TRIVIA: Religious traditions that are also practised by a lot of non-religious people

[AY1975]

I would guess that many people who are not particularly religious (even many people who call themselves atheists, agnostics or humanists) know and respect the fact that we are (or have historically been) a Christian country and as such they don't want to relinquish all religious traditions.

Here are a few examples of such traditions that I can think of that are practised even by a lot of non-religious people:

Having their children baptised and having godparents

Getting married in church (or having a service of blessing after a civil wedding, which I believe the Church of England offers, or used to offer, as a compromise for divorcees who were remarrying and who weren't deemed eligible for a full church wedding. This could also be appropriate for a couple where one partner is religious and the other one isn't and would prefer a civil wedding.)

Having a religious funeral when you die (which I think is the default position for every deceased person, whether they were baptised or not, unless their family requests a different type of funeral, such as a secular funeral, or the person said in their will that that was what they wanted)

Giving things up for Lent (and having pancakes on Shrove Tuesday)

Having fish rather than meat on Fridays

Saying prayers (and/or having a moment of devotion/meditation) at bedtime and/or at mealtimes

Having a daily act of worship in school, which I believe is a legal requirement in state schools in Britain. There has been a lot of controversy over whether non-religious children (and children of different faiths) should be allowed to opt out of daily worship (and even opt out of Religious Education), though.

Celebrating Christmas and Easter (which even many members of religions other than Christianity do). Some people who aren't religious or who belong to religions other than Christianity choose not to celebrate Christmas and Easter, but that's a matter of personal choice.

Quite a lot of people who aren't particularly religious (and even some members of other religions) even go to church at Christmas and/or Easter, whether they used to be church goers or not.

 

[birchesgreen]

I don't know anyone non-religious (which to be honest is most people i know) do most of the things you list.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Having your kids christened if you aren't religious, is something middle-class people do in order to assist getting said kids into a good school.

Fish on a Friday is one that has become a cultural tradition even away from religion, as can be seen by the queues at the chippy on a Friday. However I don't know of anyone who gives things up "for Lent" unless they're quite seriously into the big G-man upstairs.

At least in America, some Christians have a habit of claiming ownership of cultural traditions without any real historical backing... for example the only reason people don't go around killing is because of the biblical commandment forbidding it.

 

[gg1]

In the UK non-religous people used to do alot of those simply because it was the done thing, or to keep older relatives happy but these days I think it's pretty rare in most cases. Weddings are probably the main exception, though often more for the appeal of a traditional white wedding with all it's trappings.

In the case of Christmas and Easter, although the non-religous elements are widely celebrated across the board, very few non Christians celebrate the religious aspect any more.

 

[AY1975]

I don't know of anyone who gives things up "for Lent" unless they're quite seriously into the big G-man upstairs.

I have an old school friend (I went to a church secondary school) who calls herself an Atheist but still gives things up for Lent, probably simply because she thinks it's good discipline.

 

[Calthrop]

Having your kids christened if you aren't religious, is something middle-class people do in order to assist getting said kids into a good school.

With respect -- that's a bit cynical (no doubt it's meant to be !) -- having one's kids christened is a thing which very many non-religious people, of all classes, do: with its being a tradition "from time immemorial" -- and as per @gg1, to keep older relatives happy -- and with the secular aspect of godparents: someone who promises to, in practical terms, look after your offspring if the worst were, untimely, to befall you. Infant baptism is a thing which doesn't sit well with me; but in that I'd seem to be, in Britain, in a minority.

Fish on a Friday is one that has become a cultural tradition even away from religion, as can be seen by the queues at the chippy on a Friday.

Various funny stuff associated with the business of fish on Friday: I gather that though it was initiated many centuries ago by the Catholic Church -- a mild bit of self-denial once a week (with people in Europe anyway, tending to prefer meat to fish); it carried on in Britain -- at times, legally enforced -- after the break with Rome: in order to boost the country's fishing industry. (Not everyone finds a weekly "fish" day, particularly self-denying: I remember reading a remark by C.S. Lewis -- a devout Anglican who, among sundry other things, obeyed the "fish on Friday" rule: "it's no hardship for me -- I like fish". Marvellously bonkers !)


And there is November 5th -- very few people nowadays, consciously celebrate it as commemorating the thwarting of the evil Catholic Gunpowder Plot (I gather that that element in the matter is still quite prominent in the Nov. 5th celebrations in Lewes). The tradition's carrying on, is unsurprising -- fireworks are fun ! I gather that English Catholics sometimes find themselves a bit bothered, re "the 5th" -- as I once saw it set out, they see Guy as "a misguided goodie rather than a thwarted baddie"; but it seems that they usually, one way or another, sort the thing out to their satisfaction.

