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TSB "meltdown" customers "can't use cards".

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Howardh

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https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ing-troubles-uk-public-finances-business-live for running updates

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43877667

The boss of TSB has apologised for its IT fiasco amid rising customer fury as the crisis continued for a fourth day.
Paul Pester said he was "deeply sorry" and promised no one would be left out of pocket as a result of the issues.

He said the bank would take down its mobile app and online banking "for a few hours", adding "we hope to be back up later this afternoon."

TSB customers have demanded information as they remain locked out of their accounts and unable to make payments.

The bank's data breach on Sunday - which allowed some customers to see other accounts - has also attracted the attention of the technology watchdog



Although I'm with another bank, I carry around a debit and credit card (same bank) and a small amount of cash.

If I arrived at a station and the card was declined through no fault of my own - or had boarded a train legitimately (ie with a "promise to pay ticket") and when the guard came round the cards failed...what then??

Can a copy of the card be taken and payment be made later? I'm sure that could be happening quite a lot today; what's the procedure for both passenger and staff?
 
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johntea

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You can use the card no problems, I bought breakfast with mine this morning as well as a couple of things yesterday!

Just the online banking with the issues I believe.
 

Clip

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https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ing-troubles-uk-public-finances-business-live for running updates

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43877667

The boss of TSB has apologised for its IT fiasco amid rising customer fury as the crisis continued for a fourth day.




Although I'm with another bank, I carry around a debit and credit card (same bank) and a small amount of cash.

If I arrived at a station and the card was declined through no fault of my own - or had boarded a train legitimately (ie with a "promise to pay ticket") and when the guard came round the cards failed...what then??

Can a copy of the card be taken and payment be made later? I'm sure that could be happening quite a lot today; what's the procedure for both passenger and staff?
If your card doesn' work for any reason than that is the passenger' issue and not the railways.
 

Bantamzen

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You can use the card no problems, I bought breakfast with mine this morning as well as a couple of things yesterday!

Just the online banking with the issues I believe.

It is I believe, as you say regular card use should be fine, although whilst they sort out the issues I would be tempted to keep all receipts just in case!
 

philjo

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My TSB card worked OK using contactless in Sainsbury's yesterday. I did get an error message last night when trying to log on to the TSB app on my ipad
I do also have a debit card from another bank - partly for convenience also if one card gets blocked for any reason I can still use the other one.
 
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Deafdoggie

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TSB have said no one will be out of pocket, so if the card was declined as a result of their fault alone, then they should, if true to their word, reimburse any genuine costs you incurred as a result
 

Howardh

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TSB have said no one will be out of pocket, so if the card was declined as a result of their fault alone, then they should, if true to their word, reimburse any genuine costs you incurred as a result
Does that mean if a pax gets a penalty fare (could they get a criminal record??) through their card being declined and it's not their fault TSB will pay the fine? Seriously I hope common sense applies and staff simply take a record of the non-functioning card and the pax pays within a suitable time when they can.
It's unfortunate, I suppose, that many of us simply don't carry much cash around as we can use contactless or even our phones and we certainly don't go out assuming our cards won't function.
EDIT last night I only had pennies in actual cash around the house, so went to the pub using contactless payment on the bus to there, and hit a cash machine near the pub to get the money for the pint! Might not have been allowed on the bus if the card failed behind my back!
 

Clip

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Does that mean if a pax gets a penalty fare (could they get a criminal record??) through their card being declined and it's not their fault TSB will pay the fine? Seriously I hope common sense applies and staff simply take a record of the non-functioning card and the pax pays within a suitable time when they can.
It's unfortunate, I suppose, that many of us simply don't carry much cash around as we can use contactless or even our phones and we certainly don't go out assuming our cards won't function.

If your card is declined then you will not be able to purchase a ticket to travel therefore you should not be getting on any train without a valid ticket.
 

robbeech

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Well, it doesn’t take long for new Luke this to reach the railway staff so luckily most of them will have been using common sense. I do agree with the idea that it’s absolutely not the fault of the railway and they have to pick up the pieces of many scenarios that are also not the fault of the railway so I’d accept it if they refused travel or tried to penalty fare or prosecute (though given the circumstances it’s unlikely) but would of course be seeking compensation from the bank.
 

paddington

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If I arrived at a station and the card was declined through no fault of my own - or had boarded a train legitimately (ie with a "promise to pay ticket") and when the guard came round the cards failed...what then??

