Tube to change 'ladies and gentlemen' announcements

[jon0844]

What if their flair causes offence?

 

[Busaholic]

I'm not sure flair is any more welcome than a flare would be in this matter.

 

[bluegoblin7]

What if their flair causes offence?

Then, obviously, that should be reported and will be followed up accordingly.

You'll find the majority of staff will just drop the greeting entirely, or replace it with Good morning/afternoon/evening etc.

 

[Deerfold]

This is so stupid IMO. “Hello everyone” is horribly informal. Definitely I think they should stick to “Ladies and Gentlemen” without a doubt.

And stuff those it excludes? Hello everyone isn't the only possible alternative.

 

[shredder1]

Who would be excluded from ladies and gentlemen?

 

[Lrd]

Who would be excluded from ladies and gentlemen?

People who don't "identify" as a man or woman.

 

[RJ]

Not really Underground but on the rail replacement buses I drive on LU/TfL services, I've stopped using "Ladies and gentlemen" in announcements and replaced it with neutral greetings.

It's something that makes no difference to those being addressed (the phrase excludes many who are not "cisgender"), but stops others being snubbed.

 

[shredder1]

Good Morning Neutral`s, erm nope it doesnt work for me!

 

[Domh245]

Good Morning Neutral`s, erm nope it doesnt work for me!

What's wrong with "Good Morning" then?

 

[shredder1]

What's wrong with "Good Morning" then?

Yep, that would work

 

[bluegoblin7]

Yep, that would work

So, erm, exactly what's being suggested then. Stop trying to find offence (this also applies to @Lrd - considering you're staff I'd suggest you're very careful with what you say on a public forum...) in something that has nothing to do with you. It's nothing to do with aliens or toasters or trees or any other ridiculousness.

If this had never made the press I guarantee you wouldn't notice. If you don't get it, don't comment. Have some respect for others.

 

[shredder1]

So, erm, exactly what's being suggested then. Stop trying to find offence (this also applies to @Lrd - considering you're staff I'd suggest you're very careful with what you say on a public forum...) in something that has nothing to do with you. It's nothing to do with aliens or toasters or trees or any other ridiculousness.

If this had never made the press I guarantee you wouldn't notice. If you don't get it, don't comment. Have some respect for others.

I don`t see how anyone can take offence at good morning , but still what do I know! Merry Christmas Mr Goblin

 

[bramling]

I don`t see how anyone can take offence at good morning , but still what do I know! Merry Christmas Mr Goblin

What makes me cringe slightly is we have been round various greetings over the last decade or two - all invented by various people in strategy departments as being the touchy-feely wording of the day. Now the revolving door has turned full-circle and we're, sort of, back to where we started, except no one really knows where they stand.

I'm afraid I still prefer Ladies & Gentlemen, but failing that let's just have a chime of some sort. Surely no one can find *that* offensive?

 

[Temple Meads]

So, erm, exactly what's being suggested then. Stop trying to find offence (this also applies to @Lrd - considering you're staff I'd suggest you're very careful with what you say on a public forum...) in something that has nothing to do with you. It's nothing to do with aliens or toasters or trees or any other ridiculousness.

If this had never made the press I guarantee you wouldn't notice. If you don't get it, don't comment. Have some respect for others.

+ 1, excellent post!

 

[Class465fan]

So, erm, exactly what's being suggested then. Stop trying to find offence (this also applies to @Lrd - considering you're staff I'd suggest you're very careful with what you say on a public forum...) in something that has nothing to do with you. It's nothing to do with aliens or toasters or trees or any other ridiculousness.

If this had never made the press I guarantee you wouldn't notice. If you don't get it, don't comment. Have some respect for others.

It appears that you take jokes way too seriously.

 

[Lrd]

So, erm, exactly what's being suggested then. Stop trying to find offence (this also applies to @Lrd - considering you're staff I'd suggest you're very careful with what you say on a public forum...) in something that has nothing to do with you. It's nothing to do with aliens or toasters or trees or any other ridiculousness.

If this had never made the press I guarantee you wouldn't notice. If you don't get it, don't comment. Have some respect for others.

I'm not against changing how we say things but I've no idea why it's happening, I know it's to do with the whole gender fluid/neutral thing but I don't know what that means and no one has explained to us what it means or why we're doing it. I've seen no notices or been told to stop saying "Ladies and gentlemen" up until the upcoming rule book changes that come into force from January, except what has been said in the press/social media.

I've been doing my best to be neutral but the odd ladies and gents still creeps in.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Ladies and Gentlemen isn’t offensive but if they are that worried about being gender neutral good morning is perfectly fine! Hello everyone is just horribly unprofessional IMO.

 

[Domh245]

Ladies and Gentlemen isn’t offensive but if they are that worried about being gender neutral good morning is perfectly fine! Hello everyone is just horribly unprofessional IMO.

It may not be offensive to you, but to anyone who doesn't identify as either male or female, it is exclusive and can well be seen as offensive in that scenario...

 

[Lrd]

Ladies and Gentlemen isn’t offensive but if they are that worried about being gender neutral good morning is perfectly fine! Hello everyone is just horribly unprofessional IMO.

How is it "unprofessional"? It's just different to what we're used to

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Well maybe unprofessional is the wrong word. Informal then.