 

[REVUpminster]

Baptism is free by the Church of England as it is an acceptance into the church family. Marriage and death you have to pay for. The whole idea of Baptism and godparents (clues in the name) is lost on most parents.
Baptism of adults or an older child who attends church is straight forward although some vicars may hold classes.
Baptism of a baby or child is complicated by the fact that they are too young to agree or even know what is happening; hence the godparents. Godparents are responsible for spiritual (not financial) welfare of the child. They even make vows to that fact at the baptism. The child/adult at anytime from 12 upwards can make their own minds up and have the Baptism confirmed in a service presided over by a Bishop. When this happens the Godparents responsibilities are discharged.
Baptism replaced the Jewish circumcision on the 8th day, still remembered to this day in most churches by an eight sided font. Jewish parents are responsible for their children until the child's bar mitzvah (boy aged 13) batmitzvah (girl aged 12).

I'd better say REV are my initials just as ST was Simon Templar and he was not a saint.

 

[xotGD]

Saying 'Bless you' after someone has sneezed.

 

[REVUpminster]

The cockney saying Cor Blimey! means God blind me.

Halloween is a corruption of All Hallows Eve before All Hallows Day when Catholics especially would venerate the saints.

 

[Calthrop]

Baptism is free by the Church of England as it is an acceptance into the church family. Marriage and death you have to pay for. The whole idea of Baptism and godparents (clues in the name) is lost on most parents.
Baptism of adults or an older child who attends church is straight forward although some vicars may hold classes.
Baptism of a baby or child is complicated by the fact that they are too young to agree or even know what is happening; hence the godparents. Godparents are responsible for spiritual (not financial) welfare of the child. They even make vows to that fact at the baptism. The child/adult at anytime from 12 upwards can make their own minds up and have the Baptism confirmed in a service presided over by a Bishop. When this happens the Godparents responsibilities are discharged.

(My bolding) By my understanding -- the above-bolded is no doubt the official church "line"; but in fact, non-religious folks tend to see the "godparents" thing as about having someone who will take over upbringing and caring for kids, should the actual parents die or meet with other extreme misfortune (it is self-evidently a good idea to have someone who is ready to do that -- including, in an entirely secular context) -- plus, a certain amount of interacting with, and likely "spoiling", god-kids -- understandable and basically healthy, one figures -- the "spiritual welfare" aspect though, being glossed over by the non-religious.

Halloween is a corruption of All Hallows Eve before All Hallows Day when Catholics especially would venerate the saints.

And, if I have it rightly -- per tradition, on the eve of All Hallows (All Saints') Day, the non-saintly dead get the chance for briefly revisiting Earth -- this involving all kinds of potential mischief -- or worse stuff: a time for largely-enjoyable spooky "thrills and spills", and ideal for a brief period of licensed mischievous goings-on for kids.

 

[chorleyjeff]

.

Fish on a Friday is one that has become a cultural tradition even away from religion, as can be seen by the queues at the chippy on a Friday. However I don't know of anyone who gives things up "for Lent" unless they're quite seriously into the big G-man upstairs.

At least in America, some Christians have a habit of claiming ownership of cultural traditions without any real historical backing... for example the only reason people don't go around killing is because of the biblical commandment forbidding it.

"Fish on a Friday is one that has become a cultural tradition even away from religion, as can be seen by the queues at the chippy on a Friday."

Not sure about that. Chippy tea on Friday is an easy tea before Friday night out. Saves all that cooking and washing up.

"for example the only reason people don't go around killing is because of the biblical commandment forbidding it."

And the electric chair or ending up in prison for a long long time might also be a good reason.

 

[Calthrop]

"for example the only reason people don't go around killing is because of the biblical commandment forbidding it."

And the electric chair or ending up in prison for a long long time might also be a good reason.

Or maybe, just "the Golden Rule" -- taking on board of which, doesn't necessarily require religious teaching -- treat other people, as you'd wish them to treat you; don't do to them, what you would not wish them to do to you.

 

[REVUpminster]

(My bolding) By my understanding -- the above-bolded is no doubt the official church "line"; but in fact, non-religious folks tend to see the "godparents" thing as about having someone who will take over upbringing and caring for kids, should the actual parents die or meet with other extreme misfortune (it is self-evidently a good idea to have someone who is ready to do that -- including, in an entirely secular context) -- plus, a certain amount of interacting with, and likely "spoiling", god-kids -- understandable and basically healthy, one figures -- the "spiritual welfare" aspect though, being glossed over by the non-religious.



