Twice into town in one day

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by TCDD, 22 Oct 2011.

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  1. TCDD

    TCDD Member

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    Yesterday I travelled from my home station of Staines to London and back, travelling out on the 1029 to town, going to Victoria via Clapham Junction, then taking buses around town. I then travelled back, arriving in Staines, just before 1500 hrs. Later in the day I took the 1659 into town, returning around 2200 hrs.

    The tickets I bought from the machine were an off-peak day return from Staines to Feltham, and a Super off-peak railcard from Staines to Zones 1-6. On the first outward journey I ‘used’ the Staines – Feltham outward ticket as far as Feltham, then the Travelcard while in the zones. Returning to Staines in the afternoon, I used the return half of the Staines – Feltham ticket for the ‘last bit’. For the evening trip to London, I used the Travelcard all the way.

    The reason for this combination was because I was under the impression that although a Travelcard was valid for unlimited travel within the zones, it could only be used for one return journey from Staines to the zonal area. Buying a Staines – Feltham ticket allowed me to make a second return trip. I bought super off-peak Travelcard on the understanding that the (greater) restrictions on this ticket do not apply ‘within the zones’.

    As it turns out, there was no ticket check on any trains, I got waved through the manual barrier at Victoria, and the barriers at Staines were open most times I went through. So I couldn’t find out whether a) this combination of tickets is ok, and b) whether specifically, a super off-peak travelcard can be used in this way. It seemed a relatively chaep and eay solution, so I would be grateful for advice on whether it's actually permitted?
     
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  3. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    Yes, it is valid.

     
  4. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    I think technically you should have a Staines to Zone 1-6 travelcard and a Boundary Zone 6 to Staines return, as I believe the travel into zone 6 on the travelcard should be used before the travelcard itself is and the return travel on the Travelcard should be used after the travelcard is finished with, but I'm not sure if this still applies or not (I doubt it is enforceable anyway), but there is also a chance it could be cheaper.
     
  5. TCDD

    TCDD Member

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    Thank you for the advice. I'm a bit puzzled about the (possible) rule about return travel taking place after the travelcard has been used though. I was under the impression that a travelcard is valid until 0429 the the next day within the zones and on TFL buses, and that it's only the journey outside the zones that cannot be repeated. Seems a bit strange that use of the return journey should invalidate this - especially since in Staines there are several TFL London bus routes on which the travelcard is valid.
    That said, I never put my travelcard in the barrier in case it gobbles it up. I remember insisting I wanted to keep my travelcard at Watford Junction once, but was repeatedly told that 'it was expired now' - even though it was valid in the 142 bus from the station to the town centre!
     
  6. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    To be definitely valid, and avoid hassle, bb21 and I advise you buy:


    • Staines-Feltham CDR £5.40
    • Travelcard (in-boundary; ie from Feltham) £8.00
    • Staines-Feltham SCO £4.30
    Total £17.70
    (This is 20p more expensive than the tickets you bought but could potentially save you arguments)

    But you could save money in future by getting the 117 bus from Staines - this would only require an "in-boundary" Travelcard - though this will take longer!
     
  7. TCDD

    TCDD Member

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    Many thanks!
     
  8. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    I'm sure there was something in the old NFMs about it, but I can't say I have seen anything in the FRPP and atm I can't check that as I am not at work.
     
  9. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    Yes, it said that customers should be allowed to keep an outboundary Travelcard if they wish to use it again, though a new ticket would be required to get them to Zone 6.

     
  10. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    Oh okay, I must be mistaken then.
     
  11. TCDD

    TCDD Member

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    Having received advice from earlier in this thread, and planning to go to central London twice tomorrow from Staines, I went to the station to buy the tickets suggested by Yorkie in this thread:

    The response from the ticket clerk was that 'we don't sell in-boundary travelcards here'. Is this correct?

    In the end I bought a super off-peak travelcard and an off-peak return from Staines to 'boundary zone 6'. The clerk wrote 'not valid until 11.30' on the travelcard, but I assume that this prohibition does not apply within the 'zones' and that it has the same validity as a normal off-peakl travelcard. Am I right?
     
  12. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    There is no reason why they shouldn't, especially as the product is valid on the bus outside the station. They're missing out on sellers commission if they won't sell it.

    Yes, within the zones the travelcard is valid from 0930 until 0429 the next day.
     
  13. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    You can buy any ticket from there, it's just the clerk either being obtuse or being too afraid to exercise their right and duty to offer a full range of tickets.
     
  14. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

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    Yes you are right, only the part of the journey outside Zones 1-6 will have the time restriction on it, so you can use it within the zones whenever during the day. Although if you try going through a barrier with it between about 4-7pm in Waterloo/Vauxhall or Clapham it will most likely not let you through, it's still valid though so just show it to the staff, this is so people don't travel outside the travelcard boundary during the evening peak restrictions.

    I'm puzzled as to why Staines wouldn't sell you a Z1-6 Travelcard though! It shouldn't concern them what your intentions are with it as the barriers at Staines would reject it anyway! In future you could just buy the Z1-6 Travelcard online and pick it up from the TVM in Staines!
     
  15. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I would write to SWT and ask them if this is correct, as the Ticketing Settlement Agreement suggests otherwise. If a TOC refuses to adhere to this, they are in breach of their franchise commitments.

    Let us know how you get on. If an acceptable response from SWT is not received within 28 days I would suggest escalating the matter to Passenger Focus or London Travelwatch.
     
  16. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    Common practice to avoid fraud "doughnutting" - you try buying an in-boundary travelcard at Reading and in my experience you will get the same response.
     
  17. TCDD

    TCDD Member

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    Thanks everyone for your responses - I'll try taking it up with SWT but at least I know the tickets I did get will do me tomorrow!
     
  18. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    It does not prevent anything of the sort.
    Then FGW should be written to as well.
     
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