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TVM failed to print tickets whose responsibility?

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njr001

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With reference to a recent topic in the disputes & Prosecutions section. Today I tried to collect some advance tickets booked online via GWR's website at Marylebone Station. Only the return half tickets were printed no outbound or collection receipt. I tried recalling the booking again by inserting the credit card used online but no booking was found.

I luckily found a member of Chiltern staff on the concourse who was able to summon a colleague who opened the machine to check for stuck tickets. On opening the machine no tickets were found, it was suggested it may be a software fault as I was able to produce full details of the booking on my phone. They suggested that I contact GWR. I called GWR and after having been on hold for about 15 minutes spoke to web support who after consulting a colleague suggested I go to Paddington who should be able to sort the issue.

I then travelled to Paddington later in the afternoon who were able to print the missing tickets. This episode wasted a considerable amount of time this afternoon, am I just unlucky or is this a fairly common occurrence?
 
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father_jack

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With reference to a recent topic in the disputes & Prosecutions section. Today I tried to collect some advance tickets booked online via GWR's website at Marylebone Station. Only the return half tickets were printed no outbound or collection receipt. I tried recalling the booking again by inserting the credit card used online but no booking was found.

I luckily found a member of Chiltern staff on the concourse who was able to summon a colleague who opened the machine to check for stuck tickets. On opening the machine no tickets were found, it was suggested it may be a software fault as I was able to produce full details of the booking on my phone. They suggested that I contact GWR. I called GWR and after having been on hold for about 15 minutes spoke to web support who after consulting a colleague suggested I go to Paddington who should be able to sort the issue.

I then travelled to Paddington later in the afternoon who were able to print the missing tickets. This episode wasted a considerable amount of time this afternoon, am I just unlucky or is this a fairly common occurrence?
If there is a print failure (or allegation of) the first thing that should be done is that the ticket office TIS should be checked using the TOD reference. If it says "print failure occured" the ticket office TIS will give the opportunity to print the remainder, sometimes even reprinting the already printed ones...... (Great fun when you now have say two FORs PNZ-INV !!!) What happened at Paddington was as described above.

However with all respect to the OP most of the time they are correctly printed and have been picked up errantly by the next passenger and are long gone (or hopefully handed in to the sales window), are on the top of the ticket machine in the pigeon poo, in the timetable rack, in with the Metros or still in the machine !!!!!!!!!
 

AlterEgo

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Where a fault is confirmed with a machine, it's usually the responsibility of the machine owning TOC to print your tickets.

The booking office can definitely reprint tickets (as you saw at PAD), sometimes it takes a phone call - but it can be done. Poor show Marylebone, though credit given for seamless buck-passing.

I'm sorry to say that Chiltern well and truly wasted your time.
 

N228PF

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If there is a print failure (or allegation of) the first thing that should be done is that the ticket office TIS should be checked using the TOD reference. If it says "print failure occured" the ticket office TIS will give the opportunity to print the remainder, sometimes even reprinting the already printed ones...... (Great fun when you now have say two FORs PNZ-INV !!!) What happened at Paddington was as described above.

However with all respect to the OP most of the time they are correctly printed and have been picked up errantly by the next passenger and are long gone (or hopefully handed in to the sales window), are on the top of the ticket machine in the pigeon poo, in the timetable rack, in with the Metros or still in the machine !!!!!!!!!

I'd say its really easy to not grab all your tickets. I booked a day trip once to Liverpool via York, which coincidentally was the best path home. For the two of us 11 pieces of paper dropped from the vending machine. Took me about 5 minutes in the booking hall to make sure it was all there.
 

father_jack

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I'd say its really easy to not grab all your tickets. I booked a day trip once to Liverpool via York, which coincidentally was the best path home. For the two of us 11 pieces of paper dropped from the vending machine. Took me about 5 minutes in the booking hall to make sure it was all there.

Bigger stations have a large box into which all the leftovers are put. If time permits the buyers of future dates will be contacted through their seller (or even googled sometimes when the seller is unhelpful and won't give out any information !!!) and ask to call in before travel to collect the left coupons.