And, if I have it rightly -- per tradition, on the eve of All Hallows (All Saints') Day, the non-saintly dead get the chance for briefly revisiting Earth -- this involving all kinds of potential mischief -- or worse stuff: a time for largely-enjoyable spooky "thrills and spills", and ideal for a brief period of licensed mischievous goings-on for kids.

As I said Godparent, the clue is in the name. Some vicars, my vicar, will not offer baptism unless the god parents are prepared to make the vows and instead offers a thanksgiving for the baby/child not held at the font.

The big difference between Catholic and Protestant churches is there is no purgatory or holding area (there's nothing in the bible) where the dead can be prayed for or where spirits can reside hence spiritualism is an anathema to the protestant (pro-test-ant) churches.

The Church of England is the reformed catholic (catholic meaning universal) church tracing it's history to 597ad although Christians had been in Britain for nearly 400 years before.

 

[172007]

I think the irony to the OP's question "we are (or have historically been) a Christian country and as such they don't want to relinquish all religious traditions." Is that a great many of the christian dates in the calender are in fact dates recycled from former religions. We don't know when Jesus was born yet we celebrate is effectively on the Winter solstice. They say god works in mysterious ways.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

There are good religious and other reasons for having a Day of Rest. Perhaps in a multi-faith society Saturday could be a rest day for the Jews and Friday for the Muslims, and for others of any faith or none. Should be possible to do all necessary work in four days.

 

[Calthrop]

As I said Godparent, the clue is in the name. Some vicars, my vicar, will not offer baptism unless the god parents are prepared to make the vows and instead offers a thanksgiving for the baby/child not held at the font.

Not wanting to be unpleasantly confrontational -- just, genuinely interested -- I wonder a bit, why the "godparent" thing in the first place? Presumably, Christian parents will do their best to, from the first, teach the Christian faith to their offspring -- why such a big emphasis on the "back-up" re same?

The Church of England is the reformed catholic (catholic meaning universal) church tracing it's history to 597ad although Christians had been in Britain for nearly 400 years before.

597ad -- is that the Synod of Whitby? -- I'd imagined C of E and identity in that name, kicking off in mid-16th century: Henry VIII and his marital / dynastic hassles, and conflicts with the Papacy re same; before that, just the Roman Catholic Church throughout western Europe, including the British Isles -- or is that too simplistic?

If Henry hadn't had the problems he had -- or if Arthur his elder brother, first husband of Katherine of Aragon, had lived -- I envisage nonetheless,
"alternative history" supplying many other potential scenarios for Great Britain's, at that time in history, turning Protestant. I'm not Anglican, or indeed Christian, from birth: have to wonder -- in view of the historical shenanigans -- why the especial veneration for the C of E, as is?

There are good religious and other reasons for having a Day of Rest. Perhaps in a multi-faith society Saturday could be a rest day for the Jews and Friday for the Muslims, and for others of any faith or none. Should be possible to do all necessary work in four days.

A bit facetiously -- I gather that that was indeed the case in the British Mandate which governed what was then Palestine, between the World Wars. Everyone had Fri. / Sat. / Sun. off; and somehow, things still got done. The envy of all neighbouring states !

 

[REVUpminster]

Not wanting to be unpleasantly confrontational -- just, genuinely interested -- I wonder a bit, why the "godparent" thing in the first place? Presumably, Christian parents will do their best to, from the first, teach the Christian faith to their offspring -- why such a big emphasis on the "back-up" re same?



597ad -- is that the Synod of Whitby? -- I'd imagined C of E and identity in that name, kicking off in mid-16th century: Henry VIII and his marital / dynastic hassles, and conflicts with the Papacy re same; before that, just the Roman Catholic Church throughout western Europe, including the British Isles -- or is that too simplistic?

If Henry hadn't had the problems he had -- or if Arthur his elder brother, first husband of Katherine of Aragon, had lived -- I envisage nonetheless,
"alternative history" supplying many other potential scenarios for Great Britain's, at that time in history, turning Protestant. I'm not Anglican, or indeed Christian, from birth: have to wonder -- in view of the historical shenanigans -- why the especial veneration for the C of E, as is?



A bit facetiously -- I gather that that was indeed the case in the British Mandate which governed what was then Palestine, between the World Wars. Everyone had Fri. / Sat. / Sun. off; and somehow, things still got done. The envy of all neighbouring states !

