Trivia: Stations that have direct service to London but few people wishing to travel there

[61653 HTAFC]

Not to veer off topic too much but I wonder if GC will call at Elland and the resited Ravensthorpe when they open?

I can't see them calling at Ravensthorpe unless the improvements lead to a load of housing being built in the immediate surroundings. Elland also unlikely because the service is already glacially-slow until/after Doncaster... but then I didn't expect them to call at Low Moor either!

 

[AndyHudds]

I can't see them calling at Ravensthorpe unless the improvements lead to a load of housing being built in the immediate surroundings. Elland also unlikely because the service is already glacially-slow until/after Doncaster... but then I didn't expect them to call at Low Moor either!

The glacial pace is a gauging issue though but just wondered with Ravensthorpe as it would be easier for the people of Dewsbury to use than Mirfield.

 

[Iskra]

The glacial pace is a gauging issue though but just wondered with Ravensthorpe as it would be easier for the people of Dewsbury to use than Mirfield.

Let's face it, if the people of Dewsbury wish to travel to London by train; the vast majority are going to travel via Leeds, with its much more frequent departures, more frequent connecting services and (probably) quicker journey time.

 

[Ianno87]

Lockerbie in my region must be a contender. The only up avanti service to Euston from there leaves at 7:30am, and since we like our lie ins nobody is ever up on time to catch it. Genuinely think there is a good source of revenue to be found by introducing even one or two more London bound calls at Lockerbie, I know a lot of folk who would use it.

Although presumably most such users would probably be happy to drive to Carlisle anyway to pick up the train there.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The glacial pace is a gauging issue though but just wondered with Ravensthorpe as it would be easier for the people of Dewsbury to use than Mirfield.

The reason Mirfield is used by the more well-off people of Dewsbury is that once they can afford to they move to Mirfield! Ravensthorpe doesn't have quite the same prestige...

I'd always assumed the slow pace was due to poor paths fitting between the TPEs, rather than anything specific to the 180s. However I'd assume that once the railway is upgraded those issues will disappear between Heaton Lodge and Ravensthorpe anyway- if GC are still using 180s by then.

 

[Iskra]

The reason Mirfield is used by the more well-off people of Dewsbury is that once they can afford to they move to Mirfield! Ravensthorpe doesn't have quite the same prestige...

I'd always assumed the slow pace was due to poor paths fitting between the TPEs, rather than anything specific to the 180s. However I'd assume that once the railway is upgraded those issues will disappear between Heaton Lodge and Ravensthorpe anyway- if GC are still using 180s by then.

I always assumed that it was to ensure it met its path down the ECML on time? It does travel across quite a few busy junctions, such as Heaton Lodge, Ravensthorpe, Horbury and Doncaster. Even the Calder Valley is a lot busier than it used to be.

 

[Llandudno]

Lockerbie in my region must be a contender. The only up avanti service to Euston from there leaves at 7:30am, and since we like our lie ins nobody is ever up on time to catch it. Genuinely think there is a good source of revenue to be found by introducing even one or two more London bound calls at Lockerbie, I know a lot of folk who would use it.

Crikey if they won’t use one at 0730 I can’t see much demand for any later in the day!

 

[route101]

Carstairs . Love to know how many use the sleeper from there.

 

[Ianno87]

The reason Mirfield is used by the more well-off people of Dewsbury is that once they can afford to they move to Mirfield! Ravensthorpe doesn't have quite the same prestige...

I'd always assumed the slow pace was due to poor paths fitting between the TPEs, rather than anything specific to the 180s. However I'd assume that once the railway is upgraded those issues will disappear between Heaton Lodge and Ravensthorpe anyway- if GC are still using 180s by then.

I always assumed that it was to ensure it met its path down the ECML on time? It does travel across quite a few busy junctions, such as Heaton Lodge, Ravensthorpe, Horbury and Doncaster. Even the Calder Valley is a lot busier than it used to be.

"Poor paths" is just the reality of combining a specific path on the ECML with weaving around the very complex Trans Pennine and Calder Valley service patterns (including freight) on multiple flat junctions. Finding half-decent paths at all is no mean feat in itself.

 

[totally]

I never imagined Alsager and Kidsgrove having that many passengers using the direct services through to London Euston, but perhaps they do, for tourism purposes. And both those stations seem to have a fair amount of footfall for other destinations.

Same goes with Kirkham & Wesham, having a direct service to/from London Euston, can’t imagine many using the service direct to London, but stand to be corrected.

