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Trump vs Kim-Jong Un: War or Bluster?

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Masboroughlad

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So, rhetoric is heightening at quite a pace, as Trump and Kim-Jong Un escalate tensions.

Nobody seems unduly worried at the moment, but should we be. Two stupid, volatile and dangerous men winding each other up.

Hope I am wrong, but I am expecting a surprise attack by America.
 
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RichmondCommu

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I think it's Bluster. Neither nation would be so stupid as to go to war. This kind of thing happens every year when the US and South Korea hold joint exercises.
 

dgl

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I think that with China getting more and more annoyed with North Korea and China's realisation that most of it's wealth has come from foreign manufacturing companies meand NK essentially has no real friends and if it did try something it would essentially be NK against the world.

Hopefully NK understand this and realise any attempt at attack would be blown out of the sky, resulting in a near complete destruction of NK.

An attack that actually hit America would be quite disastrous but I think it could rebuild from it. North Korea not so.
 

43021HST

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Scare mongering aside, North Korea's military technology is nowhere near to that of America's, so represents no real threat.

It's the usual blustering from both parties, North Korea trying to appear that it has some kind of military strength and America exercising it's usual intolerance towards countries that refuse to dance to their tune.

The only real danger is how this might impact on Chinese relations, but even then I think the Chinese realise the value of American trade for their economy and vice versa.

Given Trumps lack of diplomacy and irrationality, I think America is relatively likely to go to war with north Korea, obviously the tragic consequences being the loss of life and power vacuum created in that part of the world by American aggression but I don't think it'll bring on the nuclear Armageddon the scaremonger's would have you believe.

At least Obama made attempts to build links with North Korea, Trump simply doesn't understand diplomacy at all, all he does is add to the sum of human misery.
 
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DarloRich

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I think it's Bluster. Neither nation would be so stupid as to go to war. This kind of thing happens every year when the US and South Korea hold joint exercises.

I hope it is bluster. The problem is we seem to be dealing not with mature politicians but with simpletons. I doubt the USA would fire first but if, say, Guam was attacked they would respond with understandable ( and quite righteous) fury. The problem is both sides have nuclear weapons and this could escalate very quickly.

BTW It is Augustus Gloop v an Oompa-Loompa in a nuclear show down potentially leading to Armageddon! What a way to bring humanity to an end. :roll:
 

najaB

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I hope it is bluster. The problem is we seem to be dealing not with mature politicians but with simpletons.
Apparently one of them is now referred to as 'The two minute man' by his aides in reference to his attention span. I'll leave you to figure out which one.
 

DarloRich

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Apparently one of them is now referred to as 'The two minute man' by his aides in reference to his attention span. I'll leave you to figure out which one.

It could be either although I would be surprised if Trump has an attention span reaching 2 minutes!

has there ever been a man less suited intellectually, temperamentally, emotionally and mentally to such a vital role as Trump? He makes George W. Bush look like Albert Einstein!
 

J-2739

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While I think that China are not North Koreas best of friends anymore, China will probably try much as it can to keep a buffer state between itself, and South Korea.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un having an arms race is like Jabba the Hutt and Fat B*st*rd from the Austin Powers movies having an argument over which of them is the most desirable to the ladies (or indeed the men).
 

DarloRich

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Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un having an arms race is like Jabba the Hutt and Fat B*st*rd from the Austin Powers movies having an argument over which of them is the most desirable to the ladies (or indeed the men).

it is hardly an arms race.The USA have won. What it is is a race against the point in time where North Korea has a viable nuclear missile that can reach the USA. Once that happens the game changes.
 

Johnny_w

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I'm not usually one for worrying... but the way I see is thusly :-
Two petulant morons with access to nuclear weapons are having a dick waving contest....

Sure, why not.
 

DarloRich

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I'm not usually one for worrying... but the way I see is thusly :-
Two petulant morons with access to nuclear weapons are having a dick waving contest....

Sure, why not.

what could possibly go wrong........................................................
 

najaB

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Just for anyone who's missed the details, one leader said "They will be met with the fire and fury and frankly power, the likes of which this world has never seen before." and the other one said "...strategic steps accompanied by physical action will be taken mercilessly with the mobilization of all its national strength."

But I'm having difficulty remembering who said which one. :?
 

AlterEgo

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Trump is an absolute clown. I encourage anyone who hasn't yet, to watch the video of him actually issuing the "fire and fury" threat. He's stood like a defiant but insecure child, arms tightly crossed. Go watch it. Hardly presidential.

This notwithstanding, Trump has at least accomplished the feat of getting China to rebuke North Korea, which is more than any of his predecessors have done. Regional pressure is key, rather than direct diplomacy (which seems a complete non starter on the North Korean side). Trump also runs his businesses and the country using a strategy of keeping his opponents guessing his next move, by either deliberately shifting positions or by being deliberately vague.

Now, we are all wondering whether Trump really will risk a nuclear confrontation. We could be absolutely sure that Obama would not have risked this.

The North Koreans will be wondering the same.
 

DarloRich

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Very odd body language there. I assume he thinks that shows he is in no mood for negotiating ( shown by some of his verbal cues) but it just comes across as being insecure and defensive.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I think it's Bluster. Neither nation would be so stupid as to go to war. This kind of thing happens every year when the US and South Korea hold joint exercises.

Has North Korea ever actually named an American base in that section of the globe previously as one that was a likely target? I wonder what the American missile defence system is like there?
 

flymo

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There was a speech by Arnold J Rimmer in Red Dwarf about wars in the days of yore and how the side with the shortest haircuts always won and why in the Vietnam war as there were crew cuts both sides it was a no score draw.

