Trying to make a complaint about failure of air conditioning on GWR

[Deafdoggie]

Are you exaggerating? No other trains in 4 hours and no proper shelter at a train station?

Most of the stations I have visited / used have at least 2 trains per hour per direction, with a significant portion of the stations having 4 trains per hour or more.

For example, my local station, which is a minor station on the Thameslink, has 4 trains per hour. The next station up the line have about 10. Look at the Overground nearby, 8 trains per hour. Jubilee line, about 20 trains per hour.

I don't want someone having heat stroke on a 378 unit with failed air conditioning. By the way, can passengers open the window for ventilation if the air conditioning fails in these trains?

The original poster was in rural Cornwall! Some stations there have a sparse service and no waiting rooms. The UK consists of far more than London you know?

 

[Haywain]

Most of the stations I have visited / used have at least 2 trains per hour per direction, with a significant portion of the stations having 4 trains per hour or more.

In which case you need to get out more and see the rest of the country, not just the south-east. There's a reason there are constant complaints in the media about services not being of the same standard when you get out to other regions. And we're not just talking small towns - try looking at the service provision at places like Scarborough, Barrow, and Barnstaple. A 4 hour wait might be extreme, but 2 trains an hours at such places is dreamland.

 

[Neptune]

Are you exaggerating? No other trains in 4 hours and no proper shelter at a train station?

You really need to start considering that the UK rail network is far more than the obviously few suburban lines down south that you have used. We have a vast rural rail network and yes there are some routes with 4 hour gaps.

Most of the stations I have visited / used have at least 2 trains per hour per direction, with a significant portion of the stations having 4 trains per hour or more.

Sounds like a small proportion of the country that you’ve visited from that then.

For example, my local station, which is a minor station on the Thameslink, has 4 trains per hour. The next station up the line have about 10. Look at the Overground nearby, 8 trains per hour. Jubilee line, about 20 trains per hour.

My local station has 2tph also but that is a suburban route into Leeds. However I also have rural long distance trains calling at my local station that go north of the end of the suburban route with some gaps of 90 minutes to 2 hours using air conditioned trains through some extremely remote places. The UK is not just London and the SE. It’s a whole lot more than that.

I don't want someone having heat stroke on a 378 unit with failed air conditioning. By the way, can passengers open the window for ventilation if the air conditioning fails in these trains?

A 378 works on a route that is of Metro frequency where people have far more choice of trains to catch.

Can I politely ask why do you not acknowledge that what you propose is totally unworkable and actually unreasonable in a very large proportion of the UK which has a much lesser train service than the areas you evidently visit (assuming London & SE).

I actually find it quite insulting that when myself and others are pretty much telling you that a whole network of sparsely served rural lines operate throughout the UK where it would be a pretty horrendous thing to dump people at a platform with nothing more than a bus shelter to protect potentially hundreds of passengers from direct sunlight you as much as tell us all that we’re talking crap and that as far as you’re concerned the entire network is a minimum 2 - 4tph railway and you will not be swayed from that opinion.

Of course I’m sure you’ll think that we’re all wrong and we don’t have a clue about the UK rail network.

 

[skyhigh]

I actually find it quite insulting that when myself and others are pretty much telling you that a whole network of sparsely served rural lines operate throughout the UK where it would be a pretty horrendous thing to dump people at a platform with nothing more than a bus shelter to protect potentially hundreds of passengers from direct sunlight you as much as tell us all that we’re talking crap and that as far as you’re concerned the entire network is a minimum 2 - 4tph railway and you will not be swayed from that opinion.

I agree to be honest. I work on the railway and have lived in the UK my whole life, yet I get told I'm wrong by someone who doesn't appear to realise London isn't the whole of the UK!

Presumably the same parts are used on all identical trains in a fleet

Not necessarily. There are at least 3 variations on the air con system of a 158, for example.

Perhaps even a bit of regular maintenance might pre-empt some of the failures?

They are regularly maintained

 

[35B]

It takes the same amount of effort to fix the aircon, whether it's one day after failure or three weeks after failure. What needs to change is the attitude to fixing it. Presumably the same parts are used on all identical trains in a fleet, so it's only a small increase in spares inventory to have them instantly available. Perhaps even a bit of regular maintenance might pre-empt some of the failures? (I've no idea what the weak points of train aircon are!).

