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Trivia: Stations with more platforms than they need for regular service

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BeijingDave

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It might, perhaps, be simpler if you thought of Hooton P1 not as a platform but as a siding. It is used primarily to stable stock and, very occasionally, to turn shuttles when engineering works closes the line further north.

There are other sidings, and platforms used as sidings, at several other stations on the Merseyrail network. For example, Southport, New Brighton, Rock Ferry and Birkenhead Central. And of course there is the rarely used platform 2? at James Street.

Nobody is suggesting curtailing services at Rock Ferry or James Street purely to bring these short sections of track into use.

"Shuttles" rarely work - you only have to look at the history of the Ellesmere Port - Helsby shuttle to see that. Or the underuse of Watford Jn - St Albans Abbey due to the lack of through workings to Euston.

The people who advocate shuttles are usually the people who don't have to use them. I change at Hooton a lot when travelling to and from Chester. It's not the greatest interchange station. The shop has closed, it can be cold and wet and there are only a couple of tiny waiting rooms and shelters. It's saving grace is the toilets, ME trains being toilet free, but these could go if the powers that be close the ticket office.

I am afraid we must agree to differ. I take a much more passenger focussed view than you. Cut the branches off a tree and the whole tree withers. Make journeys for Ellesmere Port passengers more difficult and many will choose other means of transport. And you will lose money not save it.

I agree. However, it has always struck me as strange how averse people are to changing overground trains, when many people think nothing of it on subway/metro systems where one or two changes (including some with a very lengthy walk such as at Green Park on the Undergound, and many others on split levels) are widely tolerated.
 
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Old Yard Dog

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The main difference between the tube and national rail trains is frequency. You don't have to worry about connections on the tube (which is even more unsuited to the mobility impaired or those with luggage or children than ME).

The other problem with reducing Hooton - Ellesmere Port to a shuttle would be which connections would you prioritise? ELP-LIV, ELP-CTR, LIV-ELP or CTR-ELP? You can't make all four connections convenient - some would involve long waits, particuluarly in the evenings.
 

Mcr Warrior

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You don't have to worry about connections on the tube...
The possibly exceptions being towards the end of service, when you're not quite sure when exactly the last tube train is to wherever it is that you want to go, or if you're doing an overly tight Cross London transfer from one London Terminal to another, and your onward journey maybe involves a time-specific Advance ticket.
 

John Luxton

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"Shuttles" rarely work - you only have to look at the history of the Ellesmere Port - Helsby shuttle to see that. Or the underuse of Watford Jn - St Albans Abbey due to the lack of through workings to Euston.

St Erth to St Ives proves they can work!
The people who advocate shuttles are usually the people who don't have to use them. I change at Hooton a lot when travelling to and from Chester. It's not the greatest interchange station. The shop has closed, it can be cold and wet and there are only a couple of tiny waiting rooms and shelters. It's saving grace is the toilets, ME trains being toilet free, but these could go if the powers that be close the ticket office.

I am afraid we must agree to differ. I take a much more passenger focussed view than you. Cut the branches off a tree and the whole tree withers. Make journeys for Ellesmere Port passengers more difficult and many will choose other means of transport. And you will lose money not save it.
I didn't realise the shop had closed I have changed trains there once in last few months - but last time I passed through the station building was on a BLS Merseyrail Tour which originated from platform 1. It was open then.
 

rower40

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Do any trains use the terminatinf platforms at Twickenham anymore?
The recent resignalling project abolished platform 1, and platform 2 is out-of-use due to a non-compliant bufferstop. In the pre-resignalling layout, platform 2 could only be entered by a train performing a shunt on the main line. Now there's a facing crossover just country-end of St Margarets, the bufferstops have to be upgraded as it's a main route into the platform - but it's still a route that conflicts with both Up lines. So it'd have to be a strange service pattern to make it worth re-opening platform 2 without causing other delays elsewhere.

PS platform 2 nowhere near long enough for a 10-car 458/5.
 

Old Yard Dog

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ME closed several MToGo shops during the pandemic. I believe only four are left, these being at

Hamilton Square
Liverpool South Parkway
Liverpool Central
Southport
 

Ayman Ilham

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Seaside terminal stations seem to be somewhat known for this. Skegness springs to mind
I think Skegness is the best example here out of all of them, given it only has a single hourly service to Nottingham outside of special summer services (thus 6 platforms is OVERKILL), whereas others like Blackpool, Southport, Scarborough and Cleethorpes have multiple different services running different ways and especially Blackpool which also has high frequencies that require the amount of platforms it has, thus doesn't make this list.
 

