Two Together on Virgin before 0930

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Zooty

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Hi all

I'm slightly confused so hope you can help :D

I'm looking at making a weekday day trip from Lancaster to Glasgow. There'll be two of us and we'll have a Two Together railcard.

Using Virgin's booking site the 0830 departure is only offered with the non-discounted any permitted off-peak ticket. This is as I'd expect for a departure before 0930 and I can choose a railcard discounted fare for the return leg.

However, the 0908 departure (also before 0930!) is offered with railcard discounted standard and 1st off-peak tickets. These are VT only rather than any permitted.

Is this correct? Can I avail of a two together discount before 0930? And if so, why not on the earlier train?

Thanks for any help!
 
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Indigo2

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I can't reproduce this. Any chance you can provide a screenshot to show what you mean?

What date are you looking at, by the way?
 

yorkie

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Indeed, and which website?

If you're offered an itinerary and you book it, your tickets are valid with that itinerary. If it's a mistake they will fix it by bumping up the price if & when they become aware of it.
 

Zooty

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Attached is what I see. Something is screwy I think. The site is returning a selection of off-peak singles which work out more expensive than the equivalent return. (I don't see this if I look for fares to London for example so I don't think it's anything I've done...)

Anyway, if I click the link at the bottom to show return fares then I can still get Two Together discount on that train. The second attachment shows the much better value £39.60 off-peak 1st return.
 

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30907

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There are two different fares here, the Off-Peak which is valid at any time after 0415, and the Off peak Day which is after 0930. However, neither is a VT only fare.

I deduce that the VT only shown must mean that Virgin is allowing their standard concession to Railcard holders, which is that Off Peak restrictions don't apply.
Fine, except that the 0830 is also a VT service....at which point I join the Puzzled of Preston brigade and wait for an expert....

Then again, does the concession apply to 2Tog?
 
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Bletchleyite

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The VT Railcard concession only exists on flows where VT set the fare, I believe, for travel wholly on VT. If there's a VT Only ticket they don't set the fare (they aren't allowed to have VT Only tickets on flows where they set the Any Permitted fare). So only the VT Only fare will attract the concession.

Edit: Sorry, scratch that. It does indeed appear this is the concession on a VT-set Any Permitted fare turning it into effectively VT Only for that leg.

Neil
 
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SickyNicky

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The 2 together terms and conditions, condition 8 says:

Discounts are not valid for travel from 04:30 – 09:29 hours, Monday to Friday, except on Public Holidays.
So regardless of Virgin's railcard offer, the railcard shouldn't be valid at that time.
 

hairyhandedfool

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Hi all

I'm slightly confused so hope you can help :D

I'm looking at making a weekday day trip from Lancaster to Glasgow. There'll be two of us and we'll have a Two Together railcard.

Using Virgin's booking site the 0830 departure is only offered with the non-discounted any permitted off-peak ticket. This is as I'd expect for a departure before 0930 and I can choose a railcard discounted fare for the return leg.

However, the 0908 departure (also before 0930!) is offered with railcard discounted standard and 1st off-peak tickets. These are VT only rather than any permitted.

Is this correct? Can I avail of a two together discount before 0930? And if so, why not on the earlier train?

Thanks for any help!
I don't know what fare it is offering you, I can't seem to match it on my ticket machine, so I suspect it is an error (New Year's fares changes shouldn't be in the system yet).

If it were a ticket restriction error I'd be inclined to agree with Yorkie that so long as you can show it's what you agreed to then you'll be fine, but this doesn't appear to be a ticket restriction error, there is a Railcard restriction at play.

When the Railcard was bought, one of the holders signed a declaration, (or ticked a box if bought online) to say they had read and understood the T&Cs. Within those T&Cs was a passage that stated discounted tickets can't be used for a Journey beginning between 0430 and 0930 Mon-Fri (not bank holidays). I believe this would undermine any claim that you believed the ticket to be valid because of a website, even if it is Virgin's own site.

The Two Together Railcard is not included in the Railcard Easement for Virgin Trains
 

Tetchytyke

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I can get Virgin Trains' website to show the same mistake, but East Coast's website doesn't (that correctly shows the 0955 as the first valid train). Both websites say it is a VT-Only off peak day return priced at £15.20 (railcard discount), but BRFares says this fare doesn't exist- the only off-peak day return there is £21.50 (railcard discount).

I'm guessing that they're introducing a new fare and haven't put the restrictions in properly. If you can get the website to sell you the ticket then, in my opinion, they should honour it, but as hairyhandedfool says it's not a time restriction issue but a railcard restriction issue so expect hassle.
 

Zooty

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Thanks all. I've done a bit more digging. Up until 28th Nov, the following fares are available (one adult, non-discounted):

Off-peak day return (any permitted) £32.60
Off-peak return (any permitted) £60.00
Anytime return (any permitted) £108.60
1st Anytime return (any permitted) £261.60

From 29th Nov, the following are added:

Off-peak day return (Virgin Trnsonly) £23.00
1st Off-peak return (Virgin Trnsonly) £60.00
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The Two Together Railcard is not included in the Railcard Easement for Virgin Trains
Thanks for checking. That's what I thought. As I understand it, the Virgin easement is specifically to allow railcard discounted OFF-PEAK tickets on services where otherwise a PEAK ticket would be required. This anomoly doesn't fit into that category as the undiscounted off-peak fare is available anyway.

I'm guessing that they're introducing a new fare and haven't put the restrictions in properly. If you can get the website to sell you the ticket then, in my opinion, they should honour it, but as hairyhandedfool says it's not a time restriction issue but a railcard restriction issue so expect hassle.
I agree. I haven't actually bought the railcard yet and as it would be very unlikely to be used for another trip (generally travel with a Friends & Family) then I may not bother. The 1st off-peak return seems ridiculously good value (advances on the 0908 are pricey!) so I think I'll forgo the £13 or so quid I'd save rather than risking hassle on the train and spoiling a day out.
 
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