That presumes that the sets are all identical, and that there is sufficient inventory of parts. There have been many accounts of even very small expenditure being blocked by DfT, despite the impact on customers.

It's also worth bearing in mind that the GWR fleet includes many class 158 and 165/166 units, which have to achieve a fine balance between powering the air conditioning and actually going as everything needs to be powered from a fairly lacklusture 350hp per car.

 

[Haywain]

It's also worth bearing in mind that the GWR fleet includes many class 158 and 165/166 units, which have to achieve a fine balance between powering the air conditioning and actually going as everything needs to be powered from a fairly lacklusture 350hp per car.

Plus the equipment will be fairly old by now and that can make obtaining spare parts much more difficult.

 

[miklcct]

Heart of Wales line? Far North line? (though extreme heat less of a problem up there?) Berney Arms?

You haven't visited very many UK stations then. No-one is talking about London/South East commuter stations or city metro systems.

Your points "may" be applicable on metro systems, but not on the rest of the UK network.

I have never heard of those lines. I have travelled on many lines in the UK rail network, like South West Main Line, Wessex Main Line, Portsmouth Direct, East Coast Main Line, West Coast Main Line, HS1, Great Western Main Line, Reading-Basingstoke, Reading-Waterloo, Brighton Main Line, North London Line, West London Line, and so on. Even in the most rural bit of the network there are trains every hour, except Beaulieu Road. The only line which I know and don't have an hourly service is Heart of Wessex, connecting Weymouth and Yeovil, and I have never travelled on that line.

 

[BJames]

I have never heard of those lines. I have travelled on many lines in the UK rail network, like South West Main Line, Wessex Main Line, Portsmouth Direct, East Coast Main Line, West Coast Main Line, HS1, Great Western Main Line, Reading-Basingstoke, Reading-Waterloo, Brighton Main Line, North London Line, West London Line, and so on. Even in the most rural bit of the network there are trains every hour, except Beaulieu Road. The only line which I know and don't have an hourly service is Heart of Wessex, connecting Weymouth and Yeovil, and I have never travelled on that line.

At risk of repeating other people, it has been explained above that there are many other lines that have trains far less than every hour. Just because you haven't experienced them doesn't mean they don't exist! To take GWR to try and stay on topic, despite the fact that there are now relatively regular services Plymouth to Penzance, if you're on the Gunnislake branch, you'll be waiting for 2 hours (sometimes a bit more) for the next train - which is formed of the same unit anyway! See here: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...22-08-15/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Similar with Newquay branch.

The original poster was in rural Cornwall! Some stations there have a sparse service and no waiting rooms. The UK consists of far more than London you know?

And precisely - absolutely tiny halts with nothing around, no staff, certainly no Uber and a proper drive to the nearest major place.

I fully agree that units with air con are far more pleasant to ride on in these temperatures. Indeed, if I was not in a rush and I was on one of the inner London routes (e.g. travelling Hampstead Heath to Stratford) and the next train, 5 minutes behind, had air conditioning, I may well wait. But many wouldn't - connections to catch, not that bothered/can put up with it, etc.

Some units (e.g. hello 158s) have pretty unreliable air conditioning anyway - what's the point of waiting for the next one that may be broken too for all we know?

As you've never heard of Heart of Wales Line, they have their own website, it is operated by Transport for Wales: https://www.heart-of-wales.co.uk/

 

[AlterEgo]

I have never heard of those lines. I have travelled on many lines in the UK rail network, like South West Main Line, Wessex Main Line, Portsmouth Direct, East Coast Main Line, West Coast Main Line, HS1, Great Western Main Line, Reading-Basingstoke, Reading-Waterloo, Brighton Main Line, North London Line, West London Line, and so on. Even in the most rural bit of the network there are trains every hour, except Beaulieu Road.

That’s what, 10% if the network, solely concentrated in the wealthier south. You really need to get out more before telling posters here they’re wrong or dismissing what they tell you.

