Two more major strandings

[Taunton]

It seems there were two more major breakdowns in the past couple of days, with passengers left on the stuck trains for hours.

Exeter on a Class 800 on GWR. Passengers not recovered for 6 hours

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-45519014

Hundreds of passengers were left stranded on a new GWR high-speed train for six hours after it broke down.

The 14:00 Penzance to Paddington service came to a halt at 17:15 BST just north of Exeter on Thursday.

About 400 passengers had to be assisted off the Hitachi 800 train with ladders and transferred to another train which took them back to Exeter.

GWR apologised to passengers via social media and said they would be offered a refund and a free ticket.

Peckham on London Overground. Passengers stuck all evening.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...le-from-may-20th.164547/page-153#post-3636927

It seems that it's now too difficult to get a diesel loco to assist, the ladders down to the track approach is now the preferred way.

 

[island]

Diesel locos are a bit of an endangered species.

 

[ainsworth74]

Please note that the Class 800 incident has its own thread which can be found here. Please keep discussion of that specific event to the relevant thread.

 

[tsr]

I have posted regarding the Denmark Hill/Clapham High St (not really Peckham) stranding incident here: #4589

 

[Scotrail84]

Diesel locos are a bit of an endangered species.

They're not really though are they.

 

[Cletus]

Currently outside Wrenbury where there’s a level crossing problem.

Hopefully I’m not going to be stranded!

Edit:
Now reversing to Whitchurch, not good.

Phew. Moving forward again at 1840.

 

[bussnapperwm]

With cases where trains are stranded due to a problem with them for more than 2 hours and no evacuation/movement of trains has already started, heads should roll at the highest levels of the TOC/NR in my opinion.

 

[Scotrail84]

With cases where trains are stranded due to a problem with them for more than 2 hours and no evacuation/movement of trains has already started, heads should roll at the highest levels of the TOC/NR in my opinion.

What if all lines are blocked so another set can’t rescue the punters and you’re miles from the nearest road?

 

[bussnapperwm]

What if all lines are blocked so another set can’t rescue the punters and you’re miles from the nearest road?

Get the MOM to hijack a tractor and trailer or two?

 

[tsr]

Get the MOM to hijack a tractor and trailer or two?

AIUI something very similar happened with a stranded train on the King's Lynn route last winter. It didn't take 6 hours to rescue everyone, either.

 

[PHILIPE]

With cases where trains are stranded due to a problem with them for more than 2 hours and no evacuation/movement of trains has already started, heads should roll at the highest levels of the TOC/NR in my opinion.

If you read the thread the whys and wherefores are explained

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-802-failure-between-exeter-and-tiverton-parkway-requiring-evacuation-13-09.169749

 

[bb21]

With cases where trains are stranded due to a problem with them for more than 2 hours and no evacuation/movement of trains has already started, heads should roll at the highest levels of the TOC/NR in my opinion.

Out of interest, heads rolling, and replace them with what?

Every single one of them went into the job thinking they can do better, and the employers were hardly going to go for someone other than the best candidate for the job.

 

[Scotrail84]

Get the MOM to hijack a tractor and trailer or two?

Or sit tight until a proper plan of action is devised rather than pissing about taking folk off trains with no plan in place.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Every single one of them went into the job thinking they can do better, and the employers were hardly going to go for someone other than the best candidate for the job.

More a case of going into a job for the money. These days its all about who can talk the talk, nothing about how competent or knowledgeable you are.

 

[JN114]

More a case of going into a job for the money. These days its all about who can talk the talk, nothing about how competent or knowledgeable you are.

And with an attitude like that I can quite confidently say you have neither.

 

[Surreytraveller]

And with an attitude like that I can quite confidently say you have neither.

An attitude like what? I don't quite understand what it is you're trying to say?

 

[JN114]

If you think that all control staff are just in it for the money, that they aren’t competent or knowledgeable enough to do the job - they just “talked the talk” in interviews; you’ve demonstrated that you don’t have some of the core skills that a controller would require.

 

[Surreytraveller]

If you think that all control staff are just in it for the money, that they aren’t competent or knowledgeable enough to do the job - they just “talked the talk” in interviews; you’ve demonstrated that you don’t have some of the core skills that a controller would require.

Who said anything about control staff? The comment I made was in response to a comment someone else made about people at the top. Nothing to do with control. People running the company. Directors and plebs like that.

 

[JN114]

Taking passengers off a train is an absolute last resort. On a train they are easily kept together, can be easily fed and watered and kept informed as to what is going on.

Trackside is a dangerous environment - even when trains are stopped. The underfoot conditions are difficult in safety boots - never mind whatever footwear the passengers may be wearing. If it’s dark or slippery worse so.

Transboardment via inter-unit gangways is the preferred method of evacuation, as no trackside excursion is necessary. But not all rolling stock has end gangways, or there may be a freight train trapped behind or some other similar inability to get another unit on the end.

Second preference is then transboardment to a train on an adjacent line - this can be achieved a number of ways; but what can prevent this, as bnm eluded to is the gap between lines the “6ft”, presence of high levels of cant if it’s on a curve on a high speed line, or the adjacent line being unavailable because it’s open for traffic or some other unavailability.

So the last resort is transboardment or complete evacuation to a suitable trackside location. This carries by far the greatest risk of injury; needs the most staff to implement. It will only be considered when the risk involved evacuating to the track is balanced with the risk remaining on the train.