Well, as there is a war of words with the 2 guys in the world with the worlds worst haircuts ever in the history of humanity, I think it will be another no score draw. Living in Asia, nobody can give two ticks about the nutter in Nor-Kor and the last thing they will do will be to tick off Uncle Sam especially as big Uncle China is just on the doorstep. I mean Guam.....really !!! its full of Japanese and Koreans, not many Americans there for goodness sake. One strike on Guam and Nor-Kor will disappear off the planet.

Kim Jong Wrong-un needs a good spanking like a spoilt brat. His father and grandfather would hang their collective heads in shame.
 

Barn

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has there ever been a man less suited intellectually, temperamentally, emotionally and mentally to such a vital role as Trump? He makes George W. Bush look like Albert Einstein!

George W. Bush had an unfortunate habit of appearing unintelligent in public. I'm not saying that he is some sort of intellectual giant, but all indications were (and I believe) that he was far more thoughtful in private, able to accept and process advice, and make somewhat reasoned decisions.

One only needs to look at the latest leak of the transcripts of Trump's calls to the Mexican and Australian leaders to realize that he really is just as idiotic in private as he is in public.
 

DynamicSpirit

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It could be either although I would be surprised if Trump has an attention span reaching 2 minutes!

has there ever been a man less suited intellectually, temperamentally, emotionally and mentally to such a vital role as Trump? He makes George W. Bush look like Albert Einstein!

Lets just hope that in 12 years or so's time we won't be posting along the lines of 'has there ever been a man less suited intellectually, temperamentally, emotionally and mentally to such a vital role as <whoever is president>? He makes Donald Trump look like Albert Einstein!'
 

gg1

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Lets just hope that in 12 years or so's time we won't be posting along the lines of 'has there ever been a man less suited intellectually, temperamentally, emotionally and mentally to such a vital role as <whoever is president>? He makes Donald Trump look like Albert Einstein!'

Substitute he for she, there's still time for Sarah Palin to get a future Republican presidential nomination :eek:
 

Busaholic

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I can't believe that Trump's finger on the button doesn't have to be authorised by, if not a higher authority, by someone with greater intellect and understanding than Donald J., which admittedly doesn't rule too many out. Trump would not know this, of course. I suspect this state of affairs is nothing new, but will have been reinforced since last January.
 

najaB

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I can't believe that Drumpf's finger on the button doesn't have to be authorised by...
Until and unless the 25th Amendment is invoked, nobody can lawfully refuse an nuclear strike order from the President.
 

fowler9

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I read a Facebook meme today about a despot ruling a country of starving peasants threatening to attack North Korea which kind of amused me. I think it was all bluster, Trump came out with a load of nonsense and North Korea retaliated by saying they had a plan to attack Guam. On the other hand I think it is wrong to say we shouldn't worry because America has a clear technological advantage. North Korea could still easily do serious damage to South Korea and Japan before America could take out their fighting force. That would of course be very bad for global stability.
 

Busaholic

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Until and unless the 25th Amendment is invoked, nobody can lawfully refuse an nuclear strike order from the President.

I guess if you believe you are about to engage in mutual self-destruction then the legality of disobeying the order is rather academic.
 

antharro

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I expect the second North Korea show any REAL aggression - i.e., fire a missile at an American target - the US will intercept and destroy the missile. Shortly after, Kim Jong Un will find himself on the receiving end of an intense barrage of American fire power and will either find himself dead or unemployed... I doubt there will be much of a war - North Korea is seriously outgunned by the USA. And it will be over very quickly regardless of if the USA's allies get involved. After that? ...
 

Busaholic

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I expect the second North Korea show any REAL aggression - i.e., fire a missile at an American target - the US will intercept and destroy the missile. Shortly after, Kim Jong Un will find himself on the receiving end of an intense barrage of American fire power and will either find himself dead or unemployed... I doubt there will be much of a war - North Korea is seriously outgunned by the USA. And it will be over very quickly regardless of if the USA's allies get involved. After that? ...

And China just stands back and observes?!
 

fowler9

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I expect the second North Korea show any REAL aggression - i.e., fire a missile at an American target - the US will intercept and destroy the missile. Shortly after, Kim Jong Un will find himself on the receiving end of an intense barrage of American fire power and will either find himself dead or unemployed... I doubt there will be much of a war - North Korea is seriously outgunned by the USA. And it will be over very quickly regardless of if the USA's allies get involved. After that? ...

Do you reckon North Korea will attack an American target without taking a serious swipe at Seoul at the same time, it is only just over the border and North Korea have the 4th biggest standing army in the world and loads of them are just across the demilitarised zone. They are not much smaller than the American forces and are largely right next door to South Korea unlike Americas forces.
 

antharro

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And China just stands back and observes?!

I'm not sure what China would do. They've gone from being staunch NK defenders to being, at least publicly, on board with everyone else in the most recent sanctions. Would they get involved in a war? I really don't know. It would be one hell of a confrontation, China vs the USA. I like to think it wouldn't happen - we're talking about two countries that are not considered "rogue" so they *should* be able to control themselves.


Do you reckon North Korea will attack an American target without taking a serious swipe at Seoul at the same time, it is only just over the border and North Korea have the 4th biggest standing army in the world and loads of them are just across the demilitarised zone. They are not much smaller than the American forces and are largely right next door to South Korea unlike Americas forces.

Good point. Do they (NK) have the resources to launch multiple attacks? If so then drawing SK in there would, I think, ensure an even swifter end to it all. USA + SK + allies = bye bye NK.
 
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