Most of us here have a LOT of experience with the network. I’m 36 and was born here and I’ve been hardcore bashing trains for about 20 years. I’ve completed 95% or thereabouts of the network and I’ve worked in a railway control centre. A very significant part of the country has a sparse rail service. Very few stations are air conditioned. And very few stations of our 2500 plus shacks can accommodate a full train’s worth of people in shelter during a heatwave.

The only line which I know and don't have an hourly service is Heart of Wessex, connecting Weymouth and Yeovil, and I have never travelled on that line.

If you know so little about the British railway network it might be wise to listen more than you speak, with all due respect.

 

[XAM2175]

I have never heard of those lines. I have travelled on many lines in the UK rail network, like South West Main Line, Wessex Main Line, Portsmouth Direct, East Coast Main Line, West Coast Main Line, HS1, Great Western Main Line, Reading-Basingstoke, Reading-Waterloo, Brighton Main Line, North London Line, West London Line, and so on.

Here is the enormous PDF map of all the lines and stations on the GB network. Hopefully you find it to be illuminating.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/TOCs%20AS%20v52%20July%202022.pdf

 

[skyhigh]

The only line which I know

You've just demonstrated you've used a tiny proportion of the rail network yet you're still lecturing us on how Hong Kong has better infrastructure.

Have a look at the Bentham line, or the Settle-Carlise if you want more examples of less than hourly services. There are loads of examples across the country.

 

[DelayRepay]

I have never heard of those lines. I have travelled on many lines in the UK rail network, like South West Main Line, Wessex Main Line, Portsmouth Direct, East Coast Main Line, West Coast Main Line, HS1, Great Western Main Line, Reading-Basingstoke, Reading-Waterloo, Brighton Main Line, North London Line, West London Line, and so on. Even in the most rural bit of the network there are trains every hour, except Beaulieu Road. The only line which I know and don't have an hourly service is Heart of Wessex, connecting Weymouth and Yeovil, and I have never travelled on that line.

The clue is in the bits I have bolded. Of course main lines have better frequencies and station facilities. But there are hundreds of stations that are not on main lines, like the one I mentioned earlier. At such stations you would be lucky to even get a drink of water, unless there's a local shop nearby.

And even taking these lines - have a look at Avanti's current timetable. 1tph between London - Manchester and they are struggling to operate that due to staff shortages. Would you really want to cancel one of those services because of failed air conditioning? You could leave passengers waiting for hours which would not be acceptable, even if the station they were waiting at was well equipped.

 

[philthetube]

In which case you need to get out more and see the rest of the country, not just the south-east. There's a reason there are constant complaints in the media about services not being of the same standard when you get out to other regions. And we're not just talking small towns - try looking at the service provision at places like Scarborough, Barrow, and Barnstaple. A 4 hour wait might be extreme, but 2 trains an hours at such places is dreamland.

Whitby

 

[Benjwri]

I have never heard of those lines. I have travelled on many lines in the UK rail network, like South West Main Line, Wessex Main Line, Portsmouth Direct, East Coast Main Line, West Coast Main Line, HS1, Great Western Main Line, Reading-Basingstoke, Reading-Waterloo, Brighton Main Line, North London Line, West London Line, and so on. Even in the most rural bit of the network there are trains every hour, except Beaulieu Road. The only line which I know and don't have an hourly service is Heart of Wessex, connecting Weymouth and Yeovil, and I have never travelled on that line.

Even on an hourly service, in a lot of areas you mention even an hourly service is not frequent enough for the cancellations you suggest. Take stations on the line through Bristol to Bath and beyond, which don't benefit from the London - Bristol fast services. Some are little more than a platform with a seats under a cover with glass sides, which become literal greenhouses in the heat. They might have hourly services, but they go to varying destinations, so if you're wanting to go past Bristol or Westbury you're likely going to end up waiting somewhere.

Plus just cancelling services doesn't take into account that services on these GWR lines are already cancelled more than is ideal for train failures, signal failures etc, and almost every one is at least 15 minutes late.

 

[MikeWh]

This thread has turned into a pile-on against a member who maybe made an unwise suggestion. I don't think there is any benefit in continuing along these lines. Hopefully the OP received some advice from the earlier posts.