Tube staff plan five days of strikes

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chris11256

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If LU had proposed even a small pay cut, there still would have been strike action. So after negotiations the result would have been probably no pay cut at all.



But there still would be strike action. If train captains get the same pay as tube drivers, what would be the point? Would drivers even agree to be train captains even without loss of pay?
Surely drivers striking over driverless trains would be playing into LUs hands?

wouldn't it make LU simply speed up the process.
 
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Robertj21a

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Surely drivers striking over driverless trains would be playing into LUs hands?

wouldn't it make LU simply speed up the process.
Probably, but it's likely to happen at some point anyway regardless of union members. People seem to forget that management is paid to manage !

Best to get all the arguments and strikes out of the way in just the one 'upset' so that a more streamlined LU can eventually move forward and join the modern world. In any event, those rather nice vintage buses looked very good and need another airing !!

Robert
 

infobleep

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Last week TFL claimed 9 out of 10 commuters got to work during the strikes. If that really was the case, do they need to run so many tube trains normally? Could some be replaced by buses? Surely buses are cheaper to run than tube trains. Would cutting the number of tube trains also encourage greater use of Boris bikes?

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bicbasher

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I popped into Stratford during the evening peak this evening (Tuesday), when I arrived at the Westfield ticket hall, the ticket office was closed, with customers using the machines.

As I had a LU customer charter revenue voucher to exchange, I went across the footbridge from Westfield to the main ticket hall. Passing the Greater Anglia ticket office, the queue was long. The sign which says buy your Oyster and travelcards here attracted customers, some I assume who have just got off the coach from Stansted Airport. I went into the LU ticket hall and despite having two staff in the ticket office, I was able to walk straight up. A simple case of GA attracting the custom or a lack of promotion for the soon to close LU ticket office?
 

causton

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Passing the Greater Anglia ticket office, the queue was long. The sign which says buy your Oyster and travelcards here attracted customers, some I assume who have just got off the coach from Stansted Airport. I went into the LU ticket hall and despite having two staff in the ticket office, I was able to walk straight up. A simple case of GA attracting the custom or a lack of promotion for the soon to close LU ticket office?
That sign has been there for years and is very cheeky but effective! Wonder how many people using those ticket machines don't go near a Greater Anglia service (not that all TVMs are just for the users of that TOCs services, but...) the ticket machines inside are always empty compared to the GA ones outside!
 

GodAtum

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Last week TFL claimed 9 out of 10 commuters got to work during the strikes. If that really was the case, do they need to run so many tube trains normally? Could some be replaced by buses? Surely buses are cheaper to run than tube trains. Would cutting the number of tube trains also encourage greater use of Boris bikes?

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If you lived on the very last station of a line which was closed (eg Uxbridge) it would be impossible to get into work as there are no direct buses into central London.
 

infobleep

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If you lived on the very last station of a line which was closed (eg Uxbridge) it would be impossible to get into work as there are no direct buses into central London.
Perhaps they made up the 1 in 10 that couldn't get in or at least contributed to it. Trains clearly need to run their case but what about other cases? According to TFL 90% did make it and they must have used something else or even the reduced tube service.

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GodAtum

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Impossible? Are there no buses to any other LU station, NR stations, or other locations where you can change for another bus?
if both the Piccadilly and Metropolitan line were closed i believe there are no NR station nearby? Same with Epping perhaps?
 

Tetchytyke

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GodAtum said:
If you lived on the very last station of a line which was closed (eg Uxbridge) it would be impossible to get into work as there are no direct buses into central London.
It's around 15-20 minutes on the bus from Uxbridge centre to West Drayton.

infobleep said:
Last week TFL claimed 9 out of 10 commuters got to work during the strikes. If that really was the case, do they need to run so many tube trains normally? Could some be replaced by buses? Surely buses are cheaper to run than tube trains. Would cutting the number of tube trains also encourage greater use of Boris bikes?
People got to work, but only by setting off earlier or arriving later than they would normally have done. In the last strike it took me 90 minutes to get from Angel to Highgate; that journey on the tube is about 15-20 minutes.

One single tube train on the Northern Line can carry 650 people, that's the same as ten double decker buses. And, as the people of Clapham and Balham will tell you, each one of those is crush loaded in the morning peak. On a bad day you can be waiting 10-15 minutes just to be able to fit on a train.
 

Mojo

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Met line trains were running from Uxbridge to central London for the majority of the day on both strike days last week.
 

infobleep

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It's around 15-20 minutes on the bus from Uxbridge centre to West Drayton.



People got to work, but only by setting off earlier or arriving later than they would normally have done. In the last strike it took me 90 minutes to get from Angel to Highgate; that journey on the tube is about 15-20 minutes.