Godparents would take on the spiritual responsibility if any thing happened to the parents but it has in modern secular times become financial. Parents faith falters as does finance. Do we expect Godparents to cover both. Might be difficult if they are poor to cover financial matters.

597ad is when the Pope sent Augustine to convert the King of Kent; not as difficult as you might think as his wife was a Christian with her own priests. When Augustine went up to London he was given short shrift by the Essex boys and high tailed it back to Canterbury which became the centre for Christianity in southern England. The CofE never came under the full authority of the Pope until 1066. it was roman catholic until the reformation spread through Europe especially with the German and English Bible new translations and Henry 8 took advantage of the situation to make himself head of the church. It was Anne Boleyn, Thomas Cromwell and Henry's son Edward (he was taught by Archbishop Cranmer) who championed Protestantism; which was a protest against non biblical practices of the the Roman catholic church such as selling indulgences, purgatory, iconology the bible only in Latin that priests could interpret as it suited them.

 

[Calthrop]

Godparents would take on the spiritual responsibility if any thing happened to the parents but it has in modern secular times become financial. Parents faith falters as does finance. Do we expect Godparents to cover both. Might be difficult if they are poor to cover financial matters.

Could I say -- not wishing to offend -- that this seems a bit insulting to all concerned? Fallen humanity being as it is -- even in the most pious of times, most people are less religious than they ideally ought to be. So the parents choose, as godparents, the most devoutly-religious people with whom they're acquainted -- maybe the parents are more devout than anyone else whom they happen to know? -- and even if not; who's to know that the chosen godparents might not, in time, backslide from their high Christian standards? And -- secular-wise -- I feel that you over-stress / over-simplify the "financial" thing. I read the secular (for most people, if we're to be honest, more important and immediate than "pie in the sky" stuff) part of godparent-hood to be about: should the worst happen -- death, or short-thereof but disastrous -- to the biological parents: godparents (even if they're as poor as church mice, and the biological parents were affluent) stepping in to try to rescue the kids: giving something better than ultimate-worst, re kids being turned out on the roads to beg. Apologies, if I'm here misunderstanding / misinterpreting you.

 

[REVUpminster]

Could I say -- not wishing to offend -- that this seems a bit insulting to all concerned? Fallen humanity being as it is -- even in the most pious of times, most people are less religious than they ideally ought to be. So the parents choose, as godparents, the most devoutly-religious people with whom they're acquainted -- maybe the parents are more devout than anyone else whom they happen to know? -- and even if not; who's to know that the chosen godparents might not, in time, backslide from their high Christian standards? And -- secular-wise -- I feel that you over-stress / over-simplify the "financial" thing. I read the secular (for most people, if we're to be honest, more important and immediate than "pie in the sky" stuff) part of godparent-hood to be about: should the worst happen -- death, or short-thereof but disastrous -- to the biological parents: godparents (even if they're as poor as church mice, and the biological parents were affluent) stepping in to try to rescue the kids: giving something better than ultimate-worst, re kids being turned out on the roads to beg. Apologies, if I'm here misunderstanding / misinterpreting you.

It doesn't offend as much as when the children baptised and their parents and godparents are never seen in church again and the guests treat it as a 18-30 party and have to sit through a 60 minute service they have no interest except for the 10 minute Baptism. I have sat through about 5/6 and one thanksgiving since the last lockdown ended. As a previous poster said many are done to get into a church school.
Adult baptism is different as their is a commitment on the part of the person being baptised. It might be cynical but it's what happens.

 

[Calthrop]

It doesn't offend as much as when the children baptised and their parents and godparents are never seen in church again and the guests treat it as a 18-30 party and have to sit through a 60 minute service they have no interest except for the 10 minute Baptism. I have sat through about 5/6 and one thanksgiving since the last lockdown ended. As a previous poster said many are done to get into a church school.
Adult baptism is different as their is a commitment on the part of the person being baptised. It might be cynical but it's what happens.

I have the feeling that -- coming from different directions -- we are essentially on the same page.

Almost seventy years ago: although my parents refrained from having me christened (for which I am grateful); nonetheless, I started my schooling (from "infants", aged five) at a Church of England school. Don't know how that was accomplished; but thus it was.

 

[Farang]

Interesting thread. As someone who isn't at all religious, the religious tradition I find myself upholding most often is blasphemy. I don't believe there is a place called hell, yet in moments of stress I find myself appending it to an anglo-saxonism as though it in some way intensifies it.

 

[birchesgreen]

Almost seventy years ago: although my parents refrained from having me christened (for which I am grateful); nonetheless, I started my schooling (from "infants", aged five) at a Church of England school. Don't know how that was accomplished; but thus it was.

