Trivia: Right hand running

[bluegoblin7]

Foregate Street is actually another example of two parallel single lines.

Awww, RailUK is meant to be the home of pedants. "Right hand running" isn't explicitly meaning non-single lines, so very much fits the face value definition.

 

[apinnard]

Isn't much of the Brighton mainline and some of the GEML signalled for bi-directional working?

The GEML north of Shenfield is mostly bi-di. I think its SIMBIDS though, so slower speeds and no AWS wrong line. swills may be able to confirm.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

Heritage, rather than Network, but Alton (MHR) has RH running through the Meon Loop. It is signalled bi-directionally, but trains normally pass using RH running.
This dates from an early conversation between management and Major Olver about installing signalling at Alton. Major Olver suggested RH running, as easier for token exchange between the bobby and a down train.
Pat

 

[SHD]

HS1 is left-handed, as are French LGVs and most French Classic lines with the exception of those in Alsace-Lorraine (the railways there were built under German rule originally and Germany is right-hand running).

and as all French LGVs, it is designed for full bidirectional operation

 

[Belperpete]

I don't know what the reason is on the Ffestiniog, but I think I've seen published photos from many decades ago showing right-hand running. I wonder whether it dates right back to the 1830s and if at that time there wasn't yet an established national convention about which track trains used. That's just speculation, though.

Right-hand running at loops like Tan-y-Bwlch gave a smoother path for the gravity slate trains.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

and as all French LGVs, it is designed for full bidirectional operation

And occasionally used. Installed for Eurostar version 1.0, Ashford to Dollands Moor is also fully bi-directional, but probably hardly ever used? The bi-di ends at the current junction with the tunnel, although never-used signal heads with associated black bags, and a never-built crossover between Folkestones West and Central, show that it was originally expected to extend to the latter.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Sandbach-Cheadle Hulme is bi-di, and so is much of the upgraded part of the Trent Valley line (Rugby-Lichfield fast lines).
The new low-cost modular schemes also have limited bi-di built in (eg Shrewsbury-Crewe and Connah's Quay-Llysfaen), but is hardly used.
All ERTMS lines should also have this capability, much as HS1 and HS2.

 

[najaB]

Sandbach-Cheadle Hulme is bi-di, and so is much of the upgraded part of the Trent Valley line (Rugby-Lichfield fast lines).

How often is it used for timetable services (the reverse capability, that is)?

 

[randyrippley]

......….The loop at Axminster was right-handed when it was first introduced, don't know if it still is.

I believe ALL the loops on Salisbury-Exeter were bi-di on the up line, single direction on the down line when the line got singled.
Yeovil Junction is now an exception - both platforms should be bi-di
Net result was most trains in both directions used the up line

 

[py_megapixel]

How often is it used for timetable services (the reverse capability, that is)?

Sometimes the hourly Southport to Alderley Edge services to cross over before ALD and terminate in the Manchester-bound platform. All passengers alight, then it leaves, still running on the right, and crosses over again the other side of the station, and runs a short distance on the "correct" side to stable in the siding, where it waits for about 45 minutes before crossing over for a third time to re-enter service towards Manchester again.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

How often is it used for timetable services (the reverse capability, that is)?

I used it the other week, ran on the Up Trent Valley Fast (UTVF) all the way to Nuneaton from High Oaks Junction due to a loco having a nice sit down on the Down Trent Valley (DTV).

 

[181]

I believe ALL the loops on Salisbury-Exeter were bi-di on the up line, single direction on the down line when the line got singled.
Yeovil Junction is now an exception - both platforms should be bi-di
Net result was most trains in both directions used the up line

Was that ever done on the double track between Templecombe and Yeovil? It's vaguely in my mind that I may have travelled on the right-hand track there many years ago (early 1980s?), but not to the extent of being a solid memory, so it might be completely wrong.

You might expect that at Honiton the default line would have been (or still be) the down, as the station building is on that side.

 

[Grecian 1998]

Was that ever done on the double track between Templecombe and Yeovil? It's vaguely in my mind that I may have travelled on the right-hand track there many years ago (early 1980s?), but not to the extent of being a solid memory, so it might be completely wrong.

You might expect that at Honiton the default line would have been (or still be) the down, as the station building is on that side.