HamworthyGoods

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I think Skegness is the best example here out of all of them, given it only has a single hourly service to Nottingham outside of special summer services (thus 6 platforms is OVERKILL)

That’s why it’s been rationalised to only 4 platforms, numbers 2,3,4 and 5.
 

Watershed

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Happy to be corrected but I don’t think platform 2 is operational and hasn't been for years. Not sure about 5 either.
3 is the usual platform used with 4 for the summer Saturday extras (were HSTs, soon to be 180s).
6 & 7 are officially OOU, whereas 2 & 5 are merely 'restricted use'. But in practice 3 and 4 are the only ones used nowadays.
 

HamworthyGoods

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I've edited my original post to reflect the correct platform numbers. Pretty sure we're thinking the same though.

Indeed, the LNE sectional appendix shows 6 and 7 out of use.

Platforms 2,3,4,5 as per my original post are available for use, although platforms 2 and 5 have no lighting so are restricted - as noted it’s usually platforms 3 and 4 used.

The shunt release ok platform 4 is also out of use.
 

TheBigD

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Indeed, the LNE sectional appendix shows 6 and 7 out of use.

Platforms 2,3,4,5 as per my original post are available for use, although platforms 2 and 5 have no lighting so are restricted - as noted it’s usually platforms 3 and 4 used.

The shunt release ok platform 4 is also out of use.
Thanks for the correction. It'd been a good few years since I was there.

Really surprised at with platform 2 being supposedly available, it wasn't resurfaced like 3/4 and 5/6 agood few years ago and the platform itself is a lot lower than the resurfaced ones.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Thanks for the correction. It'd been a good few years since I was there.

Really surprised at with platform 2 being supposedly available, it wasn't resurfaced like 3/4 and 5/6 agood few years ago and the platform itself is a lot lower than the resurfaced ones.

I believe is the track/pointwork which causes 6 and 7 to be OOU.
 

cuccir

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Ulverston is unique in that its two in service platforms are numbered 1 and 3. Platform 2 is still there but unused, previously serving the Lakeside line.
 

plugwash

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Liverpool James st also has it's two regular-serice platforms numbered 1 and 3 with platform 2 only being used during irregular operations.
 

Class360/1

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I’d say Acton bridge (Cheshire). It has 3 platforms, but only needs 2. Platform 1 is only used for freights, but no passenger trains stop.
 

All platforms

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I’d say Acton bridge (Cheshire). It has 3 platforms, but only needs 2. Platform 1 is only used for freights, but no passenger trains stop.
It does gets used though to allow late running Avanti's from Scotland to pass. It never gets timetabled but it does see use 4 or 5 times a week due to the above. Usage may vary but i tried for this earlier in the year shuttling back and to on the Crewe to Liverpool service and achieved my goal on the third attempt.

Indeed, the LNE sectional appendix shows 6 and 7 out of use.

Platforms 2,3,4,5 as per my original post are available for use, although platforms 2 and 5 have no lighting so are restricted - as noted it’s usually platforms 3 and 4 used.

The shunt release ok platform 4 is also out of use.
Platform 5 last year was used for the "Extra" Saturday services that EM put on for 6 weeks in the summer but at that time of the year lighting wasn't an issue of course. For 2020 i believe the HST's on the same gig were placed into P4, partially because it was (so i was told by the dispatch staff) the longest of the available platforms. This meant the regular services used P3.

I think P5 was used last year to avoid the scrum of passengers boarding/alighting different trains on the island platforrm given P4 is the default one used by normal service trains. It can take quite a while to detrain a full service and the extras depart not long after the normals arrive.
 
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Djgr

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ME closed several MToGo shops during the pandemic. I believe only four are left, these being at

Hamilton Square
Liverpool South Parkway
Liverpool Central
Southport
Are these branded MToGo though?

It might, perhaps, be simpler if you thought of Hooton P1 not as a platform but as a siding. It is used primarily to stable stock and, very occasionally, to turn shuttles when engineering works closes the line further north.

There are other sidings, and platforms used as sidings, at several other stations on the Merseyrail network. For example, Southport, New Brighton, Rock Ferry and Birkenhead Central. And of course there is the rarely used platform 2? at James Street.