Where the difficulty arises is when it's immediate travel and the pax is gone and the return parts are still at the origin. Then a fax is sometimes sent to the destination station because no doubt the customer will complain there on the way back that "it never printed it at XXXX on my way"............ (But the railway switchboard closed down yesterday so that option is now as good as stuffed).

The final worst bit is when the gateline staff aren't awake and the pax gets through on the reservation only.......... Phone call to train manager but time often doesn't permit.
 

njr001

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Thanks, Father_Jack, if it happens again I will request that the ticket office TIS is checked, I did know instantly that not all tickets were printed as two passengers were travelling out and only one returning, maybe it was the cycle reservation that caused the problem.

There was a very long queue at the ticket office but I managed to stop almost immediately a Chiltern Management Trainee on the concourse who summoned a colleague. No offer of a check of the TIS records.
 

CyrusWuff

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It should be noted that FasTIS (as used by Chiltern and London Overground ticket offices, plus a few others that sell Oyster) has very limited ToD functionality compared to the other Desktop Ticket Issuing Systems, and likely would have given an error if they had attempted to recall the part-printed booking.

However, this is (obviously) not the OP's fault, and should have been resolved using the procedures laid down in KnowledgeBase, rather than directing them to the original retailer or another station.
 

Clip

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It should be noted that FasTIS (as used by Chiltern and London Overground ticket offices, plus a few others that sell Oyster) has very limited ToD functionality compared to the other Desktop Ticket Issuing Systems, and likely would have given an error if they had attempted to recall the part-printed booking.

However, this is (obviously) not the OP's fault, and should have been resolved using the procedures laid down in KnowledgeBase, rather than directing them to the original retailer or another station.

Very much so on all of this post and also shows that the log does work and can be resolved when issues like this arise, contrary to what is being peddaled in the other thread by others
 

gray1404

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I think there is an industry wide issue that there is not consistency on what happens when a customer has a problem collecting their tickets and this needs addressing. Some customers are fobbed off and others are passed around the houses. Too many staff make excuses like passing the person back to the retailer that was used and I am having a regular problem at Liverpool Lime Street that I am being told that the booking office cannot print off tickets for me so I am forced into using the TVM. (I prefer to use a booking office rather then a TVM to avoid problems such as this).
 

jon0844

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I have sympathy with you, as I had problems and got shunted all over the place in almost identical circumstances.

The only difference was that I had a mix of unprinted tickets (which were shown as unprinted, so could be reprinted) and some tickets that printed totally wrong, that couldn't be reissued - but were accepted anyway.

The TVM had printed them as car park day tickets, albeit with the right fare on them.

Machines can therefore absolutely go wrong, but it seems you WILL be shunted around. Staff will say you must go back to the ticket issuer if ordered online, and wash their hands of you even if the seller WAS the same TOC (but obviously we know that technically it IS a different firm acting as agents).
 

AlterEgo

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It's really unacceptable that this keeps happening.

With Trainline-powered systems, all it needs is an authorised person to ring the back office time and say "please re-release the tickets". I used to do this on a daily basis. I'm unsure if station staff are authorised people in that regard but I would be surprised if they weren't. Customer relations can definitely always authorise this, so it would only take one phone call.

This is one area where the industry systems are satisfactory and the problem lies with the people using it...
 

rs101

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Very much so on all of this post and also shows that the log does work and can be resolved when issues like this arise, contrary to what is being peddaled in the other thread by others

No, this shows the log worked in this case. It doesn't mean it always works in every other case though.
 

hairyhandedfool

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.....This episode wasted a considerable amount of time this afternoon, am I just unlucky or is this a fairly common occurrence?

....There was a very long queue at the ticket office but I managed to stop almost immediately a Chiltern Management Trainee on the concourse who summoned a colleague. No offer of a check of the TIS records.

If you have a problem related to tickets, go to the ticket office, they are the most likely to have information or knowledge that will help you. If that is not possible (perhaps because there isn't one) speak to the Guard of your train, or call the company you bought the ticket from.