Pre Covid 19 I regularly used the 1633 Euston Blackpool which calls at Kirkham and Wesham and Poulton le Fylde . Mondays to Thursdays it is the only train to do this Northbound (Fridays also has the 1846) also there is a 0530 Blackpool to Euston( Monday to Friday) which would have relatively low numbers. So I'm pretty certain that these trains have less than 100 per day to or from London. Blackpool will have more than 100 as it has the 3 Pendalinos which do not make these stops.

 

[backontrack]

Always seems to be plenty of folk with luggage waiting for GC at Mirfield, and I'm pretty sure they aren't holidaying in Doncaster! It's a railhead for Dewsbury and the Spen Valley for London trains, as well as having as good or better connections for Huddersfield as Brighouse does.

Agreed. Odds on it's the Huddersfield railhead.
I'd say Low Moor and Ponterfract Monkhill.

I can't see them calling at Ravensthorpe unless the improvements lead to a load of housing being built in the immediate surroundings. Elland also unlikely because the service is already glacially-slow until/after Doncaster... but then I didn't expect them to call at Low Moor either!

I think Elland is a decent shout. It'd be strange if they called at Low Moor, which isn't a town, but not Elland, which is.

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I'm guessing that Tulloch wins. Also Dalwhinnie and Roy Bridge will be there.

Carstairs . Love to know how many use the sleeper from there.

Probably a few more than you'd think...Biggar, Carluke and Lanark passengers would drive there. Not a massive chunk of demand, but I don't think it'd be bottom of the list.

 

[backontrack]

My guess would be Colwall. It always felt strangely surreal to be standing on a tiny platform in a little country village and then see an 8 coach Paddington-bound HST pulling up.

I'd guess Honeybourne counts. 66k passengers per year, so 182 entry/exits per day, or 91 return journeys. Generally the biggest flow from Vale of Evesham stations is to Worcester rather than Oxford/Reading/London.

Pershore (95k per year) is probably similar.

Very decent shouts. I'd also say Finstock further down the line probably beats them though.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Low Moor, Brighouse and Mirfield stations all have free parking which is a big attraction for those doing day trips to London (provided of course that there is a convenient train back).

 

[Iskra]

I've attempted to catch GC London trains twice from Mirfield, the first time the train was cancelled but there were 8 people on the platform waiting for it. The second time, 12 people got on. A small number of passengers did get off at Doncaster. Doncaster, was however where the train dramatically filled up on that occasion. I didn't get as clear a picture of loadings on the way back, but from memory I wasn't the only one who got off at Mirfield on the way home on one of the evening services.

 

[Peter Bonner]

What about Beverley to Kings Cross by Hull Trains? Not currently running. But there were two southbound services but only one back. Wd love to know usage figures. 0753 from Bev might be used by commuters ito Hull of course.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Chertsey and Addlestone have a direct service to Waterloo via Brentford, but most passengers for London generally travel in the opposite direction, to Weybridge, for the much faster service from there. A similar phenomenon can be seen at Wimbledon, where trains from the St Helier direction empty out as most passengers take the quicker services to Waterloo or by way of the District Line rather than the long and winding route to Blackfriars.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Chertsey and Addlestone have a direct service to Waterloo via Brentford, but most passengers for London generally travel in the opposite direction, to Weybridge, for the much faster service from there. A similar phenomenon can be seen at Wimbledon, where trains from the St Helier direction empty out as most passengers take the quicker services to Waterloo or by way of the District Line rather than the long and winding route to Blackfriars.

This somewhat reminds me of the late VXC/XC Brighton service that ran from various destinations in the North, via Kensington Olympia and East Croydon. I wonder how many passengers actually used it as a service to London, I did read somewhere (might have been on this forum a number of years ago) that fares were cheaper.

The journey time would have been quite a bit longer that using direct services to the London Terminals from the various stations it stopped at. Then there is the issue of actually getting from Kenny O’ or East Croydon onwards to where you need to be in London.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Chertsey and Addlestone have a direct service to Waterloo via Brentford, but most passengers for London generally travel in the opposite direction, to Weybridge, for the much faster service from there. A similar phenomenon can be seen at Wimbledon, where trains from the St Helier direction empty out as most passengers take the quicker services to Waterloo or by way of the District Line rather than the long and winding route to Blackfriars.

I bet a fair number of those that use the cross-platform change for Waterloo in the morning will catch the direct train back home in the evening, to avoid the walk in the other direction!