Can a copy of the card be taken and payment be made later? I'm sure that could be happening quite a lot today; what's the procedure for both passenger and staff?

As mentioned, the only problem with TSB is internet banking and app not working, everything else is fine.

If you arrived at a station and your card was declined, you wouldn't be sold a ticket and you wouldn't be able to board a train.

A promise to pay is issued when you intend to pay by cash.

I believe that cards are not authorised online on board trains. So as long as the card is not physically broken or damaged it will work, it's up to the bank to sort out later. If it's physically damaged, an unpaid fare can be issued and you can pay it later.

What, exactly, would a ticket office do with a picture of a card?
 

scott118

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Although I'm with another bank, I carry around a debit and credit card (same bank) and a small amount of cash.

EDIT last night I only had pennies in actual cash around the house, so went to the pub using contactless payment on the bus to there, and hit a cash machine near the pub to get the money for the pint! Might not have been allowed on the bus if the card failed behind my back!

If that was the case, would you have chosen another pub that was closer? Or not gone out drinking, should your card have failed in an ATM?

So how has the 'TSB saga' directly affected you?

What does a guard do, when a card has been declined, when there is no ongoing bank saga in place? Perhaps a UFN?

My TSB card has worked fine since the upgrade like many others. However some attempts to log in online have been declined. Once logged in though, so far, i can see that I have all the funds I expect, to be available to me. Maybe I'm just one of the 'lucky' ones. May I ask, does your bank make payments on a weekend/bank holiday, or does it wait until the proceeding Monday to make those payments? My account stores all of the weekend payments into pending, and then deducts my account on a Monday. Perhaps this is where others may have been inconvienced. Those who only use their account online have surely been affected. However should you have a card within your presence, nothing has been declined to my knowledge. Sat/Sun, Mon/Tues, what's the difference?

Should the TSB offer myself some form of compensation, for not being able to access my account online, then who am I to decline it. Perhaps I have too much money already, to have to log on hourly, to ensure I have sufficient funds to make a purchase. Personally, I've not been inconvienenced. Nor will I be asking for compensation, should that be the case..
 

Howardh

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I think some are missing my point.
It's perfectly valid at some stations where you can't buy a ticket so you either get on board to buy later or get the "promise to pay" ticket.
So when you reach your final station and are ready to buy your ticket, by card, what then happens if (and it doesn't matter if it's TSB, BST, STB bank or anyone...)
(a) the card is declined because of insufficient funds - basic cards don't have an overdraft facility - so it's pax's fault and can expect a penalty
or
(b) the systems are down r/e the bank
and/or
(c) the systems are down r/e the ticket office.
Surely that must have happened at least once if not a thousand times. What's the procedure?

Also I understand (please correct) that TFL buses are cashless. So if all cards are down, maybe those pesky Russian have finally hacked in :E or just one particular bank...does everyone involved get a free ride as there's no other way to pay??
 
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Starmill

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It stands for Unpaid Fares Notice. It means that your "debt" will be passed to another company called ITAL, whom you cannot contact except by Premium Rate phone number, and who claimed to me when asked that they only accept Debit Cards or Visa Credit. So if you wanted to pay with MasterCard or American Express, or even cash... you were out of luck. They did also say they would accept a cheque or a Postal Order.
 

cav1975

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The moral of this story is always carry cards from two completely separate banks. There are many credit card issuers these days so no need to stick to one supplier. Ideally have one Visa and one MasterCard so that you are safe against problems with one of those worldwide giants.

PS I rarely carry enough cash to buy one of today's expensive on the day rail tickets!
 

