Tube & Bus fares to go up

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,969
Location
0035
ThisIsMoney.com said:
CASH fares on the London Underground and the capital's buses are to rocket by a third. A single zone 1 Tube journey will soar from £3 to £4. A cash fare on the bus will go up from £1.50 to £2 next January.

Mayor Ken Livingstone has ordered a dramatic rise in the fares in an attempt to force passengers to use pre-pay Oyster cards. Fares bought on the electronic cards are not expected to go up at all - reinforcing the drive to increase their use.

However, the move sparked anger today as it means the cost of travelling one stop on the Tube will have quadrupled in two years. Brian Cooke, chairman of London passenger watchdog TravelWatch, said the rise would mean the transport system in London becoming 'far too expensive for visitors and tourists'.

He described the cost of £4 for a single one-station trip as 'astronomical', adding: 'We are extremely concerned about the rise in cash fares. There are still not adequate facilities for tourists and users to buy discount tickets so it will hit them really hard.'

Roger Evans, Tory transport spokesman for the London Assembly, added his condemnation. 'We have been expecting fare increases for a long time - but not as large as this. One of the main concerns is that it will drive people away from public transport and back into their cars. There is already evidence of this happening.' The rise in cash fares forms part of Mr Livingstone's overall plan to eliminate cash use on both Tube and bus.

In January this year the cash cost of travelling in zone 1 on the Underground went up by £1 to £3 but for those using pre-paid tickets the cost was £1.50.

About 370,000 cash journeys are made every day out of the 6.4m journeys on buses in the capital but the pre-pay Oyster card has been a massive success for TfL. More than a million pay-as-you-go Oyster card journeys are made each day, and 2m Oyster season ticket journeys.

They cannot currently be used at 250 rail stations across London. This will not be resolved until 2008, when card readers are fitted at all rail stations in zones 1 to 6.

Today commuters said the rises were excessive. Jon Daniels, a 36-year-old sales manager from Wokingham, said: 'It will just encourage people to drive again.' Charlotte Shore, 28, of Basingstoke, said: 'They are putting up the C-charge and if they put fares up, what are we supposed to do? They just don't want anyone to come into London.'
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

devon_metro

Established Member
Joined
11 Oct 2005
Messages
7,561
Location
London
It's still a bargain. Want expensive bus fares? Come to Paignton! 90p for a 2 mile journey! And anyway a majority of Londeners are on far higher salaries than in the SW!

Still not good anyway.
 

Nick W

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2005
Messages
1,438
Location
Cambridge
Surely it's possible for tourists/visitors to deposit some money for an oyster (like we might buy a carnet in france).
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,969
Location
0035
The problem is, the £3 Oyster deposit is refunded in vouchers to get money off future tickets.

It also seems to me, that many people simply don't understand the system, including Londoners. For example, at Cockfosters in late August, I witnessed a woman trying to buy a single to Warren Street on her Oystercard.
 

gordonthemoron

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2006
Messages
6,133
Location
Milton Keynes
At the mo, day ticket for zone 1&2 is £4.90 so it is considerably cheaper than 2 singles. Most tourists would probably but day tickets.

However, the reason I got an Oyster card is for connecting from one rail terminus & another. If you buy an add on to a National Rail ticket, it costs an extra £3 each way. Surely Tfl should only charge the same as for an Oyster ticket as it is in effect a non-cash transaction (having been paid outside London)?
 

ChrisCooper

Established Member
Joined
7 Sep 2005
Messages
1,787
Location
Loughborough
If TfL is so serious about Oyster, why don't they get their finger out and get them working on NR aswell. I've got an Oyster card, but many of my trips to London involve (and ofter centre around) trips on NR services, so it's useless and I have to buy a paper travelcard. Infact, since I've had my Oyster about 6 months ago, I've been to London 4 times but only used it once, since the other 3 times I've used NR aswell so bought a travelcard. I can also imagine situations where people used to having paper travelcards are using NR without realising they can't with Oyster, and perhaps getting fines, although since it's a technicality that's making you're ticket invalid, fining people would be very unfair, but then if a lot of people make the same mistake and get caught, it's a good source of income.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,969
Location
0035
They have - funding has been arranged to get PrePay working on National Rail in the next few years - the TOCs have been difficult about it as it'll hit their profits, and the lack of Zonal pricing in much of the surburban rail network has made it difficult.
 