Never assume a manager knows what to do, these days, from my experience, there is a very high likelihood that the opposite is true.

It should be noted that FasTIS (as used by Chiltern and London Overground ticket offices, plus a few others that sell Oyster) has very limited ToD functionality compared to the other Desktop Ticket Issuing Systems, and likely would have given an error if they had attempted to recall the part-printed booking.

However, this is (obviously) not the OP's fault, and should have been resolved using the procedures laid down in KnowledgeBase, rather than directing them to the original retailer or another station.

Had the Op gone to the ticket office they might have had the situation sorted on the spot, but they didn't. Staff who do not regularly deal with tickets (management, dispatch staff, cleaners, etc) won't be able to provide the help that ticket office staff can in this circumstance. There are some very well meaning staff who try to help but get things wrong because their job does not call for the level of knowledge required to sort the problem.

...Machines can therefore absolutely go wrong, but it seems you WILL be shunted around. Staff will say you must go back to the ticket issuer if ordered online, and wash their hands of you even if the seller WAS the same TOC (but obviously we know that technically it IS a different firm acting as agents).

That's quite a big brush you seem to be tarring all staff with.

It's really unacceptable that this keeps happening.

With Trainline-powered systems, all it needs is an authorised person to ring the back office time and say "please re-release the tickets". I used to do this on a daily basis. I'm unsure if station staff are authorised people in that regard but I would be surprised if they weren't. Customer relations can definitely always authorise this, so it would only take one phone call.

This is one area where the industry systems are satisfactory and the problem lies with the people using it...

I'd imagine that in a station with FasTIS, ticket office staff would be authorised (as the machine can't search for the ToD reference), but the Op didn't go to them. I doubt very much that other "station staff" would know who to call, or even if they could call someone, nevermind if they were actually authorised to do it.
 

njr001

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Thanks to everyone for their interesting comments and advice, the reason I didn't approach the ticket office directly was that it had a huge queue, about the longest I've ever seem at Marylebone. I was also on my way to an appointment and in the past collecting tickets has never been a problem, so I didn't have an hour to spare, I just wanted it reported so I couldn't be accused of trying to obtain a second set of tickets.
 

londonbridge

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I'd say its really easy to not grab all your tickets. I booked a day trip once to Liverpool via York, which coincidentally was the best path home. For the two of us 11 pieces of paper dropped from the vending machine. Took me about 5 minutes in the booking hall to make sure it was all there.

Did you stand at the machine to check them or did you move aside?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=124575
 

njr001

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I stood at the machine and did not move away as only three of about eight tickets I was expecting were produced, I even started the process again selecting collection of prebooked tickets and inserting Creditcard to find that the reference number was no longer recognised.
 

gray1404

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I notice at Liverpool Lime Street there are 4 Virgin TVMs at the top of platform 8 and am additional 2 inside the Virgin Customer Information Point. These are all brand new TVMs.

There are also 2 older Northern TVMs. One to the side of the Travel Centre and one to side of Cafe Nero. These are both somewhat hidden. I notice that whenever I use one of the Northern ones there can be no que whatsoever and they can in fact do unused for some time, and then the moment I start using it, someone will come and que up behind me - even if you look across to see some of the Virgin TVMs going unused.

Of those 2 type of TVMs on offer at Liverpool Lime Street which are the more reliable; the new Virgin ones or the older Northern ones? Even though they print slower I had taken the view that I am best using the Northern ones as they also run the ticket office (although Virgin could also have the ability to resolve problems inside the Information Point...I don't know).
 
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And, from other experiences I have had, I believe MYB ticket office have lost their touch. The last two times I tried to use it, they only had two staff on duty one of whom was covering the excess fare window as well. This station benefits from large numbers of visitors to the UK trying to get to the shopping at Bicester, Oxford (you can see why they might think Oxford Parkway was actually quite close to Oxford!), Blenheim and Stratford. So long queues are de rigeur these days...!:(
 
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