Two questions about staff authorising ticketless travel

[arabianights]

1. Can ticketless travel be authorised retrospectively?
2. Theoretically, can Richard Branson, as a member of railway staff, authorise himself to travel for free on e.g. Scotrail services?

 

[Agent_c]

2. Theoretically, can Richard Branson, as a member of railway staff, authorise himself to travel for free on e.g. Scotrail services?

I don't believe he is a member of Railway staff....

 

[bb21]

1. Can ticketless travel be authorised retrospectively?

Depends.

2. Theoretically, can Richard Branson, as a member of railway staff, authorise himself to travel for free on e.g. Scotrail services?

No.

 

[swt_passenger]

...can Richard Branson, as a member of railway staff,

Biggest laugh I've had all year.

 

[TUC]

2. Theoretically, can Richard Branson, as a member of railway staff, authorise himself to travel for free on e.g. Scotrail services?

Despite him being the public face of Virgin, Richard Branson is not on the board of Virgin West Coast (and presumably not Virgin East Coast). His company, Virgin Management own 51% of Virgin West Coast but he is not on the board himself as far as I can see ( see http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/media-room/fact-sheet.pdf ).

In any event, corporate governance arrangements would require free travel for company owners or board members to be authorised through a specified process, usually agreed by the Audit or Renumeration Committees-and that could probably only be in relation to Virgin Trains (separately for each company), not any other TOC.

 

[DelayRepay]

I don't believe he is a member of Railway staff....

You often see him on the concouse at Euston helping the staff out during disruption and he has been known to operte the catering trolley when one of the First Class hosts has been off sick...

 

[the sniper]

2. Theoretically, can Richard Branson, as a member of railway staff, authorise himself to travel for free on e.g. Scotrail services?

Biggest laugh I've had all year.

What do you mean? He's competent in many grades...

Cleaner

First Class host

Driver

Guard

So to answer the OP, obviously yes he can.

 

[91103eastcoast]

He probably wouldn't make a good guard if he was drinking alcohol on duty as he was in that last picture.

 

[the sniper]

He probably wouldn't make a good guard if he was drinking whilst alcohol on duty as he was in that last picture.

Looks like water to me.

 

[91103eastcoast]

Looks like water to me.

On a second glance, it does. I need my eyes testing...:roll:

 

[arabianights]

Looks like water to me.

But he is capable of turning it into wine, no?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Depends.

The scenario that inspired this question:

Yesterday I took a train journey, it matters not where, and on the outward portion the guard did not come to sell me a ticket, so on the return portion I asked to buy a ticket that would cover both journeys and while I forget the exact words of the guard was more or less told not to worry about it and just get a single. Never mind whether what happened in the particular occasion counts as permission; the question is whether the guard on the second journey has the power to say I could make a journey I already had effectively for free so that if secretly somehow I had been tailed by Scotrail and they now sent me an invoice for the first journey, which I believe they are entitled to do in theory, even though I did not break any rules, the journey had subsequently been authorised.

 

[bunnahabhain]

The scenario that inspired this question:

Yesterday I took a train journey, it matters not where, and on the outward portion the guard did not come to sell me a ticket, so on the return portion I asked to buy a ticket that would cover both journeys and while I forget the exact words of the guard was more or less told not to worry about it and just get a single. Never mind whether what happened in the particular occasion counts as permission; the question is whether the guard on the second journey has the power to say I could make a journey I already had effectively for free so that if secretly somehow I had been tailed by Scotrail and they now sent me an invoice for the first journey, which I believe they are entitled to do in theory, even though I did not break any rules, the journey had subsequently been authorised.

For me, as a guard, if you are honest enough to tell me that then I'd treat you the same. For whatever reason "we" have been unable to collect your fare before now and if you were travelling on a fairly long distance run, as a personal gesture of thanks and goodwill from me, I'd offer you the cheapest single vice the return for your honesty regardless of where you started your journey. Its probably not strictly by the book, but I'd rather be told the truth than be asked for "A single from Cheltenham to Newport please" and get a shocked response when the full price is quoted.

For the avoidance of doubt you can be authorised to travel by anybody but you should technically be given an authority to travel form, zero fare unpaid fares notice or have a ticket endorsed to say so. So whilst strictly the guard shouldn't do it, I personally feel its the right thing to do in that situation on the return portion for a long distance journey. On a short distance journey or if you were still on the outward portion of the route I'd probably issue the appropriate walk up fare for the journey. At the end of the day, it all depends on the passenger and the guard, its not strictly right, but I feel its morally correct and builds a nice rapport between guard and passenger, and company and passenger.

 

[185143]

Slightly off topic but if a ticket has been endorsed, can staff refuse to accept it?

Also, can they refuse to accept of ticket acceptance is in place?

 

[Aictos]

1. There has been a time when Virgin Trains and London Midland were accepting Chiltern Railways tickets due to a broken down train at Leamington Spa where the VT guard on a service to Euston at New Street refused to accept ticket acceptance was in operation, cue a visit to the VT travel centre to get tickets endorsed to use the next VT service to London.

2. I think it depends on the situation, I don't support ticketless travel in general but it depends on the situation at the time as discretion may have to be shown as there may be a reason for it.

 

[LowLevel]

Slightly off topic but if a ticket has been endorsed, can staff refuse to accept it?

Also, can they refuse to accept of ticket acceptance is in place?

If a ticket has been endorsed by an authorised person they cannot prosecute the passenger under the bye laws so effectively, no they can't refuse to accept the ticket. They can however report the person endorsing the ticket for doing so inappropriately.

The answer to the second one is also no - that will be down to a communications issue and if the person in question refuses to investigate further then they aren't exactly doing their job properly.

 

[RailAleFan]

An organised PR event is one thing, but I'm 100% sure that if Richard Branson found himself in London and needed to be in Manchester in 2 hours and 7 minutes he would buy a ticket (probably first class) just like anybody else.

It's just not fair to put any member of staff for a company with which you are affiliated in the position of having to take an out of band policy decision on the basis of "don't you know who I am!?"