[Trivia] Two local stations with no fares available

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Saperstein, 26 Jun 2019.

  1. AlbertBeale

    AlbertBeale Member

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    But if this forum had been running a few generations ago, there would have been direct trains from Waterloo to Waterloo East (then Waterloo Junction, I think), running from a non-terminating platform in the main station across what is now just a concourse/shopping centre and over what was later (in my memory) the walking route from Waterloo Main above the road to W East - before you had to go up a level before you could leave W Main in that direction. That ex-railway bridge and (less-)ex-pedestrian route is still there, disused. Frustrating that you can't take a short-cut over it to get between the stations...
     
  2. Old Yard Dog

    Old Yard Dog Member

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    If you wanted to make this journey without changing direction, the shortest route, I believe, would be via Preston, Lancaster and Skipton.
     
  3. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    I wanted to say this but Newhaven Marine is closed
     
  4. smsm1

    smsm1 Member

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    I've just checked and it it possible to get a train fare between Dunbar and North Berwick. For first Saturday in July, I've found £9.95 for a std adult single advance fare each way. Sometimes you have to fiddle with the times, due to the low number of trains calling at Dunbar.

    I remember reading something about a double back at Edinburgh allowed for trips between the stations in the routing guide, however checking now suggests it's only for travelling from Berwick and beyond:
    There's another similar one re tickets saying direct, saying this isn't allowed.

    Screenshot 2019-06-28 at 20.18.11.png
     
  5. Chris M

    Chris M Member

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    Were there ever fares between Woolwich Arsenal and North Woolwich?
    National Rail is offering a journey via Leeds on Monday (13:30 Forster Square to Leeds, arr 13:56, 14:06 Leeds to Bradford Interchange arr 14:27)
     
  6. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Strange how it still retains its NVM code on BRFares, suffice to say no fares available! nothing on RTT now though which surprises me, last I heard the odd x5xx service reversed there.
     
  7. clagmonster

    clagmonster Established Member

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    Dunbar to North Berwick is unusual because the only fares available are for advance tickets, routed XC & Connections. This will have arisen due to the clusters Cross Country have used for setting their advance fares.
     
  8. Sprinter107

    Sprinter107 Member

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    It's the same station.
     
  9. js517

    js517 Member

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    Pontefract Monkhill to Pontefract Baghill.

    I particularly like the combination of tickets that trainsplit suggests for this journey!
     
  10. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    I just wonder - if you discount all the journeys where tickets can't be bought and daft ones like Burscough Jn to Burscough Bridge - how many stations have (let's say since 2000) NEVER had tickets bought between them? ie. no-one has ever bought Westhoughton to Tain. Or have they......and is there a way to find out??
     
  11. Deafdoggie

    Deafdoggie Established Member

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    Damn Autocorrect!
    I thought it was still “open” (as in never officially closed) but it just has no fares or trains?
     
  12. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    If you work within the revenue part of the rail industry, yes, through LENNON, the BR database where all ticket sales are recorded. But only a very limited amount of LENNON data gets publicly released (in the form of statistics).
     
  13. thegilb

    thegilb New Member

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    Technically still open. Mothballed is the correct term.
     
  14. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Thanks, but booo...why not? Be fascinating **for nerds like me**.
     
  15. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Because it's considered commercially sensitive - that's the same reason you'll see any such Freedom of Information requests to Operators of Last Resort (e.g. LNER) rejected. I don't really buy that argument for most routes, but I admit that there are a couple of cases where competition between modes of transport and different companies might make it plausible that revealing more data could commercially disadvantage the revealing TOC.
     
  16. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Thanks again; Hmm. If we can have Geoff's "Least Used Stations" on youtube, how commercially insensitive is "least used route"? Ans surely the actual busiest route between two stations is of huge interest publicly?
     
  17. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    We have Mr Marshall's series thanks to the open data about station usage that's released by the ORR and has been for many years now. This data comes from the number of tickets bought to and from each given station. Clearly, for some lines, e.g. branches, you can definitely tease out a lot of information from having the passenger figures for each station.

    But for other places, like major stations with several lines coming in and out, where there's actually more likely to be the kind of commercial sensitivities that prevent the release of further data, it will be very difficult to break down usage in any meaningful manner.
     
  18. Traveller54

    Traveller54 Member

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    I would have thought that Paisley Gilmour Street to Paisley Canal qualified but you can go via Glasgow Central for the same fare as to Central, takes about 50 minutes, walking takes about 6 minutes.
     