One single tube train on the Northern Line can carry 650 people, that's the same as ten double decker buses. And, as the people of Clapham and Balham will tell you, each one of those is crush loaded in the morning peak. On a bad day you can be waiting 10-15 minutes just to be able to fit on a train.
Well TFL from the quotes I read in the Evening Standard, which may selectively quote, TFL only seemed keen on quoting that 9 out 10 made it to work, rather than how long it actually took them compared to normal.

Surprised more didn't work at home. I wouldn't want to. In fact in previous strikes I always found my journey via the tube to be quicker as the train stopped at less stations and wasn't so busy. However I was always going against the major flows. This being Waterloo to Euston in the morning.

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Clip

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Met line trains were running from Uxbridge to central London for the majority of the day on both strike days last week.
And even if they were not its still very easy to get to west drayton or even one of the ruislips for a train in.
 

cjmillsnun

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When you had kids going down 't pit 18 hours a day with no safety precautions for 1p a year, you would have had a point. But there is now enough employment regulation to give reasonable protection for employees.
And where do you think that regulation came from? It came from the Unions lobbying government. The Tories would love to scrap a lot of that as would UKIP!



What I think should be improved is unemployment benefit, so that being made redundant is not so disadvantageous. In more progressive European countries, you get a high proportion of your salary until you find another job, and you get it for a long time. So employees often ask for redundancy as it will often work out well for them if they get a new job in a reasonable amount of time.
OK I have no issue with this. As long as people can prove they are actively seeking work.

Denmark has 'flexicurity', so employers can hire and fire at will, but there is generous unemployment benefit and they get excellent training while unemployed.
I'd rather not have that system
 

Robertj21a

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And where do you think that regulation came from? It came from the Unions lobbying government. The Tories would love to scrap a lot of that as would UKIP!





OK I have no issue with this. As long as people can prove they are actively seeking work.



I'd rather not have that system
It always seems to me that Union members are too distrusting. Although I accept that there are a few poor - or very poor - employers in the UK I really don't see that they make up a significant proportion. We have lots of excellent employers who reward staff fairly but they never get a mention.

Unions tend to be viewed as rather prehistoric in their attitude to anything that might be construed as progress. Although this is generally an unfair reflection on the good work that most of them carry out for their members, it remains the case that Union membership is often seen as something that previous generations needed. People like Bob Crow (RIP) of the RMT tended to highlight to non-union members that these old-fashioned 'aggressive' tactics can still be brought out, at key times, to cause chaos to everyone else. I wonder how the nurses, care workers etc trying to get to work, on much lower wages, truly feel about such aggressive union action.
 

455driver

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It always seems to me that Union members are too distrusting. Although I accept that there are a few poor - or very poor - employers in the UK I really don't see that they make up a significant proportion. We have lots of excellent employers who reward staff fairly but they never get a mention.
Agreed but would all those excellent employers be so wonderful if the unions werent there to give them a nudge every once in a while?

Unions tend to be viewed as rather prehistoric in their attitude to anything that might be construed as progress. Although this is generally an unfair reflection on the good work that most of them carry out for their members, it remains the case that Union membership is often seen as something that previous generations needed. People like Bob Crow (RIP) of the RMT tended to highlight to non-union members that these old-fashioned 'aggressive' tactics can still be brought out, at key times, to cause chaos to everyone else. I wonder how the nurses, care workers etc trying to get to work, on much lower wages, truly feel about such aggressive union action.
Because its always those nasty unions that call for industrial action or strikes, its obviously nothing to do with an intransigent management refusing to be realistic in their expectations or demands is it!
Refering to brother Bob, dod you ever meet the man and have a conversation with him?
I have and he is (sorry was) a very knowledgeable, likeable chap, anybody thinking he is like the person we saw on the television is as far off the mark as it is possible to be, okay he was the gobby leader of the RMT but it was the members that voted for the strikes not brother Bob. Yes he used to get on my nerves with his (almost weekly) threats of strikes but how many of them were acted upon, very few because that was normally enough to get mangement around the table where a realistic aggreement (to all sides) could be sorted out. Dont confuse the television Bob with the real Bob, and yes I was surprised when I met him because I had also formed an (incorrect) opinion about him.
 
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Robertj21a

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Agreed but would all those excellent employers be so wonderful if the unions werent there to give them a nudge every once in a while?



Yes, most employers would still be excellent since their vast number of staff don't have, or ever needed, Unions. Staff trust the management and the management reward the staff accordingly - just how it should work.

Unions are, imho, only able to exert any real muscle in the biggest operations where, all too often, staff feel very distant from a management perceived to be lacking in any real understanding. Small is better, for communication and understanding.

Robert
 

A-driver

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Agreed but would all those excellent employers be so wonderful if the unions werent there to give them a nudge every once in a while?







Yes, most employers would still be excellent since their vast number of staff don't have, or ever needed, Unions. Staff trust the management and the management reward the staff accordingly - just how it should work.



Unions are, imho, only able to exert any real muscle in the biggest operations where, all too often, staff feel very distant from a management perceived to be lacking in any real understanding. Small is better, for communication and understanding.