Sturdjos

Member
Joined
27 Jan 2006
Messages
86
Location
UK
This price hike will presumably also hit stations outside of the zones also, in buying a travelcard for example?

Eg - at the moment, an off peak Travelcard from Brentwood costs 10.50 (my pound sign isn't working - sorry) - will it go up by much .... I presume it will, seeing as it would be an excuse for 'One' to hike up their prices also! ::)
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,969
Location
0035
I doubt they'll put up the price of Travelcards unless it's part of a general price rise, rather than a price rise to put people off paying cash where there's an Oyster alternative, as there is no equivalent to the One Day Travelcard on Oyster yet.
 

Jim

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2005
Messages
3,166
Location
Wick
But Liam, in quoting that Stagecoach bus fare, you have to remember that in some areas, a stagecoach all day all route jobby is only £3.75 for u16
 

richa2002

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
2,143
:lol: I love it how they say that the fares have soared from £3 to £4. Bloody hell, a pound! But if we're talking percentages it is a 33% rise :?
 

gordonthemoron

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2006
Messages
6,133
Location
Milton Keynes
I doubt they'll put up the price of Travelcards unless it's part of a general price rise, rather than a price rise to put people off paying cash where there's an Oyster alternative, as there is no equivalent to the One Day Travelcard on Oyster yet.

Aledgedly (according to Tfl) if you use an Oystercard, you will never pay more that 50p less than a one day travelcard.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,969
Location
0035
Aledgedly (according to Tfl) if you use an Oystercard, you will never pay more that 50p less than a one day travelcard.
For public ones, that's true - to make up for the fact you cant use it on certain NR services, but the Priv Capping is £2 - same as the travelcard that's also valid on NR and Buses.
 

tubenutter

Member
Joined
24 Apr 2006
Messages
209
Location
Rugby
It's still a bargain. Want expensive bus fares? Come to Paignton! 90p for a 2 mile journey! And anyway a majority of Londeners are on far higher salaries than in the SW!

Still not good anyway.
I pay £1 for 2 miles in Rugby, and that's a Child ticket.
 

Flying Badger

New Member
Joined
11 Sep 2006
Messages
2
Location
Nottingham
I think the biggest issue with the £1 rise is the impact it will have on tourists, who are not familiar with travelcards.

£4 for a single journey? Well, I think it stinks.

Here in Nottingham, we have a tram network which is less than 2 years old. A peak single costs £2, or £1.20 off peak for a journey of up to 9 miles. A day 'travelcard' costs £2.20 for tram only, and £2.50 to include all Nottingham City Transport busses, with no restrictions on time.

I know you have to expect to pay more in London, but a £4 single? Silly.

Cheers

Gaz
 

mindthegap

Member
Joined
9 Sep 2006
Messages
11
Firstly the mayor introduces the congestion charge encouraging people to use public transport. Now he's raising the fares encouraging people to get an oyster card. Yes, I agree the oyster card is a good idea but not if you live a long distance from a underground station and your nearest station is a national rail station where the oyster card is not valid. The Mayors obviously trying to make people invest in an oyster card. Tourists may well find London one of the most expensive cities in the world for travel.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
50,358
Location
Yorkshire
It's still a bargain. Want expensive bus fares? Come to Paignton! 90p for a 2 mile journey! And anyway a majority of Londeners are on far higher salaries than in the SW!

Still not good anyway.
No it's not a bargain. And we're talking fares of £4 for such journeys, considerably more than 90p.