 

[30907]

This somewhat reminds me of the late VXC/XC Brighton service that ran from various destinations in the North, via Kensington Olympia and East Croydon. I wonder how many passengers actually used it as a service to London, I did read somewhere (might have been on this forum a number of years ago) that fares were cheaper.

The journey time would have been quite a bit longer that using direct services to the London Terminals from the various stations it stopped at. Then there is the issue of actually getting from Kenny O’ or East Croydon onwards to where you need to be in London.

Current thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-a-xc-service-from-kensington-olympia.203322/

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Current thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-a-xc-service-from-kensington-olympia.203322/

Thank you for sharing this thread, an interesting read. I must admit, that is not a section of the forum I visit often!

 

[norbitonflyer]

This somewhat reminds me of the late VXC/XC Brighton service that ran from various destinations in the North, via Kensington Olympia and East Croydon. I wonder how many passengers actually used it as a service to London,

I did, when I worked in Kensington and had a meeting in Brighton or Gatwick.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I did, when I worked in Kensington and had a meeting in Brighton or Gatwick.

That’s interesting to know. That must have been convenient for you, as the route south of London is pretty much identical to those taken by the regularly scheduled trains heading there.

I was also thinking to myself that if anybody was using the XC service to London, it is more likely going to be those using it from south of London, or like you, specially to/from Kenny O’ or East Croydon.

 

[Parallel]

Do Kidwelly and Ferryside still get a morning GWR service to London Paddington? If so they must be contenders.

 

[30907]

That’s interesting to know. That must have been convenient for you, as the route south of London is pretty much identical to those taken by the regularly scheduled trains heading there.

I was also thinking to myself that if anybody was using the XC service to London, it is more likely going to be those using it from south of London, or like you, specially to/from Kenny O’ or East Croydon.

http://www.1s76.com/ linked on the other thread suggests the original market was Gatwick (hence the southbound overnight train); the Kenny stop was a later addition.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Very decent shouts. I'd also say Finstock further down the line probably beats them though.

Finstock's certainly quieter, but it doesn't have any direct Paddington services any more - both the up and down trains are back to Turbo operation. (For a while, the evening down train was a through service from Paddington.)

 

[SoccerHQ]

Absolutely not, there are a staggering number of commuters that travel from Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath and Swansea going to London, and not just between 7am-9am but also mid afternoon. If you get on an IET at Cardiff at about 8am that's come from Swansea, it's fairly full already and most are on their way to London as I've overheard commuters discussing their onward journey on the tube. Whenever I'm going to London or Bristol I try and get a service that starts at Cardiff where I have first choice of seats.

There's even a fair few from up in the Valleys that drive down to stations such as Neath to get the London train.

My line would be people who work in Bristol commuting from Cardiff/Newport. Would rather get on a 8 coach and just change at Bristol Parkway for Filton/Temple Meads than a direct train that would be much slower and only a few coaches (the one that ends in Portsmouth).

Not in the spirit of the thread though due to the high volume at those stations.

 

[ValleyLines142]

My line would be people who work in Bristol commuting from Cardiff/Newport. Would rather get on a 8 coach and just change at Bristol Parkway for Filton/Temple Meads than a direct train that would be much slower and only a few coaches (the one that ends in Portsmouth).

Not in the spirit of the thread though due to the high volume at those stations.

Only problem with that though, is the the connections at Bristol Parkway aren't great. In fact, they're even worse since the December timetable change.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

I would nominate both Menheniot in Cornwall and Devonport, just outside Plymouth. Both have the same morning train direct to London Paddington, but I'd be surprised if anyone used it to travel beyond Plymouth!
The train in question is 1A76 06.04 Penzance to London Paddington.

 

[backontrack]

Finstock's certainly quieter, but it doesn't have any direct Paddington services any more - both the up and down trains are back to Turbo operation. (For a while, the evening down train was a through service from Paddington.)

Ah, I see, thanks.

I would nominate both Menheniot in Cornwall and Devonport, just outside Plymouth. Both have the same morning train direct to London Paddington, but I'd be surprised if anyone used it to travel beyond Plymouth!
The train in question is 1A76 06.04 Penzance to London Paddington.

VERY good shout.

 

[SoccerHQ]

Only problem with that though, is the the connections at Bristol Parkway aren't great. In fact, they're even worse since the December timetable change.

Yeah coming down from Midlands I notice the Paddington train is already on the platform so too much of a rush for those hoping to get quickly to Swindon or Didcot.

XCs every half hour and one stopper inbetween so not terrible going in Bristol direction and you've also got plenty of buses to get people to Cribbs/Filton/Gloucester road if they so wish.