  19. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    £3.70 for an Anytime Day Single, £5.90 for an Anytime Day Return, £4 for an Off Peak one.

    http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=PCN&dest=PYG
     
  20. Ianigsy

    Ianigsy Member

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    One of the issues with split ticketing is that it doesn't tell the industry what journeys people are actually making. To use the original example of Westhoughton to Tain, an intending passenger might find it cheaper to buy a single to Wigan and then separate Wigan-Edinburgh and Edinburgh-(Inverness)-Tain advances. I'm currently on holiday in Scotland and used my MCard to Shipley, advance from Shipley to Glasgow, single from Glasgow to Oban (both booked with TPE), will head to Inverness tomorrow by coach and then Inverness to York (advance booked with LNER) and York-Leeds single (booked with TPE). At no point will the system see the overall journey I'm making.
     
  21. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    'Fortunately' for the industry, the percentage of journeys made using split tickets is probably still less than 1%, or perhaps 2% at most. Of course there will certain types of journeys - e.g. in particular those involving long distance trains - where splitting will be far more common. But when you see the kinds of tickets people present during ticket checks, it is very rare to see anyone show split tickets.

    People who split tickets only at stations where they were changing trains anyway are probably not putting the statistics too far out - seeing as interchange statistics are already recorded for stations with more than a nominal number of 'predicted' interchanges. And whilst interchanges are not the same as entries and exits, at least the data is contributing towards having some sort of image of station usage. So it is mainly people who split at stations where they're not changing who are actually skewing the figures.

    There are many reasons why the TOCs are keen on more digital forms of ticketing (i.e. e-tickets, m-tickets, barcoded paper tickets, smartcards, Oyster/contactless). The primary reason for them is that it reduces their costs and makes certain types of fare evasion a lot harder to do and a lot easier to spot. But I suppose that having greater information about the journeys people make, and on which trains, changing where, may also be a secondary consideration.
     
  22. Eccles1983

    Eccles1983 On Moderation

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    Runcorn to Runcorn east
     
  23. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    I think I'm right in saying that the only stations in Greater Manchester with tickets to/from Denton or Reddish South are the stations with direct trains to them (Guide Bridge, Stalybridge, Stockport, and Denton and Reddish South themselves), as well as Irlam for some reason. Other nearby stations (Reddish North or Heaton Chapel, say) don't have any tickets, and nor does central Manchester.

    They're just treated as part of the Stockport flow for longer distance tickets, so have tickets to almost everywhere else.
     
  24. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    It's difficult to even think of a route for this not involving TfL when N Woolwich was open.

    Cecil J Allen, longstanding railway author, was given an all-line pass by British Rail. In the days before the Glasgow Central cross-city line was opened, he arrived at Central station there but was continuing from Queen Street. He said his most cost-free route was the local Edinburgh service all the way to Haymarket, then back to Queen Street from there. So he at least had a valid ticket for the journey.
     
  25. Chris M

    Chris M Member

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    Re Woolwich Arsenal to North Woolwich:
    Woolwich Arsenal to London Bridge on South Eastern, Thameslink to West Hampstead Thameslink, walk to West Hampstead North London Line, Silverlink to North Woolwich.
    If you want no changes of station though then:
    Woolwich Arsenal to Lewisham, Lewisham to Victoria, Victoria to Clapham Junction, Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction, Willesden Junction to North Woolwich.
    Both of course very much more circuitous than via the ferry.
     
  26. delt1c

    delt1c Member

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    Tyndrum upper to Tyndrum Lower
     
  27. 172006

    172006 Member

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    It wasn't possible to plan an overnight journey between the two because Angel Road closed on Friday and Meridian Water opened on Monday. On the other hand, I've read (I don't remember if on Railforums or another site) about a train accidentally stopping at Meridian Water - and passengers alighting - before it opened, so it was possible to go from Angel Road to Meridian Water by train!
     
  28. methethpropbut

    methethpropbut Member

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    Might that fare potentially be useful for someone from Paisley doing a day trip to Glasgow - buy a single, break journey in Glasgow, return to the other station?
     
  29. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    A return from Paisley to Glasgow is the same price.
     
  30. methethpropbut

    methethpropbut Member

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    But surely one only needs a single PCN-PYG to do PCN-GLC-PYG? So you pay 3.70 as opposed to 5.80 for a PCN-GLC return to do PCN-GLC-PCN (assuming peak travel, say)
     
    Last edited: 4 Jul 2019

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