Tunnel oddities at White City

GE066

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Hi, I was wondering if anyone here might have more information on the oddities at White City. I've seen a photograph somewhere that showed a blocked off tunnel on the Westbound line, near where it emerges at White City. There's also what looks like an old curved platform. I know the old Wood Lane platform was curved, but the Westbound line was built in 1947 further north to my limited knowledge.

I'm curious about where the tunnel that's blocked off went and fitted into the system. Also why the wide area inside the curve.

I've drawn a crude layout in MS Paint if it helps.

This isn't in relation to the old Wood Lane platform that sits on the access road to the old depot at White City, and is blocked off.

Thankswhitecity.jpg
 
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swt_passenger

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Have you seen this set of web pages? It attempts to cover the history and might answer your question:
AIUI the original depot was at street level, so there must have been ramps up from the original passenger loop, on the inside of the loop.

Anyway, I hope it might help, and if you get right to the end there are links to a few other descriptions and photo sites.
This sketch seems to explain the complexity prior to the rebuild to put the depot underground:
 
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GE066

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Have you seen this set of web pages? It attempts to cover the history and might answer your question:
AIUI the original depot was at street level, so there must have been ramps up from the original passenger loop, on the inside of the loop.

Anyway, I hope it might help, and if you get right to the end there are links to a few other descriptions and photo sites.
This sketch seems to explain the complexity prior to the rebuild to put the depot underground:
I have, and Dstock's site recommendation. But if you look at the common layout picture, you can see that the 1947 built Westbound tunnel, doesn't touch the previous area that was the Wood Lane line/depot. The old Depot line is separate to the 1947 Westbound line. This is where the moveable platform would have been. Not on the 1947 westbound line.
 

swt_passenger

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I have, and Dstock's site recommendation. But if you look at the common layout picture, you can see that the 1947 built Westbound tunnel, doesn't touch the previous area that was the Wood Lane line/depot. The old Depot line is separate to the 1947 Westbound line. This is where the moveable platform would have been. Not on the 1947 westbound line.
Yes, I think the mention of the movable platform is pretty much ancient history in the context of your question.
 

GE066

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The map on that sites appears to be from around 1908. It's missing platforms 3 & 4 for a start. All the maps i've seen, show the Westbound tunnel being North of the all the old wood lane station/depot bits and pieces. Hence why it's a little mystery i was trying to solve with help from here...
 

swt_passenger

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The map on that sites appears to be from around 1908. It's missing platforms 3 & 4 for a start. All the maps i've seen, show the Westbound tunnel being North of the all the old wood lane station/depot bits and pieces. Hence why it's a little mystery i was trying to solve with help from here...
The web article by Clive Feather does refer to a depot exit line joining the westbound line “in tunnel”. Perhaps there was a 1947 link into tubeprune’s red line that isn’t shown on the diagram. Clive‘s photo 37 down the list with text alongside “Here we see the mouth of the depot exit track, leading to the westbound platform at White City etc…”.

I just checked Joe Brown’s London railway atlas and it does in fact show a junction for a depot exit track into the westbound line about where your original sketch has one.
 
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GE066

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I'd not heard of that book, so after finding it on ebay for a fiver, i've ordered it. Cheers
 

rebmcr

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Also why the wide area inside the curve.
That's the easy bit. The White City area used to be the terminus of the Central London Railway, and the tracks looping widely around the depot were used as a balloon loop to turn trains around for the return journey.
 

kwrail

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Have a look at Geoff Marshalls's 'Secrets of the Central Line'. The key bit is from 3m 20s onwards. Some nice diagrams and pictures which will answer your question.

 

swt_passenger

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I'd not heard of that book, so after finding it on ebay for a fiver, i've ordered it. Cheers
Here’s a YouTube staff training video that shows the routes in and out of the old depot, including via a junction directly onto the westbound running line. The route is from about 7m 42s, the junction appears at 9m 30s, and it is immediately after passing under the road in the photo I mentioned in post #8. You’ll see there’s a sand drag on the left just at the junction. Could that be the location you’re now seeing a blank wall, if looking southwards from the running tunnel?

