Troublesome freight train on the Maidstone East line in morning peak

[brad465]

During the morning peak a freight train from Dollands Moor to Daventry runs up the line in question, as 621Q leaving DM at 0707. This train is timetabled to run ahead of 2A16 0727-0908 AFK-VIC, where at Maidstone East the freight is timed 10 minutes ahead of the passenger service, then around 3-4 minutes ahead at Bromley South, but the freight goes via Catford after that, so gets out of the way.

However this freight train has a record for being late, where only about 5+ minutes delay is enough to add delay to the passenger train. Yesterday was a notable example of this, where the late freight train delayed the VIC train by over 10 minutes. I rarely need to get the service in question, but did yesterday, so got to hear the MDE station manager urging passengers to complain, to try and help Southeastern persuade "the controller" (his words) to sort this recurring issue out.

Is it necessary to have this/a freight train going through into London this way during the morning peak, which is clearly causing issues, and how easily could a rerouting/retiming actually be achieved?

 

[DarloRich]

Is it necessary to have this/a freight train going through into London this way during the morning peak, which is clearly causing issues, and how easily could a rerouting/retiming actually be achieved?

could it be that the freight train is more important than you?

 

[The Planner]

It needs investigating as to what is causing it to be late first before the usual "oh its freight, just retime it or put it somewhere else" It could well be a passenger train elsewhere causing it to be delayed.
If its on time and still causes issues then its a different story.

 

[brad465]

could it be that the freight train is more important than you?

As I said I rarely get the service, so yes as a service it is more important than me/any individual passenger. What prompted me to raise it was yesterday's situation, including the announcement made by the station manager telling passengers to complain about it.

It needs investigating as to what is causing it to be late first before the usual "oh its freight, just retime it or put it somewhere else" It could well be a passenger train elsewhere causing it to be delayed.
If its on time and still causes issues then its a different story.

Good point I have to say.

This is the freight service in question, and the passenger service following it.

 

[DarloRich]

As I said I rarely get the service, so yes as a service it is more important. What prompted me to raise it was yesterday's situation, including the announcement made by the station manager telling passengers to complain about it.

we have a similar situation on many mornings when a freightliner delays our trains from Euston. it is always blamed on the fright train and while i think the freight train being late at Wembley/Willesden is the immediate reason for the delay to my train I am sure a passenger train somewhere else delays that freight. The freight needs to run ahead of my train so it gets a clear run to Northampton/Rugby or it will get stuck in the stopping service and delay even more services but it is very frustrating!

 

[The Planner]

As I said I rarely get the service, so yes as a service it is more important than me/any individual passenger. What prompted me to raise it was yesterday's situation, including the announcement made by the station manager telling passengers to complain about it.

Good point I have to say.

This is the freight service in question, and the passenger service following it.

It appears to be 6M45, and it does look a problem child as it had a couple of minutes "unexplained loss in running" today and hit the passenger behind it. It is timed as an 1800t trailing weight and had 1580t behind it today. It could need to be filed as nice on paper, not in reality and a fix needed.

 

[30907]

As I said I rarely get the service, so yes as a service it is more important than me/any individual passenger. What prompted me to raise it was yesterday's situation, including the announcement made by the station manager telling passengers to complain about it.

This is the freight service in question, and the passenger service following it.

It looks from that one example as though the freight is the primary cause of delay, including a slight delay at Ashford to let an up passenger run to time.

In terms of your original question:
it runs at the tail end of the morning peak (0900 at Peckham Rye, almost as if the earliest the timetable rules allow).
It takes the least used route through Kent, so can't be rerouted.
It could probably be retimed 30 or 60 minutes later, but that might well take another freight path with knock-on effects.

 

[ZL exile]

A big factor that you are ignoring is the signal aspects that 6M45 was receiving, a signal 9or more) late being cleared causes the freight driver to slow by braking, several in a row and time is soon lost. A slight delay as above at Ashford adds further delay is it is planned to have a clear run. Very hard to judge without the signal data, but that these issues could easily cause that delay. Freight trains don’t just go from 0-60 in seconds, same true the other way waiting for the brakes to fully release on the train takes much longer on a freight service than on a passenger service.

 

[brad465]

A big factor that you are ignoring is the signal aspects that 6M45 was receiving, a signal 9or more) late being cleared causes the freight driver to slow by braking, several in a row and time is soon lost. A slight delay as above at Ashford adds further delay is it is planned to have a clear run. Very hard to judge without the signal data, but that these issues could easily cause that delay. Freight trains don’t just go from 0-60 in seconds, same true the other way waiting for the brakes to fully release on the train takes much longer on a freight service than on a passenger service.

Signal spacing along this route is relatively large, where almost all signals are 3 aspect on a 70-80mph single speed limit (down to 25mph through MDE). The spacing is long enough that while a train is sat in Barming on the up journey, which is 4-5 mins up from MDE station, the signal at the end of the platform for the latter is still yellow. You can substitute Bearsted and MDE in respectively to that example and get the same result.

 

[ZL exile]

Running on restrictive aspects as you suggest that 6M45 wouldn’t be doing it’s 60 mph max speed, probably 30-40 mph, so that will probably lose time against its schedule, add in any temporary or emergency speed restrictions, it soon adds up.
Most companies have a version of a professional driving policy which drivers are expected to follow, this will deal with driving trains on restrictive signal aspects, with recommended speeds at scauionary signals and at 200m from a stop signal.

 

[30907]

Running on restrictive aspects as you suggest that 6M45 wouldn’t be doing it’s 60 mph max speed, probably 30-40 mph, so that will probably lose time against its schedule, add in any temporary or emergency speed restrictions, it soon adds up.
Most companies have a version of a professional driving policy which drivers are expected to follow, this will deal with driving trains on restrictive signal aspects, with recommended speeds at scauionary signals and at 200m from a stop signal.

Agreed, as far as the check at Ashford is concerned, but as far as I can see once the train passed Ashford it should have run under clear signals right through to Swanley!

 

[yorksrob]

Isn't there a freight loop at Otford where the passenger service could overtake ?

 

[30907]

Isn't there a freight loop at Otford where the passenger service could overtake ?

Yes, but it would have made little difference as the passenger lost no time from Charing to Otford. It would have been a couple of minutes earlier at Swanley, the freight would have been 10-15 later.