Two Together with one PlusBus?

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Leisurefirst

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Hi, one for the ticket office experts please.
Travelling with someone together with a Two Together railcard.
Need to make a couple of bus journeys but the person I am travelling with has free bus travel with their Concessionary Pass.
Firstly am I entitled to buy one PlusBus ticket only for myself?
Secondly, if so would it be at the discounted rate or not?
Thank you.
 
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alistairlees

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Hi, one for the ticket office experts please.
Travelling with someone together with a Two Together railcard.
Need to make a couple of bus journeys but the person I am travelling with has free bus travel with their Concessionary Pass.
Firstly am I entitled to buy one PlusBus ticket only for myself?
Secondly, if so would it be at the discounted rate or not?
Thank you.
In my view you could buy one undiscounted plusbus ticket; or two plusbus tickets with a two together railcard.
 

Haywain

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Firstly am I entitled to buy one PlusBus ticket only for myself?
Secondly, if so would it be at the discounted rate or not?
Yes, you are entitled to buy a PlusBus ticket but not at the discounted rate.
 

riceuten

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Yes, you are entitled to buy a PlusBus ticket but not at the discounted rate.

To be fair, 34% off something like £3-5 for a day ticket hardly breaks the bank. My sole quibble with PlusBus is an inability to be able to buy tickets in advance without visiting a station (but that's for another thread...).
 

Haywain

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My sole quibble with PlusBus is an inability to be able to buy tickets in advance without visiting a station (but that's for another thread...).
Our website sells PlusBus in advance as long as it is conjunction with rail ticket. It wouldn't help in this case due to the change in numbers and discount though.
 

Leisurefirst

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Thank you for the replies.
Allowing the purchase of one PlusBus but without the discount is absolutely fair enough and what I would expect.
Asked about the discount as in this case will be probably cheaper to buy two singles on the bus than an undiscounted PlusBus (or at worst the same price on the bus for a day ticket and not have to potentially miss a bus whilst queuing at the ticket office).
 

riceuten

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Our website sells PlusBus in advance as long as it is conjunction with rail ticket. It wouldn't help in this case due to the change in numbers and discount though.
I was more thinking that (provided it was loadable on to an ITSO card) the bus ticket and the train ticket could be stored in the same place. I know TL allow you to use "The Key" on Govia buses and the far is capped at the PlusBus fare.
 

Haywain

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It depends what you mean tbh, plusbus capping is in place in Brighton, Lewes, Eastbourne & Crawley on GTRs Key; https://www.buses.co.uk/plusbus
The page you’ve linked does not mention anything about capping for a day’s travel. And if it does exist it isn’t PlusBus if it doesn’t require a rail ticket to be held to or from outside of the PlusBus area.
 

Argyle 1980

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I've got a free bus pass so don't need plusbus myself, but I've succesfully bought plus bus tickets for someone traveling with me on both my disabled card and also on my Devon &Cornwall residence railcard. Also in London I know I'm entitled to purchase a discounted travelcard for anybody travelling with me,
 

pelli

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The page you’ve linked does not mention anything about capping for a day’s travel. And if it does exist it isn’t PlusBus if it doesn’t require a rail ticket to be held to or from outside of the PlusBus area.

With some Googling, I've found that the Brighton&Hove Buses keyGo page and the Southern keyGo FAQ page imply that the day capping is trying to act like a PlusBus by using the PlusBus rate instead of the local bus day ticket rate if you have made a train journey to/from the PlusBus area (using the same keyGo card, presumably). I couldn't figure out whether they impose the additional requirement that the train journey is not entirely within the PlusBus area, and whether the PlusBus cap can be applied retroactively (i.e. if you start your day travelling on multiple buses and go over the PlusBus rate before boarding an eligible train, will you then get refunded down to the PlusBus rate?). Either way it sounds like this way of capping resolves my main annoyance with PlusBus - that you can't make use of it on your bus to the station in the morning unless you've collected the ticket beforehand or had it posted to you (assuming your bus journey to the station doesn't cost more than the PlusBus rate, if the cap doesn't apply retroactively).

https://www.buses.co.uk/keygo said:
Each journey is charged at the single fare shown in the below table but you will not pay more than the day cap price for the zone if you make two or more journeys. If you have also made a train journey using keyGo which started or finished in the same zone, you will not pay more than the day Plusbus price for the zone.

https://www.southernrailway.com/help-and-support/contact-us/faqs/keygo said:
Bus fares on keyGo will be charged according to whether:
  • you have used the train that day
  • you have made any journeys within one or more keyGo bus zones
  • you have made single or multiple bus journeys
  • you have used the train and bus in more than one keyGo bus zone on the same day e.g. travelled by train between Brighton and Gatwick Airport having boarded buses either side of your train journey Journeys that have included train travel on the same day will be capped at the relevant PlusBus zone fare, providing your keyGo is accepted within that bus zone. Read more information on PlusBus. If you've travelled by bus in more than one keyGo bus zone there will be a multiple zonal price cap which will never be more than the price of 2 bus zones added together.
  • Journeys that have not included train travel will be capped at the relevant day ticket for that bus zone. For more details, visit Metrobus or Brighton & Hove buses.
 

