah, yes. Some time ago a pair of 1960 Stock cars and a 1938 Stock trailer were earmarked for use as a track recording train too, but the project was delayed for ages, the 38 Stock vehicle disposed of. A 73 Stock trailer was used instead.
 

D6975

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The class 23 baby deltics didn't last for very long after their rebuilding, 8 out of 10 only ran for 3 or 4 years I think.
 

bramling

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Hmm...how extensive was the work on those?


Ah, yes. Some time ago a pair of 1960 Stock cars and a 1938 Stock trailer were earmarked for use as a track recording train too, but the project was delayed for ages, the 38 Stock vehicle disposed of. A 73 Stock trailer was used instead.

It was more than just a refresh. A lot of PRM work, replacement toilet, new PIS, LED lighting, mechanical alterations, and a completely redecorated interior.

Not as extensive as what’s been done elsewhere, but more than just a refresh. Rather unfortunately the new interiors were generally regarded as less nice than what went before.
 

Doomotron

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Had the 442 rebuilds been a success, the 458s probably would count, only being rebuilt 5/6 years before they would have been withdrawn.
 

DB

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They were certainly never used for their intended purpose, but I think most of them saw use elsewhere for some time. However, you've reminded me of the generator vehicles rebuilt from Mark 3 sleepers - pretty sure most of those just sat around rotting before disposal.

DRS had them all - some have since been sold but I don't think any have been scrapped so far (many years later!).
 

superjohn

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The LNER HST stock that transferred to EMR had extensive structural work prior to entering service for a very short period. It probably wouldn’t count as a refurbishment but, with the benefit of hindsight, it may well have been better to adapt their existing stock and/or grant it a further derogation.

The Renatus class 321’s refurbished for Greater Anglia don’t appear to have much of a future for the extent of the work done. They are only in service now thanks to the delayed introduction of the class 720 fleet.

However, you've reminded me of the generator vehicles rebuilt from Mark 3 sleepers - pretty sure most of those just sat around rotting before disposal.
Eastern Rail Services have finally found work for at least two of them.
 

DB

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The LNER HST stock that transferred to EMR had extensive structural work prior to entering service for a very short period. It probably wouldn’t count as a refurbishment but, with the benefit of hindsight, it may well have been better to adapt their existing stock and/or grant it a further derogation.

That was the DfT!
 

DB

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Grand Central's 91/mk4/dvt sets are a pretty good recent example....

The sets are going to be used by TfW now though, so not wasted. The locos (90s, not 91s) were hired in from DB, and they are using those which had been refurbished for GC for their own use.
 

Donny_m

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I watched them strip down and work on a crashed Tyne and Wear metro set in Bristol days road shed for about a year 2-3 years ago, before chucking it outside under a tarp and then god knows what’s happened to it (all I know it’s been scrapped or just sat dead somewhere else)
 

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Going back a bit and I realize that this may not strictly fit within the parameters of the OP's query, but a single, freshly refubished Class 303 (303051) never re-entered service in it's original formation; it being written off in 1987 after it collided with the Class 37 it was being hauled by just outside Singer station after the former ran away from Westerton. It and another 303 were fresh out of Glasgow Works post-refurb & were being hauled from there back to Yoker Carriage Sidings when this occured. One of 051's driving trailers ended up in another 303, while the 2 other vehicles were scrapped.

In a similar vein (but going back even further), the rebuilt LMS Turbomotive aka 46202 Princess Anne had only been in service for a few months post-rebuild/conversion before it was wrecked in the Harrow & Wealdstone disaster in October 1952.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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Going back a bit and I realize that this may not strictly fit within the parameters of the OP's query, but a single, freshly refubished Class 303 (303051) never re-entered service in it's original formation; it being written off in 1987 after it collided with the Class 37 it was being hauled by just outside Singer station after the former ran away from Westerton. One of of the driving trailers ended up in another 303, while the 2 other vehicles were scrapped.
On a similar note, 141104 was written off in a collision with a 156 at Huddersfield late in 1989- shortly after being refurbished and renumbered from 141003 at Kilmarnock.
 

