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Trivia: shortest time between passing two stations

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TheDavibob

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Cheekily, does the passing service have to pass platforms?

E.g. Harrow and Wealdstone to Wembley on the WCML can be done (non-stop at either end) in 2 minutes (and probably a lot less - just a casual check of RTT suggests a run doing it in 1.5 minutes, though rounding either end could add any seconds to that). Given there are three intermediate Watford DC stations on this stretch the gap between at least one consecutive pair must be beneath 30s.

More explicitly, naive measuring of South Kenton to Wembley North suggests ~900m, which is 20s at 100mph. Of course, the WCML is probably slowing down by this point.

Took the time to check, speed limit with tilt is 125mph through this section.

North Wembley to South Kenton is 46 chains, so 16.6s.
Edit: Wembley Central to North Wembley is 60 chains.

Of course using Watford DC stations feels a little against the spirit of it all.
 
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Mcr Warrior

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Are there any stations where the gap between them is shorter than the longest freight train passing between them? In which case, the time could be argued to be zero
Possibly, Deansgate -> Manchester Oxford Road at about a quarter of a mile comes to mind, but the OP was talking about passenger services.
 

BayPaul

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Possibly, Deansgate -> Manchester Oxford Road at about a quarter of a mile comes to mind, but the OP was talking about passenger services.
Does the Caledonian Sleeper ever get diverted that way? If so, it is only about 50m shorter than the distance between the two platforms - even at 20mph that would only take about 6 seconds from the time the rear end left Oxford Road to the loco pulling into Deansgate or vice versa.
 

Domh245

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Harringay/Hornsey must be in with a shout? LNER services are timetabled to pass them 30 seconds apart, and can do it in 15 seconds (eg, this) at least in terms of train reporting (almost certainly longer 'in the real world')

At 52 chains apart, the theoretical best time would be 24 seconds heading towards London, but would be unachievable without breaking the 90mph PSR south of Harringay. NB trains would be slightly slower as it's 90mph until just north of Harringay but then increases to 95.
 

Mcr Warrior

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It’s done:
- Edinburgh to kings cross Via the normal east coast route. I can’t remember if it’s been via the Durham coast, the York avoiding line, the joint lines via Lincoln, or via Cambridge or the Hertford loop
- Edinburgh to Euston via Newcastle, York, Peterborough, and then the line from Finsbury Park to Wembley, where it reversed to get to Euston
- via Birmingham International, Bescot instead of the Trent valley
- via the Northampton loop
- via Manchester Piccadilly and the chat moss line
- many routes south of Glasgow central and also between Glasgow and edinburgh
- Perth to Kirkcaldy (for the Inverness portion)
- using Glasgow queen street high level for one weekend
- Inverness to Aberdeen

Quite A lot for such a small operation. I am sure there will be more!
Does the Caledonian Sleeper ever get diverted that way? If so, it is only about 50m shorter than the distance between the two platforms - even at 20mph that would only take about 6 seconds from the time the rear end left Oxford Road to the loco pulling into Deansgate or vice versa.
Alistairlees responded on this on a different thread recently. (Click on quote for the full detail). Lots of different diversionary routes used by the Caledonian Sleeper from time-to-time, and yes, via Manchester Piccadilly (presumably having passed through Deansgate and Manchester Oxford Road, quite possibly at the same time!) is apparently one of them.
 

vlad

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A Piccadilly Line train running non-stop through Turnham Green and Stamford Brook doesn't take long to cover the distance.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Just 29 chains between Turnham Green and Stamford Brook. What sort of maximum line speed might non-stop Piccadilly line trains be doing on that stretch of LU line?
 

Ianno87

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Possibly, Deansgate -> Manchester Oxford Road at about a quarter of a mile comes to mind, but the OP was talking about passenger services.

Would a 400 metre Eurostar have been able to be passing Wandsworth Rd and Clapham High Street simultaneously?
 

Mcr Warrior

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Has a lengthy train such as a Eurostar or Caledonian Sleeper actually passed through two stations until the end carriage of the said train has gone by the second of the (nearby) stations?
 

causton

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Has a lengthy train such as a Eurostar or Caledonian Sleeper actually passed through two stations until the end carriage of the said train has gone by the second of the (nearby) stations?

I would think of it from the perspective of a person on the train looking sideways out of the window directly at the platform (no cheating looking round curves etc!), so they would see the end point of one platform then see the start point of the next, from a fixed point on the train (so in reality could be the front of the train)
 

Mcr Warrior

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"Passing" two stations implies travelling beyond the far end of the platform(s) (this in the same direction of travel) at each station, but otherwise yes.
 