Robert

Yes, but TOCs generally don't have good employee relations and are huge companies where staff are kept very distant from management. That is why the rail unions are so important.
 

455driver

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Yes, most employers would still be excellent since their vast number of staff don't have, or ever needed, Unions. Staff trust the management and the management reward the staff accordingly - just how it should work.
You are very trusting arent you! :lol:

Unions are, imho, only able to exert any real muscle in the biggest operations where, all too often, staff feel very distant from a management perceived to be lacking in any real understanding.
Management are distant from the staff in the bigger organisations, most of them have never done the job of the people they are in charge of and simply dont understand the issues involved, that is where the problems start!

Small is better, for communication and understanding.
That we do agree on, but for most firms where the union calls are made are much bigger firms.
 

Robertj21a

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You are very trusting arent you! :lol:


Yes, my own experience, and those of most of my friends, is that management will be fair and staff will be rewarded appropriately - but staff seem to forget that mangers are there to manage the operation.


Management are distant from the staff in the bigger organisations, most of them have never done the job of the people they are in charge of and simply dont understand the issues involved, that is where the problems start!


By all means encourage better communication 'up the line' - but that in itself doesn't require a Union to be brought in, just some committed, and respected, staff.


That we do agree on, but for most firms where the union calls are made are much bigger firms.
In my/friends experience, if you don't like the way in which you are managed, you leave and get a job elsewhere - I appreciate that this is not always as easy as it sounds but it's you who has that power to leave. Plenty of employees have, in recent years, decided to opt out and set up their own small businesses.

Robert
 

A-driver

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In my/friends experience, if you don't like the way in which you are managed, you leave and get a job elsewhere - I appreciate that this is not always as easy as it sounds but it's you who has that power to leave. Plenty of employees have, in recent years, decided to opt out and set up their own small businesses.



Robert

Good for them. But I enjoy my job and see no reason why I shouldn't have the right and the backing of a union to fight protect the good pay and conditions we have and to continually strive for an even better deal. It's not greed, it's infact no different to any business leader striving to better their lot.
 

Robertj21a

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Good for them. But I enjoy my job and see no reason why I shouldn't have the right and the backing of a union to fight protect the good pay and conditions we have and to continually strive for an even better deal. It's not greed, it's infact no different to any business leader striving to better their lot.

Who suggested that you didn't have that right ?

Your choice is to belong to a Union - fine. Many other employees see no need.

Robert
 

radamfi

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I'd rather not have that system
Why don't you like Denmark's Flexicurity? It seems a fair balance between flexibility for employers (meaning there is less risk to taking on new staff, which reduced unemployment) and looking after unemployed people well.
 

Tom B

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Whilst I have only been in full time employment for 3/4 years I have seen the good that unions can do. I have seen a HR department who will "try it on" with anyone, breaking their own rules (before we even get to good practice etc). When an individual challenges them, and asks for a meeting to clarify the matter with a union rep, it is swept under the carpet. Even if, say, 50% of staff fight it, they have got their way with the other 50%.

Conversely I have been in situations where the union has failed to represent its members. Mainly in this case due to an individual rep or branch chair having their own priorities and ignoring the will of the members. Although a (non railway) union was a great fan of wanting to bring us into its political campaigns and disputes, but not so keen on dealing with the concerns that we had. This, however, was resolved by a mass resignation from that union and joining another.
 

Robertj21a

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Whilst I have only been in full time employment for 3/4 years I have seen the good that unions can do. I have seen a HR department who will "try it on" with anyone, breaking their own rules (before we even get to good practice etc). When an individual challenges them, and asks for a meeting to clarify the matter with a union rep, it is swept under the carpet. Even if, say, 50% of staff fight it, they have got their way with the other 50%.

Conversely I have been in situations where the union has failed to represent its members. Mainly in this case due to an individual rep or branch chair having their own priorities and ignoring the will of the members. Although a (non railway) union was a great fan of wanting to bring us into its political campaigns and disputes, but not so keen on dealing with the concerns that we had. This, however, was resolved by a mass resignation from that union and joining another.

Quite right. You can find good and bad experiences everywhere (and too often), just remember that it's your life and you should make decisions for yourself, not as part of a flock of sheep.

Robert
 

90sWereBetter

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And there might be ANOTHER strike this weekend. :|

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tube-strike-may-2014-unite-workers-in-fresh-strike-threat-for-bank-holiday-weekend-9397685.html

With two huge concerts in Finsbury Park (Arctic Monkeys), three big football matches at Wembley (play-off finals), and a comic convention in East London, it's almost as if Unite want to be as unpopular as possible. I understand why they would want to strike, but can't they go on strike next weekend or something, if they must have one? <(

(I'm in London on Saturday, so I kinda need this strike to not go ahead, I want to clear some more of the Underground map :p )
 
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