Two trackworkers killed near Port Talbot in South Wales (03/07/19)

[mallard]

The BBC are now running a story entitled "Rail safety investigators warned of 'too many near misses'" in relation to this incident.

Rail investigator Simon French said the risk to workers had fallen since the organisation was created 13 years ago.

But, in the RAIB report, he said: "I am concerned that, despite much effort and many initiatives, we are not seeing the hoped-for improvements in safety for track workers.

"Every near miss, however caused, should be viewed as a failure of the system to deliver safety."

While I personally tend not to put much stock into such stories (with any significant event, you can likely find somebody who made prescient-sounding "warning"; it's the stopped-clock principle), but in this case, as somebody who follows RAIB investigations out of technical interest, I have noticed that there have been several investigations into near misses with track workers in recent months (Peterborough, Sundon, South Hampstead, etc.), so perhaps there are safety lessons that are not being learned. We will have to see how the investigation pans out. My condolences to all involved and affected.

 

[Peter C]

The BBC are now running a story entitled "Rail safety investigators warned of 'too many near misses'" in relation to this incident.

While I personally tend not to put much stock into such stories (with any significant event, you can likely find somebody who made prescient-sounding "warning"; it's the stopped-clock principle), but in this case, as somebody who follows RAIB investigations out of technical interest, I have noticed that there have been several investigations into near misses with track workers in recent months (Peterborough, Sundon, South Hampstead, etc.), so perhaps there are safety lessons that are not being learned. We will have to see how the investigation pans out. My condolences to all involved and affected.

It is very sad that near misses have been happening for months and then no-one has done anything. As much as I hate to say it, it was almost as if the incident today was a way of the gods telling us to be careful.

so perhaps there are safety lessons that are not being learned

I think that safety lessons are just being ignored. Near misses happen too often. They happen too often because they do happen. They shouldn't be a thing. Not with the technology and safety we have now.

-Peter

 

[hobbm013]

BBC reporting the workers were wearing ear defenders and couldn’t hear an approaching train, information from BTP

 

[gavin]

BTP update

Two railway workers aged 58 and 64 who died when they were struck by a passenger train near Port Talbot were wearing ear defenders and could not hear it approaching, British Transport Police said

https://twitter.com/PA/status/1146458067585949696

 

[krus_aragon]

The BBC are now running a story entitled "Rail safety investigators warned of 'too many near misses'" in relation to this incident.

While I personally tend not to put much stock into such stories (with any significant event, you can likely find somebody who made prescient-sounding "warning"; it's the stopped-clock principle), but in this case, as somebody who follows RAIB investigations out of technical interest, I have noticed that there have been several investigations into near misses with track workers in recent months (Peterborough, Sundon, South Hampstead, etc.), so perhaps there are safety lessons that are not being learned. We will have to see how the investigation pans out. My condolences to all involved and affected.

The Peterborough report (which I read recently) lists "19 previous accidents and incidents, including three fatal accidents, which the RAIB has investigated since it became operational in 2005, where it was planned that the staff involved would use the lookout warning safe system of work" (which may or not be the case in this incident). Seven of them cover the period 2014-2017. There may be something in what you're saying.

 

[SilentGrade]

Awful awful news. The number of near misses we’ve seen recently have perhaps shown that something fundamentally isn’t working, whether that be people, processes or whatever.

 

[Parallel]

Very tragic. Thoughts with the families of the deceased, the injured party, the driver and anyone else involved.

 

[king_walnut]

BTP update



https://twitter.com/PA/status/1146458067585949696

That tweet isn't from the BTP so I'd question it to be honest.

It's a basic PTS rule that you do not wear anything that could impair your hearing when working on or near a line that hasn't been blocked.

 

[CJK64]

That tweet isn't from the BTP so I'd question it to be honest.

It's a basic PTS rule that you do not wear anything that could impair your hearing when working on or near a line that hasn't been blocked.

Not entirely true but certainly advised. You can wear ear defenders but you have to have a touch lookout. WHich is a lookout that stands next to you and taps you on the shoulder as a way of warning as opposed to a horn or verbal warning.

 

[Peter C]

It's a basic PTS rule that you do not wear anything that could impair your hearing when working on or near a line that hasn't been blocked.

That's what confuses me.

-Peter

 

[Darandio]

That tweet isn't from the BTP so I'd question it to be honest.

It's a basic PTS rule that you do not wear anything that could impair your hearing when working on or near a line that hasn't been blocked.

No need to question it, it's quoted from the BTP news page.

 

[SilentGrade]

It's a basic PTS rule that you do not wear anything that could impair your hearing when working on or near a line that hasn't been blocked.

Please re-read your rule book and specifically the sections concerning touch lookouts

 

[krus_aragon]

That tweet isn't from the BTP so I'd question it to be honest.

It's a basic PTS rule that you do not wear anything that could impair your hearing when working on or near a line that hasn't been blocked.

No need to question it, it's quoted from the BTP news page.

Specifically, here.

“Following a number of urgent enquiries into this tragic incident, it has been established that the three people were railway workers who were working on the lines at the time.

