Two sides of Northwich cut-off by road so train provides lifeline

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peters

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Due to flooding in the Northwich area it is not possible to cross the River Weaver via the A559 or the pedestrian footbridge a short walk from the town centre. It is possible to take a long diversion via the A556 but that's no much use for those without cars.

Arriva are currently terminating the Weaverham to Northwich bus at Greenbank station


Due to flooding, 2 Bridges in Northwich have been closed and we are unable to serve the area; Service 1 terminating at Greenbank

While Warrington's Own Buses are diverting the Warrington to Northwich bus to terminate it at Greenbank station

this will be going through to Northwich as a 9A but terminating at Greenbank Station as we can't get across the bridge into the town centre


Meaning the Greenbank to Northwich train service is currently a lifeline for those unable to cross the river by bus or on foot. The chance of the railway line on the viaduct flooding is almost none. It's just unfortunate Northern are only running a 2 hourly service.

Northwich station has a Tesco store right next to it, so very convenient for those living the wrong side of the river but needing to access a supermarket.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Are the bridges damaged or just closed until inspected? If they close for a long period, the sort of thing they did at Workington with a dedicated rail shuttle is not at all unlikely.
 

LOL The Irony

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Are the bridges damaged or just closed until inspected? If they close for a long period, the sort of thing they did at Workington with a dedicated rail shuttle is not at all unlikely.
All the trains I've seen on NRE today have been consistently delayed and checking RTT, all the freights are cancelled, so there must be some form of speed & weight restriction in place.

EDIT:
To add to these woes, there's some sort of issue around Skelton Junction. An all round bad day for the Mid-Cheshire. Reminds me of the points being frozen at Greenbank around this time last year.
 
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atillathehunn

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Are the bridges damaged or just closed until inspected? If they close for a long period, the sort of thing they did at Workington with a dedicated rail shuttle is not at all unlikely.
The damage is not yet known. The point is that the railway viaduct crosses the river at a very high level whereas the road crosses at river level-ish. The river is very very high. Photos are taken from a neighbourhood Facebook group and are not mine. You're supposed to be able to pass a boat under that bridge and that water is supposed to be substantially below the flood barricade..
 

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peters

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Are the bridges damaged or just closed until inspected? If they close for a long period, the sort of thing they did at Workington with a dedicated rail shuttle is not at all unlikely.

I think the issue with the road bridges that the roads on the town centre side of the bridges are flooded. The bridges go over the River Weaver but between the two bridges the River Dane feeds in to the Weaver so there's two rivers which can flood roads by breaking their banks.

There's some images on the Northwich Guardian website:https://www.northwichguardian.co.uk...h-hit-severe-floods-storm-christoph/#gallery1

The bridges themselves look fine, although you may not be able to get a narrow boat under them without opening them but the roads leading to the bridges are certainly not fine.
 

Class 170101

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Meaning the Greenbank to Northwich train service is currently a lifeline for those unable to cross the river by bus or on foot. The chance of the railway line on the viaduct flooding is almost none. It's just unfortunate Northern are only running a 2 hourly service.

The only risk will be the viaduct being undermined in a similar way to Lamington on the West Coast Main Line.
 

peters

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All the trains I've seen on NRE today have been consistently delayed and checking RTT, all the freights are cancelled, so there must be some form of speed & weight restriction in place.

Yesterday the 15:02 Chester to Manchester got delayed by 35 minutes at Delamere, apparently due to a landslip, it was 71 minutes late by Sharston Junction. All services after that until 9am this morning were cancelled.

The pair of trains that got stuck at Chester yesterday evening operated the 09:02 Chester to Manchester this morning. As the 08:41 Manchester to Chester was cancelled there was no train in place to run the 11:02 Chester to Manchester. A VST ECS path was added to for a movement from Longsight to Chester but that ended up being 30 minutes late leaving Stockport and losing further time by Altrincham so it only went as far as Greenbank and started the 11:02 from Greenbank, 12 minutes behind schedule.

However, all trains do seem to be losing some time between Navigation Road and Stockport.
 

peters

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The only risk will be the viaduct being undermined in a similar way to Lamington on the West Coast Main Line.

BBC North West Tonight have sent their main presenter to Northwich who has just shown the bridges open but the roads leading to them flooded. It just reported the river has not burst its banks but something to do with the flood defences preventing water draining in to the river so it's come up through sewers in the town centre streets, so the viaduct foundations shouldn't be submerged.
 

Bevan Price

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Yes I must admit that was my concern too.
The BBC North West news report at teamtime said that the river had not overflowed at Northwich. The problem had been too much rain for the street drains to remove all the water.
 

TimboM

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Anyone from Northwich commenting on this thread?

We need local expertise for this one I'd say. Someone on the ground who knows the local area.
 

Bevan Price

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Anyone from Northwich commenting on this thread?

We need local expertise for this one I'd say. Someone on the ground who knows the local area.
I don't live there, but I know there is a steep hill (Castle Hill) just to the west of the town centre, which includes the main road towards Greenbank station. Any surplus rainwater would rush downhill onto two bridges across the river.
 

TimboM

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I don't live there, but I know there is a steep hill (Castle Hill) just to the west of the town centre, which includes the main road towards Greenbank station. Any surplus rainwater would rush downhill onto two bridges across the river.
Wouldn't the water go downhill into the river? The road bridges were still passable for the majority of the day.

It's also not a huge town - it's not really a long way to head out onto the bypass and get from one side to the other without going through the very centre where its flooded.

A rail shuttle is highly unlikely.
 

craigybagel

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All the trains I've seen on NRE today have been consistently delayed and checking RTT, all the freights are cancelled, so there must be some form of speed & weight restriction in place.