Haywain

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With some Googling, I've found that the Brighton&Hove Buses keyGo page and the Southern keyGo FAQ page imply that the day capping is trying to act like a PlusBus by using the PlusBus rate instead of the local bus day ticket rate if you have made a train journey to/from the PlusBus area (using the same keyGo card, presumably). I couldn't figure out whether they impose the additional requirement that the train journey is not entirely within the PlusBus area, and whether the PlusBus cap can be applied retroactively (i.e. if you start your day travelling on multiple buses and go over the PlusBus rate before boarding an eligible train, will you then get refunded down to the PlusBus rate?). Either way it sounds like this way of capping resolves my main annoyance with PlusBus - that you can't make use of it on your bus to the station in the morning unless you've collected the ticket beforehand or had it posted to you (assuming your bus journey to the station doesn't cost more than the PlusBus rate, if the cap doesn't apply retroactively).
Well, that's very good, although it does depend on the rail travel being made using the keyGo/Key smartcard. It appears to be an uncommonly good implementation of integrated travel and, unusually, this PlusBus scheme also does not require the rail journey to commence or end outside the PlusBus area.
 

paul1609

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island

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I don’t think any TIS will issue one ticket with a Two Together Railcard discount.

If you did manage to get one (or booked two and only used one, for whatever reason), then I doubt any bus driver would challenge it.
 

Joshua_Harman

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no Plus Bus tickets are enabled for ITSO fulfilment as far as I know
You can buy a plusbus ticket on a smartcard in some places in scotland & essex (https://www.plusbus.info/news ) and on the Key in brighton either through capping on key-go or just on the card itself, but it only works on Go-Ahead buses and compass so there would not be much benifit over the paper version.
 

Wallsendmag

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You can buy a plusbus ticket on a smartcard in some places in scotland & essex (https://www.plusbus.info/news ) and on the Key in brighton either through capping on key-go or just on the card itself, but it only works on Go-Ahead buses and compass so there would not be much benifit over the paper version.
Are you sure the plus Bus is enabled in Brighton as the Key is a Go-Ahead nbrand for Smartcards accross trains and buses. Neither GTR nor ScotRail use the RDG CBO system for their Smartcard products.
 
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Neither GTR nor ScotRail use the RDG CBO system for their Smartcard products.
I wonder if they are ever going to move over... Getting PlusBus onto smart and perhaps even more onto eTicket would transform it, I think. Too many people in the wrong place at the beginning of their journey to benefit from it at the moment. If I ruled the world every ticket (perhaps over some minimum distance to avoid large price increases) would have PlusBus - and other light rail or tram would be in it, where it isn't already. Imagine the improvements we could have to the bus network with a fraction of the money invested in the railways.
 

paul1609

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Are you sure the plus Bus is enabled in Brighton as the Key is a Go-Ahead nbrand for Smartcards accross trains and buses. Neither GTR nor ScotRail use the RDG CBO system for their Smartcard products.
There is a problem with GTRs TVMs loading pluscard tickets onto the key which they hope to resolve. Plusbus capping works in conjuction with key go on Goahead bus services in the south.

I wonder if they are ever going to move over... Getting PlusBus onto smart and perhaps even more onto eTicket would transform it, I think. Too many people in the wrong place at the beginning of their journey to benefit from it at the moment. If I ruled the world every ticket (perhaps over some minimum distance to avoid large price increases) would have PlusBus - and other light rail or tram would be in it, where it isn't already. Imagine the improvements we could have to the bus network with a fraction of the money invested in the railways.
Given the income generated it would probably make more sense to move the RDG keycards on to the GTR system. Its already GTR and Southeastern plus many of the bus services in the South.
 

Joshua_Harman

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I wonder if they are ever going to move over... Getting PlusBus onto smart and perhaps even more onto eTicket would transform it, I think. Too many people in the wrong place at the beginning of their journey to benefit from it at the moment. If I ruled the world every ticket (perhaps over some minimum distance to avoid large price increases) would have PlusBus - and other light rail or tram would be in it, where it isn't already. Imagine the improvements we could have to the bus network with a fraction of the money invested in the railways.
If they do it will be slow, ITSO is flawed and companies are slow to adopt it and thats before you include the co-operation of the buaband train companies.

I believe the cards do work technically with plusbus but ive yet to se a passenger use one, a lot of drivers however dont even know what plusbus is or what it covers so etm validation would help with passengers who regularly get turned away, but thats a different story altogether
 

Joshua_Harman

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I don’t think any TIS will issue one ticket with a Two Together Railcard discount.

If you did manage to get one (or booked two and only used one, for whatever reason), then I doubt any bus driver would challenge it.
You'll be lucky if you find a bus driver who actually knows what plusbus is
 

Argyle 1980

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If they do it will be slow, ITSO is flawed and companies are slow to adopt it and thats before you include the co-operation of the buaband train companies.