I also i went to a CofE school though have never been christened (although am a christian) so they must have had looser requirements in the past.

 

[Calthrop]

I also i went to a CofE school though have never been christened (although am a christian) so they must have had looser requirements in the past.

And with me, it was in a small country town -- that also maybe contributing to things being more relaxed. (In that school, my first encounter -- aged 5 -- with religious devotions of any kind: initially, struck me as completely barmy.)

 

[AM9]

Interesting thread. As someone who isn't at all religious, the religious tradition I find myself upholding most often is blasphemy. I don't believe there is a place called hell, yet in moments of stress I find myself appending it to an anglo-saxonism as though it in some way intensifies it.

As someone who was christened as a baby (at the insistence of a paternal grandmother) I reject that I am a 'christian' of any kind. Despite being sent to church and sunday school for a while, and having religious assembly and education mandated (by law) throughout my primary and part of my high school years, I have never actively taken part in any religious belief. If forced to accept a label for the convenience of politicians and others who claim to speak for everbody, I would accept Humanist, - but that option is rarely offered.
Given that well under half of the population make any attempt to regularly voluntarily attend religious places of worship or read the bible at least once per week, it seems that I am not in a minority. I also have never regarded the UK or England as a christain nation (once I understood what that meant) and I find the inference by the C of E that we are as a sign of desperation. The C of E commisioned this study in 2017. I suspect that the result was not as they expected, but the figures show just how things have changed in my lifetime. See here. (results indicate that just 6% of British adults are practicing christians).
As far as Christmas and other religious holidays are concerned, one can't ignore the fact that they are public holidays, and I would suggest that if they weren't public, even fewer would use part of their annual holiday entitlement to attend religious events. I am indifferent to the winter holiday and celebrations having a name that to some means a festival for the devout christian, non-christains can do just as much good for others without reference to a religious belief. As a humanist once said to me, being religious doesn't make a person good, nor does not being religious make them bad, - the two qualities are not relevant to each other in any way.

 

[SteveM70]

Getting married in church

Or as my late father in law, who was a vicar, used to say “wanting a nice background for their wedding photos”

 

[Essan]

Celebrating Christmas and Easter (which even many members of religions other than Christianity do). Some people who aren't religious or who belong to religions other than Christianity choose not to celebrate Christmas and Easter, but that's a matter of personal choice.

Christmas and Easter both go back thousands of years before christianity and have little to do with religion - other than the aspects that have been imposed on them in more recent times.

Personally, Easter is a non event for me, but Christmas - being the modern generic name for the midwinter/solstice/new year festival/celebration is something I do observe: a time to eat, drink and be merry.

 

[REVUpminster]

Baptism does not make a child or baby a Christian. It gives acceptance into the Christian family and the child as they grow up choose for themselves by confirmation. Humanism is a belief as is atheism. Believers can only blaspheme against their own beliefs.

 

[Ediswan]

Or as my late father in law, who was a vicar, used to say “wanting a nice background for their wedding photos”

It can work the other way. In Enfield, the public gardens adjacent to the Register Office are excellent for wedding photos, arguably better than any of the nearby churches.

In the 1970s, there was a plan to consolidate all council services into the newly expanded Civic Centre (aka Ivory Tower), which is not especially photogenic. Once the implications of relocating the Register Office sank in, there were howls of protest. Best part of 50 years later, the Register Office remains in its original location.

 

[REVUpminster]

Christmas and Easter both go back thousands of years before christianity and have little to do with religion - other than the aspects that have been imposed on them in more recent times.

Personally, Easter is a non event for me, but Christmas - being the modern generic name for the midwinter/solstice/new year festival/celebration is something I do observe: a time to eat, drink and be merry.

Most Christians know Christ was not born in December but probably in March, some date it to September. Easter is far more important not because of Good Friday but Easter Sunday and the resurrection or it would have been just another man dying on the cross.

Jesus, a Jew, is known as The Lamb, Aries is the first sign of the Zodiac, March/April is lambing season, Passover is the most important date in the Jewish calendar. The early calendar changed the year on the 25 March. Britain changed it to Jan 1 in 1752. The early church probably took December from followers of Mithras who was born in December.. Early churches were built near pre existing standing stones or other symbols.

 

[Busaholic]

Like Richard Dawkins, I have a penchant for ecclesiastical music without being a believer: unlike him, I'd describe myself as an agnostic. Being in a church choir obviously had more of an influence than I'd care to admit!