Tube Train conditions on he Harrogate Line

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by David Dunning, 23 Nov 2011.

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  1. David Dunning

    David Dunning Member

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    Tuesday 22/11/11 Leeds station 1529 Leeds to Poppleton .

    Turned up at Platform 5c at Leeds to find a 2 car pacer doing an impression of a circle line tube train at rush hour. Service was missing another 2 coaches and there was a load of people trying to get on . Have to say that the Northern guard/conductor really did a good job keeping his cool. He remained polite and calm in the face of a frustrated crowd of people who couldn't get on. I did manage to squeeze in after he got people inside to breathe in a bit and normal service was resumed after Horsforth.
    Quite a few regulars to places like Cattal and Poppleton were saying these peak hour services should skip Horsforth and run fast to Weeton. It did seem a bit hard on those left behind for destinations beyond Knaresboro as they had to wait an hour, where people for stations to Horsforth had another train in fifteen minutes. Anyway Mr Guard if your on here ... well done mate , you're a credit to Northern.
     
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  3. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    It is a pleasure to read of commendations for rail staff such as this. He appears to have shown total professionalism in the face of a very difficult situation.
     
  4. AndrewP

    AndrewP Member

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    The guards on the Harrogate line are excellent.

    The attitude of this one does not surprise me at all.
     
  5. 175001

    175001 Member

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    Sadly its a daily occurance that we all as either staff or passengers have to face, especially up here in the North!

    But as Paul said, nice to hear good words about my fellow Northern guard, the majority understand that we don't want it like this either, but sadly the minority will take it out on us.

    Glad you got home anyway!
     
  6. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Tube trains eh? That gives me an idea...
     
  7. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    Electrify the Harrogate Line and shove some nice 3 car EMUs on it with through gangways to be doubled up in peak hours?
     
  8. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    If the 332s are ever displaced from Heathrow Express (Revised Crossrail perhaps?), then I'd want to see them moved to Neville Hill to be maintained alongside the 333s: Replacing the 321s and 322s in Yorkshire, and still leaving enough units available to work an electrified Harrogate Circle. :D
     
  9. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    We can but dream....
    That is what i would do too but i dont think harrogate council lke the idea of OHLE
     
  10. IanXC

    IanXC Emeritus Moderator

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    I'm not sure they'll have much choice in the matter when the time comes!

     
  11. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    well this is what i do hope for, not the underground stock they currently want to put in use on the line.....
     
  12. marks87

    marks87 Established Member

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    The thing is, is there anything wrong in principle with stock that's fitted out like a Tube train, in the same way as LO 378s? Minimal seating, but maximum capacity.
     
  13. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    Asside from it only being appropriate for services within the innercity of less than 20mins?
     
  14. IanXC

    IanXC Emeritus Moderator

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    Maybe ok for the part of the route which has high frequency, eg as far as the proposed turnback at Horsforth, but much further than that and it really does warrant something fitted out as 2+2.
     
  15. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    I don't see anything wrong with 2+2 with large vestibule areas with grab handles, ie. loose a row of seats either side and add grab handles galore.
     
  16. 43167

    43167 Established Member

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    Shame theres not a 1543 Leeds-Horsforth, like there is at 1643 & 1743, of which the later goes to Knaresborough.
     
  17. Anvil1984

    Anvil1984 Established Member

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    1529 is booked 1 x 150 and has been since May timetable change so its not missing 2 coaches but short formed none of the less.

    It used to be 142 + 150 then detaching with the 150 working back from York at 1654 and the 142 forming the 1718. BUT now it the 150 should still still work 1529 to York and 1658 return with the 142 coming in from Hull and shunting in the platform 8 in time to work the latter service

    The 1629 is the one thats usually short formed from 2 x 142 with usually only 1 showing

    Hope thhis makes sense
     
  18. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Yes, that would be far to sensible. We can but dream !
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Even on heavily used urban lines such a layout is an unfortunate and uncomfortable (albeit necessary) compromise. It should be avoided everywhere else - particularly relatively long routes such as Harrogate.
     