Nobody is suggesting curtailing services at Rock Ferry or James Street purely to bring these short sections of track into use.

"Shuttles" rarely work - you only have to look at the history of the Ellesmere Port - Helsby shuttle to see that. Or the underuse of Watford Jn - St Albans Abbey due to the lack of through workings to Euston.

The people who advocate shuttles are usually the people who don't have to use them. I change at Hooton a lot when travelling to and from Chester. It's not the greatest interchange station. The shop has closed, it can be cold and wet and there are only a couple of tiny waiting rooms and shelters. It's saving grace is the toilets, ME trains being toilet free, but these could go if the powers that be close the ticket office.

I am afraid we must agree to differ. I take a much more passenger focussed view than you. Cut the branches off a tree and the whole tree withers. Make journeys for Ellesmere Port passengers more difficult and many will choose other means of transport. And you will lose money not save it.
I don't agree with making Ellesmere Port a shuttle but it is a fair comment that its performance has always been a bit of a disappointment.

Perhaps a salutary lesson for those who want to electrify to Burscough (large village), the hamlets between there and Southport and building to Skelmersdale (based on population dispersals from when the Beatles were top of the charts).

With the exception of about 2 miles around Southport none of these places are in Liverpool City Region anyway.
 
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Old Yard Dog

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Are these branded MToGo though?


I don't agree with making Ellesmere Port a shuttle but it is a fair comment that its performance has always been a bit of a disappointment.

Perhaps a salutary lesson for those who want to electrify to Burscough (large village), the hamlets between there and Southport and building to Skelmersdale (based on population dispersals from when the Beatles were top of the charts).

With the exception of about 2 miles around Southport none of these places are in Liverpool City Region anyway.

There are a number of factors why the Ellesmere Port branch gets fewer passengers than perhaps it should.

There is very little parking near Little Sutton or Overpool stations while the car park at Ellesmere Port is lonely and not perceived as safe. So drivers drive to Hooton which has a huge and very safe car park charging just £1 a day.

Hooton enjoys more frequent trains to Liverpool than Ellesmere Port - and direct services to Chester. It is also considered part of Merseyside for ticketing purposes so enjoys a number of cheaper fares. It also has a ticket office open all hours and toilets. Little Sutton and Overpool are unstaffed while Ellesmere Port ticket office only opens M-F 6am-2pm approx.

But Hooton is in the middle of nowhere with hardly any connecting bus services so is of little use to those without cars.

And of course Ellesmere Port would get more passengers if there was a usable service to the east.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Plymouth: I don't think Platforms 1 and 2 are ever used or even if they are useable. Only Platforms 3 to 8 are used and most of the time these are empty.

Today is an example of why although platforms may not been needed for the revalue service, they are needed to try and deliver the regular service robustly, especially at places where traincrew relief takes place.

An obstruction on the line in Cornwall has caused chaos this afternoon and the attached screenshot shows you can easily end up with a station full of trains waiting relief with a queue of services outside waiting for a vacant platform.

There is a very fine line between needed for timetabled services and needed to reliably deliver the timetable service.
 

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rower40

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How does it get resolved if all the relief drivers are on the trains queuing outside the station, waiting for an available platform? And the platforms all occupied by trains with no drivers?
(Another plug for a Traffic Management System that considers Crew and Stock, as well as signalling...)
 

chessie

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It does gets used though to allow late running Avanti's from Scotland to pass. It never gets timetabled but it does see use 4 or 5 times a week due to the above. Usage may vary but i tried for this earlier in the year shuttling back and to on the Crewe to Liverpool service and achieved my goal on the third attempt.


Platform 5 last year was used for the "Extra" Saturday services that EM put on for 6 weeks in the summer but at that time of the year lighting wasn't an issue of course. For 2020 i believe the HST's on the same gig were placed into P4, partially because it was (so i was told by the dispatch staff) the longest of the available platforms. This meant the regular services used P3.

I think P5 was used last year to avoid the scrum of passengers boarding/alighting different trains on the island platforrm given P4 is the default one used by normal service trains. It can take quite a while to detrain a full service and the extras depart not long after the normals arrive.
By coincidence as I was only reading this thread last night, we were pulled into Platform 5 this morning at Skegness and I really can't remember the last time that happened. We were 30 mins late into Skegness on the 0645 from Nottingham so maybe it was just because the 0731 from Nottingham wouldnt have been too far behind us by then.
 
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