Correct - the down line at Honiton has always been the default routing. The other loops at Chard Junction, Gillingham and Tisbury are all set with the up line being the default line - although Tisbury wasn't created until 1986. At Honiton and Gillingham the default line is the one next to the station building. Chard Junction and Tisbury seem to be just because the up line is the one which was retained when the line was singled in 1967.

You're also correct that the up line between Yeovil Junction and Templecombe is set for bi-directional running, although it's rarely used these days as the hourly timetable obviously renders it impractical to use. I don't think the down line is set up for bi-directional running. Again this is due to the main station buildings being on the up side, except Templecombe which was closed between 1967 and 1983. Until 2012 passengers had to use a footbridge to reach the up platform. In order to make the station PRM compliant, the down platform was extended outwards and the up platform closed - although I understand it can be removed if the line is ever re-doubled.

Bit OT really. Back OT Weston-Super-Mare often features what appears to be RH running through the loop, as both lines are bi-directional. I think the main up platform is longer so is generally be used by the IETs to and from Paddington, with local services using the down platform in either direction. Not consistent RH running but stay for an hour during the day and you're likely to see it.

 

[GusB]

I've noticed a similar situation at Nairn. If no trains are scheduled to pass, both east and westbound trains use platform 1, but when two trains pass, Inverness-bound trains use P1 and those for Aberdeen use P2.

I note that access to sidings was mentioned earlier in the thread - would this be the reason? (I thought the sidings there were gone - shows how observant I've been!)

 

[InOban]

All inbound trains from the WHL cross over to the right hand line before Westerton and run that way for some distance before the junction for the Maryhill route.

 

[randyrippley]

Was that ever done on the double track between Templecombe and Yeovil? It's vaguely in my mind that I may have travelled on the right-hand track there many years ago (early 1980s?), but not to the extent of being a solid memory, so it might be completely wrong.

You might expect that at Honiton the default line would have been (or still be) the down, as the station building is on that side.

Definitely between Templecombe and Yeovil, also at Gillingham.

 

[hexagon789]

and as all French LGVs, it is designed for full bidirectional operation

Perhaps I should have said "normally", you could say similar about many French or even GB classic lines which have full bi-di, but normal running is left-handed.

 

[Dave W]

No mention of the short stretch at Penryn yet? It's very short but trains are booked to pass each other on the right there.

Or have I misunderstood the criteria?

 

[Tim M]

I don't know what the reason is on the Ffestiniog, but I think I've seen published photos from many decades ago showing right-hand running. I wonder whether it dates right back to the 1830s and if at that time there wasn't yet an established national convention about which track trains used. That's just speculation, though.

First, let’s get over the convention issue, the FR (being the oldest independent railway in the world) follows its own conventions, and where required in terms of safety follows Government (e.g. today the ORR) guidelines. Looking at individual stations:

Minffordd - essentially the up line was for passenger services and the down for mineral (gravity) trains destined for the yard. This existed until about the 1920’s when passenger trains crossed here and there was no logical reason for changing to LH running
Rhiw Goch - can work LH or RH, but for convenience is generally LH so up trains have a straight run through against the grade, but changes to RH for gravity trains to save having to slow down to negotiate the loop.
Tan-y-Bwlch - again historical based on the shunting of goods waggons destined for the goods shed before vacuum brakes were fitted in Victorian times, etc. etc.
Tanygrisiau - was for a while LH running, but now RH as much easier due to the curve for the guard to see the driver.

All very logical.

 

[notlob.divad]

If we are accepting light rail and trams rather than just heavy rail, - Just before Middlewood tram stop in Sheffield. Each track runs on the road so is Left hand running, however just before Middlewood the Northbound track crosses over the Southbound track to get off the road. The south bound track remains in the traffic lane. Therefore it has Right hand running for approximately 80 metres, before the track converge at the terminal platform. I assume this is so that the inbound tram gets out of the traffic lane and doesn't cause congestion, if there is a tram still in the single track terminal preparing to depart. Search 53°24'54.9"N 1°30'33.7"W on google maps for a view.

 

[edwin_m]

The Nottingham tram has right hand running between just north of the Forest stop and the depot, but the two tracks are on different streets.

 

[RichardGore]

All ERTMS lines should also have this capability, much as HS1 and HS2.