In the case of the incident in Devon on Thursday the decision to evacuate had been made, but was expedited when a passenger attempted to self-evacuate from the train. At that point it was considered it was no longer safe to keep the adjacent line open; and so rather than stopping traffic on the down line in a controlled manner - with trains held further up line in stations as had been intended; the evacuation to the Voyager was expedited and there ended up with a queue on the Down Line.

 

[jimm]

Who said anything about control staff? The comment I made was in response to a comment someone else made about people at the top. Nothing to do with control. People running the company. Directors and plebs like that.

Whatever the case, it was a pretty daft thing to say. Rather like the initial post.

I'd love to know why someone should lose their job if a train couldn't be evacuated within two hours in, say, the middle of Culloden Moor on the West Highland Line, a place a long way from anywhere that could provide a rescue train or loco in a hurry, and miles from any road.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Whatever the case, it was a pretty daft thing to say. Rather like the initial post.

If you are going to criticise, at least read what it is you're criticising first. Apology accepted.

 

[Taunton]

or there may be a freight train trapped behind or some other similar inability to get another unit on the end.

It presumably not occuring to anyone that it would have a diesel loco on the front which would be particularly useful in clearing the breakdown.

The point behind this thread was not the individual incidents, discussed elsewhere, but the seemingly increasing number of gross lengthy delays for various breakdowns. There was apparently another one just two days ago as well https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...g-evacuation-13-09.169749/page-3#post-3639072 almost within sight of Kings Cross, where a Thunderbird loco is sat permanently waiting to go. Yet it took hours to handle.

At the end of steam, the Taunton West End station pilot was a Hall, not a tank engine, which could, and did, set off at near-warp factor speed within a couple of minutes, genuinely, of being advised of a failure out on the line. There were all sorts of procedures worked out, hand written by the shed foreman (men didn't type in those days) which the crew knew, for assisting from the front, from behind, etc. Do such even exist now?

 

[jon0844]

Taking passengers off a train is an absolute last resort. On a train they are easily kept together, can be easily fed and watered and kept informed as to what is going on.

Trackside is a dangerous environment - even when trains are stopped. The underfoot conditions are difficult in safety boots - never mind whatever footwear the passengers may be wearing. If it’s dark or slippery worse so.

I think there was a railway worker hurt yesterday after falling when walking on ballast in the ten foot, as it sunk down for whatever reason, causing him to fall and cut himself on a piece of spare rail. No serious injury (but a cut needing attention) but this is a good example of why you don't want 500-1000 people trying to walk along the track except for an emergency. This accident was in the middle of the day when it was clear and dry.

 

[JonathanP]

I'm not sure what sort of hand written 'procedures' you are thinking of, but the methods for the recovery of a failed train are and always have been part of the rules and regulations used by signalmen, guards and drivers. You certainly wouldn't leave something safety-critical like that to local arrangements, only perhaps who would be responsible for providing the recovery loco and crew and where the failed train be taken to.

From a pure signalling point of view it's actually now a lot easier to recover a failed train due to the advent of modern communication technology. In the 'old days' the fireman/secondman would have to walk to the nearest place they could summon assistance, possibly to the next station. The assisting loco would then have to proceed at caution to towards the failed train, whose location they did not exactly know, relying on detonators laid by the guard and fireman to give them advance warning of the need to stop. These days you can just make a radio call. The difficult part is finding compatible traction and crew.

 

[Malcolmffc]

Out of interest, heads rolling, and replace them with what?

Every single one of them went into the job thinking they can do better, and the employers were hardly going to go for someone other than the best candidate for the job.

Yep, people never get hired for being friends/family/ex-colleagues of the person doing the interview...

 

[jimm]

If you are going to criticise, at least read what it is you're criticising first. Apology accepted.

I have read it thanks - and I know a couple of TOC executives personally. Neither of them is "in it for the money" and competent and knowledgable are certainly adjectives that could be applied to them. Same could be said for plenty of other railway managers and staff I have met.

The person who should be apologising here is you.

 

[Llanigraham]

Yep, people never get hired for being friends/family/ex-colleagues of the person doing the interview...

That suggests that you nothing about the way recruitment is now conducted on the railway.
Perhaps you should read the relevant section on this Forum.

 

[daikilo]

What I would like to think, and assume will be the case for the 802 incident, is that an analysis will be done to determine what was actually needed to move the train, as opposed to what the staff assumed. This is part of the learnin process for new situations and may lead tomodifications (hardware or software).

I agree that transfer via the track can never pass a random safety analysis unless a lighted walkway is provided all over the network. Obviously, it generally cannot be avoided in the case of a derailment, but should be made to be avoidable in all other cases.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Yes, there are plenty of competent and knowledgeable railway staff and executives. There are also plenty of incompetent and unknowledgeable railway staff and executives. I make no apology for my previous comments.

 

[SPADTrap]

Management are terrified of making a decision to evacuate because they're worried that if the problem magically self rectifies and the train can move but they're half way through an evacuation then they'll have to explain why they exacerbated the delay by evacuating. So the net result is everyone sits around waiting for self rectification even when it should be obvious it isn't happening. And then you get situations like this where people are stranded for hours. It's safe on the train but when people are wetting themselves the situation needs a serious review.