  19. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Makes sense to me, always interesting to see what the stock allocation should be.

    We get a few comments on here about how Leeds gets the best deal from Northern, but the reality is that its a very busy station and a two coach Pacer is going to struggle. But, like with the rest of Northern there's not the spare stock - not the Guard's fault of course, good to see him doing his best in the circumstances (and good to see the OP praise him too).

    The Harrogate line would be perfect for electrification - completely self contained, electrified at both ends, wealthy commuter market to tap in to (I'm sure there's plenty suppressed demand on that route - as someone who used to use it daily to commute in Leeds there were plenty times when people couldn't physically fit on the trains). Its frustrating that the Harrogate line isn't even on the agenda for electrification.
     
  20. caliwag

    caliwag Member

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    15.29 Leeds to Harrogate on a Tuesday...hardly peek, who are these part-timers?
     
  21. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    Deleted.
     
  22. HSTEd

    HSTEd Established Member

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    Well there was always that low cost electrification support thing that "TramPower" made for 90mph running, as I understand it it can be rigged for 25kV and if you lift bits of that DfT study on low cost electrification about using buried telephone poles as supports you have bargain basement project.
    Especially if you fit autotransformers to minimise signalling work, you could even convert the Harrogate-London train to electric traction and get the last diesel EC diagram out of Leeds.
     
  23. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    You make a very good point here when referring to the longer routes.
     
  24. scarby

    scarby Member

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    People who work part-time ;)

    People who start work early

    People whose day off is on a Tuesday

    Students

    Schoolkids

    Pensioners

    People out of work

    People on holiday
     
  25. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    The same people who mean that if I get the 0845 bus into Bolton it's half full, but the 0945 bus on the same route is standing room only?

    The same goes for the 0908 vs 1008 services off Bolton Rail.
     
  26. dickdarlington

    dickdarlington Member

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    How difficult would it be (and when I say difficult I guess I mean expensive) for Northern to hire some carriages which are in storage somewhere and shove an engine on the front of them and use them on either some of the commuter routes out of Leeds/Manc/Liv in the rush, freeing up the pacers to lengthen other services.

    I know it's been done a death, but Harrogate is a prime candidate for this. So would the marple service out of Piccadilly IMO (I can't comment on many others as I've not had a lot of experience of commuting out of the Yorkshire/Lancashire cities).
     
  27. Anvil1984

    Anvil1984 Established Member

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    I wouldnt say Harrogate line due to dwell times and acceleration, but put LCHS back Leeds - Carlisles definately, York - Blackpool (aiming longer distance diagrams) and some maybe on West side couldnt name any as not over there much
     
  28. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    Loco hauled seems to have worked well on Manchester to Blackpool services over the years, up until quite recently really. And with the 180s gone from the route at the start of next month I'd say that it'd be a pretty good candidate for a capacity boost in the form of a couple of loco hauled formations.
     
  29. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    MIA - Liverpool L St would be a reasonable candidate, but would need a DBSO or DVT...

    Assuming a formation like... 57 + Mk3 + Mk3 + Mk3 + Mk3 + DBSO/DVT

    Could also add in...

    Leeds - Carlisle

    Or if it where 20 + nMk3 + 20

    Bridlington - Sheffeild (Limited Stop)
    Liverpool - MIA
    York - Blackpool

    Or with other TOCs

    Liverpool - Norwich (But with a 57)

    Dare I say it...

    Euston - Crewe (90 + nMk3 + DVT)
    Euston - Northampton crowdbusters (Same formaton)
     
  30. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    If it weren't for the reversal at Bradford I'd agree with you about the York - Blackpool route.

    The old Arriva Trains Northern arrangement where the 37s used to do a peak Knaresborough - Leeds, a daytime Leeds - Carlisle return and an evening return to Knaresborough worked fairly well, but (as you say) you'd need to skip a few stops to make the most of the locos.
     
  31. mappman1000

    mappman1000 Member

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    Its worked well with NXEA in Norfolk, apart from when 47841 has been rostered :lol:
     
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