Tubelines

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tom1649

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With the collapse of the PPP, can anyone explain why Tubelines continues as a separate TfL subsidiary and has not been reintegrated into LUL like Metronet?

Would it not be more efficient and cost effective to have all LUL infrastructure and maintenance under the same company and management?
 
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DavyCrocket

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They wanted to keep Tube Lines Limited separate from LUL which Metronet has come back into, now known as Asset Performance Directorate.
What people were told at the time was do they could find which was the most efficient way of doing it.
Presumably they still don't know! However TLL staff do attend LUL staff engagement events - so they want them in the house sometimes!
 

Daniel

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It is my personal opinion that both TL and MN coming in house would be seen as a total failure of PPP. As everything 'went down' when Gordon Brown was in power it would have looked bad. So we have what we have.
 

1018509

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I don't think TfL want to integrate Tube Lines into TfL because that would mean a lot of money in Tube Lines employees having to be absorbed into the TfL pension scheme. I know, I am an ex Tube Lines employee luckily enough to have retained my TfL pension and now retired.

The TfL pension is a final salary scheme and very, very good. The Tube Lines scheme is a money purchase scheme and therefore by its nature inferior by a long way.

I think the Metronet absorbtion made TfL once bitten twice shy
 

Mutant Lemming

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I don't think TfL want to integrate Tube Lines into TfL because that would mean a lot of money in Tube Lines employees having to be absorbed into the TfL pension scheme. I know, I am an ex Tube Lines employee luckily enough to have retained my TfL pension and now retired.

The TfL pension is a final salary scheme and very, very good. The Tube Lines scheme is a money purchase scheme and therefore by its nature inferior by a long way.

I think the Metronet absorbtion made TfL once bitten twice shy
It isn't just that but also free staff passes and other benefits which the more recent Tubelines staff don't get. Along with the duplication of roles (like HR etc) which would result in more expensive TfL redundancy packages. It is basically down to cost - absorbing Tubelines in to TfL would be a rather expensive buisness as opposed to leaving it as an 'arms length' company.
 

1018509

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It isn't just that but also free staff passes and other benefits which the more recent Tubelines staff don't get. Along with the duplication of roles (like HR etc) which would result in more expensive TfL redundancy packages. It is basically down to cost - absorbing Tubelines in to TfL would be a rather expensive buisness as opposed to leaving it as an 'arms length' company.
This is exactly right and one of the many things that the Unions don't like and I don't blame them.

It's short sighted management. In the long view a divided work force cannot be a happy work force and is less productive because of this.

I know that when I took my redundancy from Tube Lines, after TfL had bought the company, they couldn't wait to get rid of long serving dinosaurs like me. When people like me had accepted the generous (for my age group) redundancy packages offered, the shift patterns and working practices were changed almost overnight.
 

tom1649

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I'm of the opinion that things work better as one big "family". Once you start privatising and outsourcing it is very difficult to get these things back again.

I have seen staff who were once "in house" and have been put out to tender. They are often made to feel like outsiders by they organisation to which they once belonged but now work indirectly for.

As a Tubelines worker would you feel any loyalty to LUL without the various benefits that their staff receive? Do Tubelines workers feel like outsiders who feel a subsequent lack of camaraderie with their former LUL colleagues? There is the argument that providing benefits such as free staff travel would help produce a happier and therefore more productive workforce. Or is this seen as an outdated concept?
 

DavyCrocket

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Tube Lines staff will be getting TfL staff passes (and I believe be allowed to get 75% discount on NR yearly seasons too). Pension discussions remain ongoing.

As to relationships - I've always treated them as part of the same family. Though when PPP was in full flow it could get a bit interesting as money was at stake - though most employees were Pre PPP and didn't want it! Some Ops staff referred to MRSSL MRBCV and TLL staff as just contractors which they found demoralising.
 

Deerfold

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Tube Lines staff will be getting TfL staff passes (and I believe be allowed to get 75% discount on NR yearly seasons too). Pension discussions remain ongoing.
Just to clarify, with most TOCs it's not a 75% discount but a 75% refund - the difference is important as you then pay tax and NI on that 75%, making it effectively worth about 50% for a basic-rate taxpayer, and less for a higher-rate taxpayer.
 
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