However, the reason I got an Oyster card is for connecting from one rail terminus & another. If you buy an add on to a National Rail ticket, it costs an extra £3 each way. Surely Tfl should only charge the same as for an Oyster ticket as it is in effect a non-cash transaction (having been paid outside London)?
That's funny, because the reason I refuse to get an Oyster (apart from I'm against the principle) is that I only use the Underground to connect from one rail terminus to another - and it's far cheaper to use NR tickets for that!

What sort of journeys do you do? Also, do you have a railcard?

I've never found any journey where the cheapest option is to pay for those expensive tube singles, or even Oyster. It's nearly always cheaper to ensure at least 1 ticket includes a cross-London transfer, in my experience. Some tickets cost zero extra for this.
 

gordonthemoron

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2006
Messages
6,133
Location
Milton Keynes
That's funny, because the reason I refuse to get an Oyster (apart from I'm against the principle) is that I only use the Underground to connect from one rail terminus to another - and it's far cheaper to use NR tickets for that!

What sort of journeys do you do? Also, do you have a railcard?

I've never found any journey where the cheapest option is to pay for those expensive tube singles, or even Oyster. It's nearly always cheaper to ensure at least 1 ticket includes a cross-London transfer, in my experience. Some tickets cost zero extra for this.
Fares on Midland Mainline website:
Nottingham to London Saver £45.70
Nottingham to London Zone 1 Saver £51.70

That's £6 extra (i.e. 2x£3) for the tube
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,969
Location
0035
Yes, but if you're doing a journey that involves going through London, but not ENDING there - it can be cheaper to buy a through ticket (if marked with the Maltese cross) valid on LU, as opposed to doing it on 2 separate tickets with Oyster Prepay.
 

gordonthemoron

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2006
Messages
6,133
Location
Milton Keynes
Yes, but if you're doing a journey that involves going through London, but not ENDING there - it can be cheaper to buy a through ticket (if marked with the Maltese cross) valid on LU, as opposed to doing it on 2 separate tickets with Oyster Prepay.
That's all very well but I generally have to buy a separate ticket for Eurostar so can't use a through ticket
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,969
Location
0035
If going with Eurostar, you should buy a ticket to London International, which includes your travel to Waterloo and also offers protection incase your connection has been delayed. It can also work out cheaper, and has less restrictions when compared to other walk-on tickets.
 

gordonthemoron

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2006
Messages
6,133
Location
Milton Keynes
If going with Eurostar, you should buy a ticket to London International, which includes your travel to Waterloo and also offers protection incase your connection has been delayed. It can also work out cheaper, and has less restrictions when compared to other walk-on tickets.
That's interesting, why don't TOCs publicise this?

Just checked on MML website, they don't show London International as a valid destination
 

Tom C

Member
Joined
4 Jul 2005
Messages
549
No it's not a bargain. And we're talking fares of £4 for such journeys, considerably more than 90p.
Bus fares are going up to £2 not £4.

I've never found any journey where the cheapest option is to pay for those expensive tube singles, or even Oyster. It's nearly always cheaper to ensure at least 1 ticket includes a cross-London transfer, in my experience. Some tickets cost zero extra for this.
Couple of examples

Nottingham to St Pancras SVR £45.70
Nottingham to South Hampstead (via Euston) SVR £45.80
Nottingham to Charlton/Wandsworth Town/Ealing Broadway/Wembley Stadium (Via Charing X/Cannon Street/London Bridge, Waterloo, Paddington or Marylebone) £49.50

All of them offer substantial discounts buying paper tickets
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
4,075
Location
Wittersham Kent
No it's not a bargain. And we're talking fares of £4 for such journeys, considerably more than 90p.


That's funny, because the reason I refuse to get an Oyster (apart from I'm against the principle) is that I only use the Underground to connect from one rail terminus to another - and it's far cheaper to use NR tickets for that!

What sort of journeys do you do? Also, do you have a railcard?