 

[shredder1]

It may not be offensive to you, but to anyone who doesn't identify as either male or female, it is exclusive and can well be seen as offensive in that scenario...

Excuse my ignorance, or maybe I`m missing something here, but surely we are either male or female ???

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Excuse my ignorance, or maybe I`m missing something here, but surely we are either male or female ???

I thought that as well, but I apparently some people don’t like to have “labels” ???

 

[shredder1]

I thought that as well, but I apparently some people don’t like to have “labels” ???

Well like it or not labelling is how we understand the world around us

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Well like it or not labelling is how we understand the world around us

You are saying all of the things I want to say but am too scared of being slated for

 

[Domh245]

Excuse my ignorance, or maybe I`m missing something here, but surely we are either male or female ???

That's a fair point, but you are conflating Gender and Biological Sex. Biological Sex (as far as Humans are concerned) is if you've got XY chromosomes or XX chromosomes. Gender was until relatively recently similarly black and white, but has since become less so. Transgenderism is when a person doesn't identify as the sex that they were born as, and includes Genderqueer (or non-binary) people, who don't identify as either wholly male or female. You've then also got the likes of Third Gender ("Other") for those who don't identify as either male or female but as something else (giving rise to some of the 'jokes' about identifying as an attack helicopter and so on)

Needless to say, it is fairly complicated and can be a bit of a thorny matter.

 

[shredder1]

That's a fair point, but you are conflating Gender and Biological Sex. Biological Sex (as far as Humans are concerned) is if you've got XY chromosomes or XX chromosomes. Gender was until relatively recently similarly black and white, but has since become less so. Transgenderism is when a person doesn't identify as the sex that they were born as, and includes Genderqueer (or non-binary) people, who don't identify as either wholly male or female. You've then also got the likes of Third Gender ("Other") for those who don't identify as either male or female but as something else (giving rise to some of the 'jokes' about identifying as an attack helicopter and so on)

Needless to say, it is fairly complicated and can be a bit of a thorny matter.

Many thanks for the explanation, it must be terrible for someone who has issues of that kind, is it biological or a mental condition?

 

[EM2]

That's a fair point, but you are conflating Gender and Biological Sex. Biological Sex (as far as Humans are concerned) is if you've got XY chromosomes or XX chromosomes. Gender was until relatively recently similarly black and white, but has since become less so. Transgenderism is when a person doesn't identify as the sex that they were born as, and includes Genderqueer (or non-binary) people, who don't identify as either wholly male or female. You've then also got the likes of Third Gender ("Other") for those who don't identify as either male or female but as something else (giving rise to some of the 'jokes' about identifying as an attack helicopter and so on)

Needless to say, it is fairly complicated and can be a bit of a thorny matter.

The best way I've heard it described recently is that sex is what's between your legs, gender is what's between your ears.
My answer to the 'attack helicopter' people is that if you want to identify as an attack helicopter, then great, but you then have to accept that society will expect you to act like an attack helicopter, to drink avgas, take off vertically, move at 200mph and so on....

 

[sheff1]

What's wrong with "Good Morning" then?

It might offend someone who was having a bad morning.

 

[rmt4ever]

Agree on the former, absolutely not on the matter.

I'm not going to get embroiled in a conversation about this because it's wearing me out enough on the internal Yammer, but this change is about far more than just gender. It makes the tube accessible to a whole host of people who find ladies and gentlemen archaic and uncomfortable, whilst still not excluding anybody. Removing this announcement is *more* inclusive than the current offing.

It is not being prescribed a replacement - the "Hello everyone" was invented by the media - and staff are encouraged to add their own, inclusive, flair when making PAs.

Inclusivity is very much the flavour of the day.

What a load of old rubbish...

I hope "Ladies & Gents" is around for years to come....

 

[AnonymousUser1]

That's a fair point, but you are conflating Gender and Biological Sex. Biological Sex (as far as Humans are concerned) is if you've got XY chromosomes or XX chromosomes. Gender was until relatively recently similarly black and white, but has since become less so. Transgenderism is when a person doesn't identify as the sex that they were born as, and includes Genderqueer (or non-binary) people, who don't identify as either wholly male or female. You've then also got the likes of Third Gender ("Other") for those who don't identify as either male or female but as something else (giving rise to some of the 'jokes' about identifying as an attack helicopter and so on)

Needless to say, it is fairly complicated and can be a bit of a thorny matter.

Your attempt to explain it is fairly poor from a physical sex point of view , karotypes are no the sole determinant of physical sex , care to discuss SRY gene function ? CAIS ? mosaicism and chimeras ?

There is no such word as 'transgenderism' , you make a reasonable fist at pointing out that there are cisgender identities ( Gender identity is congruent with apparent physical sex) , binary transgender identities ( where someone's gender identity is 'opposite' to the apparent physical sex - i.e. the classical transgender presentation) , none binary identities and gender fluid / genderqueer. identities

Note i say 'apparent physical sex' as people generally aren't karotyped or genome mapped unless there is some reason to do so ... and intersex people with ambiguous genitalia are a subset of intersex people . True prevalence of intersex conditions is unknown , however it is fairly widely felt that the figures for the number peopel who are trans or people who are intersex ( and some peopel fall into both ) are underestimates