EDIT:
To add to these woes, there's some sort of issue around Skelton Junction. An all round bad day for the Mid-Cheshire. Reminds me of the points being frozen at Greenbank around this time last year.

Yesterday the 15:02 Chester to Manchester got delayed by 35 minutes at Delamere, apparently due to a landslip, it was 71 minutes late by Sharston Junction. All services after that until 9am this morning were cancelled.

The pair of trains that got stuck at Chester yesterday evening operated the 09:02 Chester to Manchester this morning. As the 08:41 Manchester to Chester was cancelled there was no train in place to run the 11:02 Chester to Manchester. A VST ECS path was added to for a movement from Longsight to Chester but that ended up being 30 minutes late leaving Stockport and losing further time by Altrincham so it only went as far as Greenbank and started the 11:02 from Greenbank, 12 minutes behind schedule.

However, all trains do seem to be losing some time between Navigation Road and Stockport.
From 1600 Tuesday until 1200 Thursday there was a 40mph blanket speed restriction on most routes around Manchester, including the entire section from Northwich to Piccadilly, which might have been at least partially responsible for the delays experienced.
 

peters

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Wouldn't the water go downhill into the river? The road bridges were still passable for the majority of the day.
No. The flood fences designed at preventing river water flooding the streets are holding water on the wrong side so engineers are actually pumping water into the river. There's also an issue with a pumping station not being able to keep up with demand.

The police were turning cars and pedestrians back by around 3pm yesterday. North West Tonight also showed a temporary flood defence has been installed near Waitrose, which blocks off London Road.
 

peters

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Anyone from Northwich commenting on this thread?

We need local expertise for this one I'd say. Someone on the ground who knows the local area.

I've spent 10 years of my life going into Northwich on a daily basis but due to COVID I haven't been there for a few months. I did speak to someone who lives in Castle yesterday though.
 

peters

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It's also not a huge town - it's not really a long way to head out onto the bypass and get from one side to the other without going through the very centre where its flooded.

Google Maps seems to have had the road closures added. From the solicitors at the bottom of Castle Street to Lidl on Chesterway Google says it's a 6.8 mile journey instead of the usual 0.5 mile or so, that'll be one of the longest diversions possible. It could have been far worse if most schools had been fully open as the traffic can be chaos around the Greenbank area around school starting and finishing times normally, it's not unknown to take 15 minutes to do half a mile if you're unlucky, so with diverted traffic as well it could have potentially taken an hour or so to get from one side of the river to the other around school starting and finishing times.
 

Greybeard33

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The only risk will be the viaduct being undermined in a similar way to Lamington on the West Coast Main Line.
The viaduct has two steel girder spans over the two branches of the Weaver, with the abutments on the banks.
However, all trains do seem to be losing some time between Navigation Road and Stockport.
Ongoing delays of a few minutes between Northenden Junction and Deansgate Junction this morning. Due to a signalling fault according to Northern JourneyCheck. Trains running normally through Northwich, including freights, but the road bridges are still closed.
 

peters

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Arriva have just Tweeted that bus services will be unable to serve Northwich town centre until at least Monday

Arriva North West said:
Due to flooding services are unable to serve Northwich;

Information source 1 terminating at Greenbank
Information source 2 & 4 terminating at the Police station
Information source 29 terminating at Sir John Deanes
Information source 31 & 37 terminating at Kingsmead

These will remain in place until at least Monday 25/01.

 

frodshamfella

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I don't live there, but I know there is a steep hill (Castle Hill) just to the west of the town centre, which includes the main road towards Greenbank station. Any surplus rainwater would rush downhill onto two bridges across the river.
I live close to Northwich in Dutton, The Weaver has burst its bank here and I believe in Northwich too. Apparently flats close the river have been evaluated. Houses in my lane are also flooded.
 

holl1984

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I live in greenbank. The bridges are closed because the high st and London road were flooded and impassable. You can still acsess town from the other side via rudheath and the a556 but all those roads have been absolutely heaving all day as the a556 has major roadworks on at the roberts bakery crossroads as well
 

Jamesrob637

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Could Northern reinstate an hourly service just for next week? Or how it was prior to Monday with just a couple of gaps? That they reduced the service at all on weekdays (Sundays is/was/has always been dire) is another matter!
 

holl1984

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Bridges due to reopen some point during Monday so not necessary.

I’m nipping Tesco for essentials shortly. If using the train works ok, it might become a normal thing for me instead of the trek to Asda and back!
 

peters

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Bridges due to reopen some point during Monday so not necessary.
There's an argument that even ignoring the flooding issue that Northern have cut back the service too much. It seemed their planners ignored the fact the Mid-Cheshire should have gone to 2tph at the busiest stations, so removing half of the standard pattern services on the Mid-Cheshire line is equivalent to removing 3/4 of standard pattern services on the Buxton line. They managed to retain an hourly service on the Stoke stopper, which was the other line which missed out on much needed enhancements promised at the December 2017 timetable change.
 

holl1984

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I meant not necessary with regard to the flooding situation.

I agree it does need increasing but that’s an issue for another time!

Bridges due to reopen some point during Monday so not necessary.

I’m nipping Tesco for essentials shortly. If using the train works ok, it might become a normal thing for me instead of the trek to Asda and back!
Opened again within the last hour
 

TimboM

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Bridges due to reopen some point during Monday so not necessary.

I’m nipping Tesco for essentials shortly. If using the train works ok, it might become a normal thing for me instead of the trek to Asda and back!
They were already open this afternoon. or at least the two on Chester Way were over the Dane and the Weaver.

London Road past Waitrose and Weaver Court also dry and open.

Great effort by all those who've been getting rid of the water, including an army of local famers with tractors and tankers (even if one did deposit a tanker load of flood water down the access ramp to Hartford station!).
 
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