ForTheLoveOf

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It stands for Unpaid Fares Notice. It means that your "debt" will be passed to another company called ITAL, whom you cannot contact except by Premium Rate phone number, and who claimed to me when asked that they only accept Debit Cards or Visa Credit. So if you wanted to pay with MasterCard or American Express, or even cash... you were out of luck. They did also say they would accept a cheque or a Postal Order.
Well of course there is also the rather drastic option of paying the appropriate sum into the Court Funds Office and notifying ITAL and the TOC of this, as a defence to any civil claim. I believe they accept cash or cheque. Possibly also cards, depending on how you pay in.
 

scott118

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I think some are missing my point.

Also I understand (please correct) that TFL buses are cashless. So if all cards are down, maybe those pesky Russian have finally hacked in :E or just one particular bank...does everyone involved get a free ride as there's no other way to pay??

Card activity isn't affected. It's online transactions only.
 

LowLevel

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As mentioned, the only problem with TSB is internet banking and app not working, everything else is fine.

If you arrived at a station and your card was declined, you wouldn't be sold a ticket and you wouldn't be able to board a train.

A promise to pay is issued when you intend to pay by cash.

I believe that cards are not authorised online on board trains. So as long as the card is not physically broken or damaged it will work, it's up to the bank to sort out later. If it's physically damaged, an unpaid fare can be issued and you can pay it later.

What, exactly, would a ticket office do with a picture of a card?

On-board card payments are now online with the new generation of ticket machines.

As for retaining the card details for later - not allowed. The railway doesn't have a policy to permit this and thus it would be a breach of the data protection regulations to have a customer's card details hanging about for no reason. We are specifically not permitted to take note of a customer's card details in any circumstances.
 

Wallsendmag

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On-board card payments are now online with the new generation of ticket machines.

As for retaining the card details for later - not allowed. The railway doesn't have a policy to permit this and thus it would be a breach of the data protection regulations to have a customer's card details hanging about for no reason. We are specifically not permitted to take note of a customer's card details in any circumstances.
How do you process refunds?
 

johntea

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The moral of this story is always carry cards from two completely separate banks. There are many credit card issuers these days so no need to stick to one supplier. Ideally have one Visa and one MasterCard so that you are safe against problems with one of those worldwide giants.

PS I rarely carry enough cash to buy one of today's expensive on the day rail tickets!

I have my TSB debit card and a Barclays credit card, the credit card can be useful as if you time purchases around your statement dates you don't end up having to pay until a month or so later, paid off in full each statement there is no interest charged, but granted you do need the will power to make sure you get it paid off in full each month! Another bonus is it reports to your credit file so can help build that a bit.

Think the problem here is TSB customers were warned of downtime, but 3 days later people obviously aren't too happy they still can't get in! No doubt the project was outsourced to the cheapest IT company they could find in India of course!
 

MikeWh

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And according to tonight's news the problem could be getting considerably worse. A business was quoted as being unable to pay their staff because they hadn't been able to log in and set up the transactions. The staff won't necessarily bank with TSB.
 

LowLevel

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How do you process refunds?

You get the customer to stick the card in the machine having checked the last 4 digits on the receipt (the ones that aren't starred out, we don't get merchants coupons anymore) match the card, the customer confirms the amount and a refund receipt is printed.

Later refunds are dealt with by customer relations etc who request bank details for a transfer.

Under no circumstances is a train guard allowed to be walking around with a passenger's card details in 2018.
 

Deafdoggie

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Should the TSB offer myself some form of compensation, for not being able to access my account online, then who am I to decline it. Perhaps I have too much money already, to have to log on hourly, to ensure I have sufficient funds to make a purchase. Personally, I've not been inconvienenced. Nor will I be asking for compensation, should that be the case..

When NATWEST had issues a few years ago, they paid me 75p. I went wild & blew it all in one go.
 
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robbeech

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When NATWEST had issues a few years ago, they paid me 75p. I went wild & blew it all in one go

I’m not familiar with how one can spend that sort of money in one go. I can only assume it was gold or land or a short advance single ticket priced by XC.
 

Howardh

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That 75p compensation, anyone noticed the timing coincidence between the banks giving that out and the banking crisis? Think we know where the blame lies now....
 

Deafdoggie

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I singly handedly brought down the banking system! I aim to do the same with TSB!
 
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