That’s not necessarily true. ETCS isn’t inherently bidirectional even in L2, and given the UK rail industry’s weird aversion to BiDi I wouldn’t count on it being available everywhere.

Worth remembering that the proprietary train control system (SelTrac I believe) used for the Jubilee line supports BiDi “out of the box” and we paid extra in order to have it removed.

 

[Kite159]

You're also correct that the up line between Yeovil Junction and Templecombe is set for bi-directional running, although it's rarely used these days as the hourly timetable obviously renders it impractical to use. I don't think the down line is set up for bi-directional running. Again this is due to the main station buildings being on the up side, except Templecombe which was closed between 1967 and 1983. Until 2012 passengers had to use a footbridge to reach the up platform. In order to make the station PRM compliant, the down platform was extended outwards and the up platform closed - although I understand it can be removed if the line is ever re-doubled.

I believe one service which does make use of the bi-directional running between Templecombe & Yeovil is the 06:35 Waterloo - Weymouth on Saturdays. As a result the 0824 Exeter St Davids to London Waterloo has to run via platform 2 at Yeovil Junction

 

[Taunton]

You're also correct that the up line between Yeovil Junction and Templecombe is set for bi-directional running, although it's rarely used these days as the hourly timetable obviously renders it impractical to use. I don't think the down line is set up for bi-directional running. Again this is due to the main station buildings being on the up side, except Templecombe which was closed between 1967 and 1983.

I think it is actually because when the line was singled in 1967, right through to Yeovil Junction, with on this stretch the Up line remaining and resignalled as a single line, almost immediately there were delays and it was realised they had overdone it. As the former down line was still in place (unusual for the WR in the 1960s, but there you go) it was reinstated as the principal Down line, but the two-way single track arrangement was left in place on the Up line.

 

[scotraildriver]

Yeah, it's just Taynuilt on the Oban branch.

That suggests that there are several, but there are only two passing loops! And as you say, Taynuilt is RH, Dalmally is LH.

As mentioned the ones on the West Highland and Far North that are right handed are to allow direct access to the sidings without the need to clamp and scotch the points. The points on RETB lines are sprung so they always face the same way, so stations with sidings on the right have right hand loops and you can go straight to the yard, via the ground frame.

 

[QueensCurve]

Excluding multi track lines paired by use (which can appear to be right hand running), how many examples of right hand running are there on the UK mainline network,and which is the longest?

I believe the Newcastle and Carlisle was originally right hand running but it was later converted to LH possibly when it was bought out by the North Eastern Railway.

I wonder if the Eurostar platforms at Ashford are RH running?

Why would they be?

 

[OxtedL]

Excluding multi track lines paired by use (which can appear to be right hand running), how many examples of right hand running are there on the UK mainline network,and which is the longest?

This old thread is also worth a look.

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/locations-where-rail-traffic-moves-on-the-right.120385/

 

[Tomnick]

I think it is actually because when the line was singled in 1967, right through to Yeovil Junction, with on this stretch the Up line remaining and resignalled as a single line, almost immediately there were delays and it was realised they had overdone it. As the former down line was still in place (unusual for the WR in the 1960s, but there you go) it was reinstated as the principal Down line, but the two-way single track arrangement was left in place on the Up line.

I’m not entirely sure of the history of the line, but I understand that it was only Sherborne to Yeovil that was (for a short period) singled before the Down line was reinstated over that section? I’m not sure what the arrangements were in the meantime, but I’d always understood that the justification for the bi-directional signalling on the Up line was to allow at least Templecombe box to switch out. Happy to be put right though, of course!

 

[47271]

Just for clarity on the Highland Main Line.

For example, at Dunkeld the default is for all trains to use the southbound main line by the station building unless they're crossing. The main line is welded rail in good condition. Only a northbound train can enter the loop and then very slowly due to approach control and the ancient jointed track.

It isn't really right hand running because two trains would never pass each other on the right.

I know how it works because I reckon that I spend around 20 minutes a month in total waiting for a cross at Dunkeld. I've had plenty of time to study it.

 

[colchesterken]

On the French thing, I thought that it was odd going to the South of France by train all TGV and the lines to Beziers all run on the left
Do all trains in France run on left. Any one know why?