Strathclyder

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On a similar note, 141104 was written off in a collision with a 156 at Huddersfield late in 1989- shortly after being refurbished and renumbered from 141003 at Kilmarnock.
This the badger? I assume this was taken (May 1987) before it went north to Kilmarnock for refurb (not a expert on 141s, am afraid lol).


(image from the roger5450 Flickr photostream)
 

norbitonflyer

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Had the 442 rebuilds been a success, the 458s probably would count, only being rebuilt 5/6 years before they would have been withdrawn.
The retractioned 455s as well- the 701s that are to replace them were ordered very shortly after the retractioning programme was complete, and should have been in service by now.
 

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Presumably the 37s that were refurbed for Nighstar come into this?
Also arguably the Class 67s, which were expensively modified to be certified to 125mph but then barely every used at that speed, I think? 67s are arguable as they weren't rebuilt as such, but the original design was refused permission to run above 110mph at first.

The 37/6s were used and some are still being used, obviously not for their converted purpose, as for the 67s, it's a common misconception that they entered service limited to 110mph, they were in fact limited to 90mph
 

DB

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The 37/6s were used and some are still being used, obviously not for their converted purpose, as for the 67s, it's a common misconception that they entered service limited to 110mph, they were in fact limited to 90mph

The 67s have, so far as I know, never been allowed over 110 apart from testing though, due to how hard they are on the track.
 

DelW

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The retractioned 455s as well- the 701s that are to replace them were ordered very shortly after the retractioning programme was complete, and should have been in service by now.
Although the 455s' lives will be shorter than was expected when the retractioning was decided on, the fact that SWR considered it would be cost effective to convert the 442s for use only until 2024, suggests that the 455s' conversion will have covered its cost by the time of their withdrawal. Of course, had the 701s been introduced on schedule the cost recovery period would have been shorter, but possibly still sufficient.

How the costs and benefits have been shared between TOC and ROSCO would be interesting to know, but is probably not in the public domain.
 

Journeyman

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Although the 455s' lives will be shorter than was expected when the retractioning was decided on,
They were never intended to have a particularly long life after retractioning, and another thread discussing this provides strong evidence the work has already successfully paid for itself.
 
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37194 was refurbished externally for DRS several years ago before the mass acquisition of 37/4s took place. The loco was subsequently gutted for the repair programme before the shell was sent to Booths. DRS had a thing for repainting locos they knew damn well would never run again.
 

DB

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37194 was refurbished externally for DRS several years ago before the mass acquisition of 37/4s took place. The loco was subsequently gutted for the repair programme before the shell was sent to Booths.

Similar with 47709 - repainted, then stripped and scrapped at Eastleigh.
 

61653 HTAFC

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This the badger? I assume this was taken (May 1987) before it went north to Kilmarnock for refurb (not a expert on 141s, am afraid lol).


(image from the roger5450 Flickr photostream)
Going by the visible vehicle number, that is the same unit. However it is wrongly tagged with its post-refurb set number in that photo. Oddly the set numbers weren't always displayed on the as-built units, but when in green and cream colours that would have been 141003. Confusing I know!
 

ExRes

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The 67s have, so far as I know, never been allowed over 110 apart from testing though, due to how hard they are on the track.

I don't know the answer because I've been over my 67 experience for a long time now, thankfully, but even if they are 110mph limited surely there must be a 125mph case for the Colas pair or are you including them in 'testing'?
 

DB

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I don't know the answer because I've been over my 67 experience for a long time now, thankfully, but even if they are 110mph limited surely there must be a 125mph case for the Colas pair or are you including them in 'testing'?

So far as I know the testing was only specific type testing with one loco (67023?) at those speeds, and they were never authorised for it in service

The Colas ones work with Mk2 stock which isn't rated for 125mph anyway, so probably no need there.
 

ExRes

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So far as I know the testing was only specific type testing with one loco (67023?) at those speeds, and they were never authorised for it in service

The Colas ones work with Mk2 stock which isn't rated for 125mph anyway, so probably no need there.

Thanks for the info on the Colas ones, I clearly remember 023 sitting unused at Old Oak for months
 
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