I believe the cards do work technically with plusbus but ive yet to se a passenger use one, a lot of drivers however dont even know what plusbus is or what it covers so etm validation would help with passengers who regularly get turned away, but thats a different story altogether
Don't know the scientific detail between standard QR codes and Aztec railway ones bit your point about potentially adding plus bus to Etickets and paper roll tickets could be feasible.
Most bus companies who use and scan QR tickets use Ticketer machines so maybe it's possible they also read the same Aztec code on a train ticket that has plus bus enabled on it. Or maybe a second eticket pdf delivered that has a QR code that Ticketer machines can read. I know Stagecoach is a stumbling block as they use older machines and don't scan or use QR codes. I know if you use a ticket issued by say Plymouth Citybus or Go Cornwall Bus on a Stagecoach service, you just show the driver. The same way in reverse if you had a skipper on a Stagecoach issued ticket that you'd just show the Citybus driver as there's no QR code. I'm told Citybus are unhappy about this but it's pretty much out of their hands as the ticket is controlled by the council. I know that Citybus Key cards and Stagecoach Smart cards both work fine on each others machines.
 

Joshua_Harman

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Don't know the scientific detail between standard QR codes and Aztec railway ones bit your point about potentially adding plus bus to Etickets and paper roll tickets could be feasible.
Most bus companies who use and scan QR tickets use Ticketer machines so maybe it's possible they also read the same Aztec code on a train ticket that has plus bus enabled on it. Or maybe a second eticket pdf delivered that has a QR code that Ticketer machines can read. I know Stagecoach is a stumbling block as they use older machines and don't scan or use QR codes. I know if you use a ticket issued by say Plymouth Citybus or Go Cornwall Bus on a Stagecoach service, you just show the driver. The same way in reverse if you had a skipper on a Stagecoach issued ticket that you'd just show the Citybus driver as there's no QR code. I'm told Citybus are unhappy about this but it's pretty much out of their hands as the ticket is controlled by the council. I know that Citybus Key cards and Stagecoach Smart cards both work fine on each others machines.
Yes, the same here in my city, the company I work for (Go Ahead) has a council ticket (Solent Go) which is joint with first and stagecoach around here, ITSO Is a specific set standard so our key cards, first touch cards stageocah smart cards and the Solent Smart card (all cards that can hold a Solent go) all work interchangeably, but the qr code readers are specific to each company and a qr code can only be decoded, read and validated by the company who issued it, on other companies it just rejects and sadly a lot of drivers just see the company name and turn individuals away assuming its a regular travel card,
so when people come on my bus with their mobile or paper solent go's they have to show it because it won't work. (Unless they brought it on a bluestar or unlink bus)
I advise people to get the cards but it's to complicated for the average layman, and stagecoach have eradicated part of this problem by issuing all weekly tickets onto a smart card, but the main reason why its all so complicated is because of the co-operation between the different companies, so I doubt that bus and rail will be making improvements to the plusbus scheme anytime soon :)
 

Joshua_Harman

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I've never had an issue in Oxford showing my orange plusbus paper ticket. Come to think of it, I've never had an issue anywhere.
A lot of drivers dont know the actual validity of plusbus, knowing that is it accepted as bus companies dont train drivers on rail tickets.
I've heard stories of people who have had many issues with it.
 

Alex365Dash

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You'll be lucky if you find a bus driver who actually knows what plusbus is
Used PlusBus many times both in Portsmouth (both First & Stagecoach), Havant and occasionally Fareham. Mostly waved on fine, sometimes there’s an awkward silence and I mention it’s a PlusBus ticket followed by being let on, but that’s the closest I’ve ever got to finding a bus driver who doesn’t know what a PlusBus is.
 

Argyle 1980

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Yes, the same here in my city, the company I work for (Go Ahead) has a council ticket (Solent Go) which is joint with first and stagecoach around here, ITSO Is a specific set standard so our key cards, first touch cards stageocah smart cards and the Solent Smart card (all cards that can hold a Solent go) all work interchangeably, but the qr code readers are specific to each company and a qr code can only be decoded, read and validated by the company who issued it, on other companies it just rejects and sadly a lot of drivers just see the company name and turn individuals away assuming its a regular travel card,
so when people come on my bus with their mobile or paper solent go's they have to show it because it won't work. (Unless they brought it on a bluestar or unlink bus)
I advise people to get the cards but it's to complicated for the average layman, and stagecoach have eradicated part of this problem by issuing all weekly tickets onto a smart card, but the main reason why its all so complicated is because of the co-operation between the different companies, so I doubt that bus and rail will be making improvements to the plusbus scheme anytime soon :)
Don't Stagecoach driver's actually issue smartcards on the spot when buying a ticket? Where as Go Ahead companies like Transport for Cornwall/Citybus/Bluestar will only issue them online to be posted out or from a travel shop? So it makes more sense logically for somebody to try and buy their ticket off a stagecoach vehicle. I know the weekly version of the Plymouth skipper can only be brought on a smartcard so effectively Transport for Cornwall/Citybus cannot sell these to new customers on the bus, where as Stagecoach obviously can which seems very daft on Go Ahead's part.
 
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