I've never found any journey where the cheapest option is to pay for those expensive tube singles, or even Oyster. It's nearly always cheaper to ensure at least 1 ticket includes a cross-London transfer, in my experience. Some tickets cost zero extra for this.
I agree with you generally but if your travelling from South of London there are instances where the own toc ticket (in my case for Southern a Daysave ticket or Pricebuster) plus oyster plus advance purchase ticket on the north of london toc are the cheapest combination.

For instance the cheapest gner advance ticket is not available South of London. If I want to go from Littlehampton to York the cheapest GNER+ connections advance is £23.50 but a Southern Daysave £10 + Oyster £1.50 + Gner advance 1 (KX to York) £9.50 is £22.00. If its a day trip thats £32 instead of £47
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
50,358
Location
Yorkshire
Fares on Midland Mainline website:
Nottingham to London Saver £45.70
Nottingham to London Zone 1 Saver £51.70

That's £6 extra (i.e. 2x£3) for the tube
Nottingham to Clapham Jn £49.50 is cheaper than the Zone 1 Saver, and if going for a day trip a Zones 1-6 travelcard (from rolleston) is £37.50.

But Mojo is correct that you need a ticket to London International if going by Eurostar, otherwise you are NOT protected in the event of delays.

e.g. if you get a Nottingham-London Saver, and a London-somewhere else advance purchase, and your MML train is late, you can get another train providing tickets cover you for the through journey (as per NCoC conditions) and providing you adhered to minimum interchange time. But if you are connecting to Eurostar and MML is late you are NOT covered and would have to buy a whole new Eurostar ticket! Buying to London International means that you have peace of mind. You can only buy them in combination with a Eurostar ticket though, I believe.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
50,358
Location
Yorkshire
I agree with you generally but if your travelling from South of London there are instances where the own toc ticket (in my case for Southern a Daysave ticket or Pricebuster) plus oyster plus advance purchase ticket on the north of london toc are the cheapest combination.

For instance the cheapest gner advance ticket is not available South of London. If I want to go from Littlehampton to York the cheapest GNER+ connections advance is £23.50 but a Southern Daysave £10 + Oyster £1.50 + Gner advance 1 (KX to York) £9.50 is £22.00. If its a day trip thats £32 instead of £47
Is Southern Daysave really cheaper than a point-to-point ticket? That's crazy! (I wish GNER had something similar! ;)) Yes, there will always be exceptions to every rule as each TOC does things differently.

If you are travelling on FGW, then you can get the tube for virtually no extra cost even on the cheapest advance purchase tickets, I have found.

But you are quite right in that the cheapest GNER fares are very much GNER-only.

I'd still find an alternative for Oyster though on point of principle ;) :D
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
50,358
Location
Yorkshire
Nottingham to South Hampstead (via Euston) SVR £45.80
That is a bargain![1]

My understanding is all Z1 transfers are treated the same, so such a ticket would let you out at any "London terminal" e.g. even Waterloo. Is that correct? As the barriers are just programmed that they are Z1 London terminals, they can't check anything like the routeing guide, right...?

I've tried various combinations and they all work (so far), e.g. a Kenny O to Brum used from King's Cross to Paddington underground.

[1] relatively speaking; compared to the cost of seperate tickets + tube. If doing a day trip, there is a cheaper walk-on fare available.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,969
Location
0035
Any ticket marked with a maltese cross will open the gates at
Code:
Amersham            Farringdon                Queens Park 
Baker Street        Finsbury Park             Richmond 
                            Seven Sisters 
Bank                               
Barking             Highbury & Islington      Stratford 
Blackfriars         Kensington Olympia        Tottenham Hale 
Blackhorse Road     Kentish Town              Tower Hill 
            King's Cross/St Pancras   Upminster 
Cannon Street       Liverpool Street          Vauxhall 
Charing Cross       London Bridge             Victoria 
Ealing Broadway     Marylebone                Walthamstow Ctl 
Edgware Road        Moorgate                  Waterloo 
Elephant & Castle                  West Ham 
Embankment                      
Euston              Old Street                Wimbledon 
Euston Square       Paddington
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top