Bevan Price

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The best I can find after a quick search through my notes are:
Headstone Lane/Hatch End - just over 21 seconds with a Pendolino at around 120 mph.
Huyton/Roby 21-22 seconds at around 90 mph

Both times refer passing station buildings or platform shelters. If you "cheat" by timing "end of first platform" to "start of second platform", it might cut 1-2 seconds off the times. Also, on the WCML, you are on the fast lines, but some stations only have platforms on the slow (or DC) lines.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Both times refer passing station buildings or platform shelters. If you "cheat" by timing "end of first platform" to "start of second platform", it might cut 1-2 seconds off the times. Also, on the WCML, you are on the fast lines, but some stations only have platforms on the slow (or DC) lines.
Definitely cheating IMHO. Just as well that this is a Trivia thread, so hopefully just a bit of fun. ;)

Likely winner is some pair of stations maybe a quarter of a mile (or less) apart on a line where trains can run approaching maximum 120-125 mph line speed.

That should be do-able in as little as 7.5 seconds (!)
 

Ashley Hill

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An Exmouth stopper allows one minute between Exton and Lympstone Commando. A fast one running non-stop between Topsham and Lympstone Village will pass between them far quicker.
 

Mcr Warrior

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A fast one running non-stop between Topsham and Lympstone Village will pass between them far quicker.
Indeed it will. Slightly over half a mile between those two stations, i.e. Exton and Lympstone Commando, so at 60 mph, it would take just over 30 secs. What's the actual max line speed on that stretch of the Avocet line?
 

Eloise

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Timetable wise you don't plan to less that ½ minute sectional running times. And even then you avoid 30 second SRTs, some do exist. I'll bow to The Planner but think there is a ½ P/P (pass to pass) somewhere at the top of Camden Bank on the Down? Possibly Harpenden - Harpenden Junction too. Can't think of any between two mandatory timing points.

I think some stations on the North London Line may get the loco of a freight and tail lamp is still in previous station. I want to say Brondesbury but could be wrong.
 

Ianno87

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Timetable wise you don't plan to less that ½ minute sectional running times. And even then you avoid 30 second SRTs, some do exist. I'll bow to The Planner but think there is a ½ P/P (pass to pass) somewhere at the top of Camden Bank on the Down? Possibly Harpenden - Harpenden Junction too. Can't think of any between two mandatory timing points.

I think some stations on the North London Line may get the loco of a freight and tail lamp is still in previous station. I want to say Brondesbury but could be wrong.

Camden-Camden South is 1/2 minute Pass-Pass.

However, for stations most trains aren't timed to. pass minor ones.

I recall Clapham High Street-Wandsworth Rd is 1 minute Start to Stop.
 

CW2

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As Eloise says, it is rare to actually time(table) trains at successive locations close by. The Camden example quoted is one where there are two distinct junctions in close proximity, in a dense area where freight, fast passenger, and slow passenger services all meet.
When producing the Sectional Running Times (SRTs) the computer will produce point-to-point times down to the second, and some element of common sense and judgment is then overlaid to produce the SRTs used by the Timetable Planners. For example, you need to balance out rounding down and rounding up to the nearest half minute over a sensible distance, rather than simply applying mathematics to it.
Returning to the original thread, the most spectacular examples are when you have high speed services passing at speed through densely populated residential areas (i.e.those with frequent commuter stations). I'd discount those stations where the fast trains merely pass by on a middle (non-platform) road. So most of Euston - Watford would be out, but Kings Cross to Potters Bar and Paddington to Didcot might throw up some good contenders. New Barnet to Oakleigh Park maybe?
 

Eloise

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Tamworth and Wilnecote are surprisingly close at line speed non-stop. Wallasey Village - Wallasey Grove Road have a start to stop SRT of 1 min but nothing non-stop and not very speedy either. Must be some on the north Cross City in Birmingham too that are close and have non-stop services through
 

Mcr Warrior

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Tamworth and Wilnecote are surprisingly close at line speed non-stop. Wallasey Village - Wallasey Grove Road have a start to stop SRT of 1 min but nothing non-stop and not very speedy either. Must be some on the north Cross City in Birmingham too that are close and have non-stop services through
Tamworth and Wilnecote are almost two miles apart so even a Eurostar would struggle to do that inside 20 seconds. The two Wallasey stations are about a quarter of a mile apart but as you say no non-stoppers on that section of the Birkenhead Park and New Brighton line.
 

CW2

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Did some fag-packet calculations:
New Barnet to Oakleigh Park is 62 chains. Both stations have platforms on all four lines. An Up train passing New Barnet at 125 mph should pass Oakleigh Park about 23 seconds later.
 

Halish Railway

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Goldthorpe to Thurnscoe can be done in 29.7 seconds, with a line speed of 100mph and a distance of 66 chains.

With the same line speed, Kearsley to Farnworth is dispatched in 24.3 seconds with 54 chains between the two stations. Farnworth to Moses Gate is one chain further, however, trains normally begin to slow down by that point to stop at Bolton.
 
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ANDREW_D_WEBB

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Are there any stations where the gap between them is shorter than the longest freight train passing between them? In which case, the time could be argued to be zero

Hanwell to West Ealing for many of the stone trains heading for Acton
 

Eloise

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Any of the Metro stations count near Sunderland? Think low line speed again though through some that are close.
 
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