“The initial stages of the investigation suggest that the two men who died had been wearing ear defenders at the time, tragically, could not hear the a passenger train approaching.

I am drawing some conclusions from what has been released to the press, but I'm very much aware that it won't be the whole picture, so I'll hold my tongue as to what they are.

 

[O L Leigh]

There's no question that it's a dark day for the railways. All of us who work on the rails are aware that we do so in the clear and present danger of death, which is why the safety culture is as it is. Clearly something went very badly wrong today, which the RAIB will get to the bottom of. Until then, anything that gets posted about cause is merely speculation.

 

[PHILIPE]

The train has now left the site at 1820 as 5L48 Margam Moors to Paddington

 

[Peter C]

The train has now left the site at 1820 as 5L48 Margam Moors to Paddington

Strange that it's going into Paddington. I would have thought North Pole Depot would have been more suitable.

-Peter

 

[rdeez]

Horrible incident. I feel for their families. I think though it is testament to how much safety has been improved over time that incidents like these are rare enough to provoke headline news and genuine shock - but there will always be more to do.

 

[Peter C]

Horrible incident. I feel for their families. I think though it is testament to how much safety has been improved over time that incidents like these are rare enough to provoke headline news and genuine shock - but there will always be more to do.

Exactly. I hope that everyone involved receives counselling as appropriate.

-Peter

 

[Eric]

Just seen this horrible news. RIP to everyone involved in this tragic accident.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Strange that it's going into Paddington. I would have thought North Pole Depot would have been more suitable.

-Peter

Paddington, then North Pole, it’s two five cars so the Driver can’t walk through and change ends, there may not be a suitable place to stop and walk up the cess or it maybe they don’t want the line blocked for that length of time.

 

[PHILIPE]

Strange that it's going into Paddington. I would have thought North Pole Depot would have been more suitable.

-Peter

It will probably have to be planned later when there is a path and driver available. If it gets to Paddington it will be on the doorstep.

 

[diffident]

Just to flesh out what was said on ITV news by the reporter live at the scene... He said that there was "...no speed restrictions on the line this morning, and investigators are looking at the accuracy of information given to the railway workers about train movements."

The report is on the ITV catch up service, 8 minutes into the ITV evening news.

 

[Rockhopper]

I saw a Network Rail YouTube video a while back that said you’d have four seconds audible warning of an HST approaching you at speed and thats assuming you have normal hearing. If you’ve got power tools running etc then obviously it’s going to be even less. The fact these guys were wearing ear defenders might not have made any difference.

 

[Saperstein]

Just to flesh out what was said on ITV news by the report live at the scene... He said that there was "...no speed restrictions on the line this morning, and investigators are looking at the accuracy of information given to the railway workers about train movements."

The report is on the ITV catch up service, 8 minutes into the ITV evening news.

Sounds more or less similar to the report on Wales at Six tonight then (ITV HTV Wales).

They also mentioned medics had come to the scene from the adjacent steelworks and even featured a clip filmed inside the train by one of the passengers, and one passenger interviewed described what he had seen which I will not repeat here.

All in all I found the coverage largely distasteful, but that’s what the media’s like I’m sorry to say.

Saperstein

 

[Peter C]

Paddington, then North Pole, it’s two five cars so the Driver can’t walk through and change ends, there may not be a suitable place to stop and walk up the cess or it maybe they don’t want the line blocked for that length of time.

It will probably have to be planned later when there is a path and driver available. If it gets to Paddington it will be on the doorstep.

OK. Thanks. Without going into detail, I would have thought that GWR wouldn't have wanted the unit on display.

-Peter


EDIT: Having seen the media coverage, it looked like one 9-car set. Not two 5-cars.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

EDIT: Having seen the media coverage, it looked like one 9-car set. Not two 5-cars.

Incorrect, it was a 10-car set, comprised of 2x800 units.

 

[Peter C]

Incorrect, it was a 10-car set, comprised of 2x800 units.

Oh sorry. From the media images it looked like one 9-car unit. Apologies.

-Peter

 

[alxndr]

I saw a Network Rail YouTube video a while back that said you’d have four seconds audible warning of an HST approaching you at speed and thats assuming you have normal hearing. If you’ve got power tools running etc then obviously it’s going to be even less. The fact these guys were wearing ear defenders might not have made any difference.

With normal hearing and a quiet background it is still perfectly possible for you not to hear an IET approaching. They are far quieter than HSTs were, even running on diesel power.

That said, it should never get to the point of having to hear an approaching train to know to stand clear.

 

[Peter C]

With normal hearing and a quiet background it is still perfectly possible for you not to hear an IET approaching. They are far quieter than HSTs were, even running on diesel power.

That said, it should never get to the point of having to hear an approaching train to know to stand clear.

I saw an old BR video saying the same 4-second timing.
The workers who were involved may never have heard the train.
-Peter

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Oh sorry. From the media images it looked like one 9-car unit. Apologies.

-Peter

Sorry for my tone in that post, I seemed quite rude!