 
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swt_passenger

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That's the easy bit. The White City area used to be the terminus of the Central London Railway, and the tracks looping widely around the depot were used as a balloon loop to turn trains around for the return journey.
I think the question was specifically about the reason for the righthand black hatched section in the sketch in post #1, rather than the entire balloon loop.
 

GE066

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The following file shows a series of diagrams that the depict the alterations carried ou in the Wood Lane/White City area when Wood Lane closed and White City opened.

Wood Lane / White City alterations 1947/48/49. (PDF)
Thanks for that. I believe that solves the issue of the blocked tunnel in the Westbound. It's here.WL CU2.jpg

You can also see it in the Joe Brown London Railway book, arrived today from ebay. Thanks swt passanger for the tipoff.WL CU.jpg

Just leaves the mystery of the wide area inside the curve just past the blocked branch. Also why it's not an enclosed tube tunnel. I'm guessing it was something to do with the engineering of the whole thing. Here's a pic.
wlsml.jpg

Here’s a YouTube staff training video that shows the routes in and out of the old depot, including via a junction directly onto the westbound running line. The route is from about 7m 42s, the junction appears at 9m 30s, and it is immediately after passing under the road in the photo I mentioned in post #8. You’ll see there’s a sand drag on the left just at the junction. Could that be the location you’re now seeing a blank wall, if looking southwards from the running tunnel?

This opens up another mystery, there's a junction just inside the tunnel, as the white balance alters to the dark, you can see a line going off to the left of the train (9'32"). This isn't on any maps, nor is it there any more. There doesn't appear anywhere for it to go when you see the train approaching from outside the tunnel.

Unless the train in the video is going down to point GA and G8 on the pdf diagram 1947-49. In which case it would be the westbound line coming across from the left. Which would make the tunnel the train is coming down the one that is now blocked off.

I think Inspector Clouseau would be proud of me!
 
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swt_passenger

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I’m guessing to an extent, but before they buried the entire 1947 westbound line in the new covered way, it must still have been running in a direction taking it gradually away from its original path through towards the old platform 4. That would presumably be the area shown in this photograph from the abandoned stations site:
73165206-2DF7-4AD4-BA16-93F1323FC097.jpeg
What we probably need is an aerial view of that area just before the Whits City area redevelopment. Now the inner support wall for the new covered way roof (and everything above it) would need to have much better foundations, and the obvious working method would be to build the new walls far enough away from the existing cutting to allow trains to keep running, probably within some sort of temporary safety structure. So building it outside that apparent concrete slab would be the low risk option, even if it meant it was slightly wider than needed.

Theres an online map showing London Underground property assets and zones of influence here:
I’ve taken a screen shot of what is clearly a widening of the present covered way here, see how after the covered way area branches southwards, (that must be the old depot westbound exit position), the east part is widening out?

FCF4E2A4-F3F6-454B-B95D-65F38F6EDB13.jpeg

This opens up another mystery, there's a junction just inside the tunnel, as the white balance alters to the dark, you can see a line going off to the left of the train (9'32"). This isn't on any maps, nor is it there any more. There doesn't appear anywhere for it to go when you see the train approaching from outside the tunnel.

Unless the train in the video is going down to point GA and G8 on the pdf diagram 1947-49. In which case it would be the westbound line coming across from the left. Which would make the tunnel the train is coming down the one that is now blocked off.

I think Inspector Clouseau would be proud of me!
I think what you‘re thinking of as a branch is just catch points and a sand drag to trap a train running away downhill from the depot exit line. Two side by side permanent red lights stood within the track bed. It’s a common safety feature - just unusual to see one underground. You can see the points are both numbered 30 in the final 1949 diagram, so act together. Distances aren’t that easy to assess in the darkness of the video, but I think the points will be much closer together than the diagram implies, given it isn’t to scale. I suspect the concrete wall they lead to behind the stop lights is possibly in line with the older Platform 4 route, but I expect it’s all buried now.

PS I had a search through the online planning applications, on Hammersmith and Fulham’s website, but unfortunately although the big projects from the time the depot was rebuilt are identifiable in the index, they don’t have any plan drawings accessible...
 
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