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Tyne and Wear Metro Future

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WatcherZero

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Basically to sum up, infrastructure has just been renewed and trains refurbished but they will only last another 10 years, opportunity to draw up growth plan and 7 routes have been conceived. Aim is to grow ridership from 45m to 60m over the next 15 years, which seems quite modest.

Sunderland to Seaham
This would take the form of an extension of the ‘joint running’ arrangements currently used between Pelaw and Sunderland. Up to three additional on-track stations could be provided. The proposal would be dependent upon predicted customer demand, future line capacity and any decisions by Network Rail about future electrification.

Sunderland (South Hylton) - Washington - Pelaw
With a population of around 55,000 Washington is one of the largest areas in Tyne and Wear without access to Metro and there have been regular requests received for the situation to be reviewed. A potential solution involves use of sections of the disused Leamside rail corridor south of Pelaw and the former Sunderland to Durham rail line west of South Hylton with a connecting spur, and a diversion westwards into the Galleries town centre area. This corridor could enable the introduction of a circular route connecting Pelaw, Washington, South Hylton, Sunderland and East Boldon and Pelaw in both directions.

Cobalt Link
This route could connect both arms of the North Tyneside Metro loop running from Howdon/Percy
Main to Northumberland Park and serving the Tyne Tunnel Trading Estate, Silverlink and Cobalt
Business Park destinations en route. The route would link this corridor of employment, retail, leisure and housing activity to Metro destinations across Tyne and Wear potentially through the operation of an ‘inner circle’ service linking the Wallsend, Cobalt and Benton areas in either direction.

The corridor’s proximity to the southern end of the Blyth and Tyne route offers possible links with planned rail services to and from the Ashington, Bedlington and Blyth areas.

Metrocentre and Team Valley (Street Running)
Potential on-street Metro operations connecting Gateshead town centre with the Metrocentre/Metrogreen and Team Valley areas have been identified. These would share roads with other vehicles as currently occurs in the Manchester, Sheffield and Nottingham areas. Metro services to and from these major employment and shopping destinations would extend the reach of Metro to areas hitherto unserved and help to relieve congestion on the surrounding road network. On-street stops could be introduced along these routes, similar to those used on the Manchester Metrolink network and elsewhere. There is the potential for cross-river on-street Metro links to west Newcastle or Newcastle city centre via a new bridge near the Metrocentre, or shared use of one of the existing bridges in the NewcastleGateshead area. More detailed work is under way in early-2014 to scope out in greater detail what options may be technically feasible.

West Newcastle (Street Running)
West Newcastle is one of the most densely populated areas of Tyne and Wear, but has not yet benefited from the advantages of Metro in the same way as other areas of the city. A corridor with potentially high levels of demand runs from the city centre westwards to the A69 area, via the A186 West Road or alternative road corridors. This would run on-street and would ideally form part of a complementary NewcastleGateshead Metro street tram operation linking to and from the Metrocentre and Team Valley areas, depending upon the feasibility of cross-Tyne operations.

South Shields to Doxford Park via Sunderland city centre (Street Running)
The potential of street-running Metro operations could also be employed across areas of South Tyneside and Sunderland that are not served by existing Metro services. A corridor extending north from Sunderland city centre to South Shields via Monkwearmouth and Cleadon, and westwards to
Doxford Park and Doxford International would provide light rail links to the major employment centre next to the A19 as well as providing direct Metro services between Sunderland and South Shields.

Further investigation and assessment of the options above will be undertaken as appropriate, taking Strategy consultees’ views into account, to determine which (if any) should be taken forward to the stage of full business case preparation once their justification in demand and feasibility terms has
been established in greater detail.

Passenger Predictions

Sunderland to Seaham 5.011m
Pelaw to South Hylton via Washington 3.954m
Cobalt Link 1.214m
Metrocentre 11.276m
Team Valley 4.220m
West Newcastle 13.600m
South Shields to Sunderland to Doxford Park 5.444m

Alternative strategy would be Metro expansion with tram-train routes to Durham and Northumberland, Ponteland.

As to fleet specification its not very specific saying only the existing fleet is obsolete technologically, energy inefficent and cannot be modernised to provide the latest passenger comforts. The future type of use will play a major role in the selection of rolling stock but they would like whatever used to share the same visual style and be instantly recognisable as T&WM.
(the mocked up future rolling stock shot looks to be an Alstom Citadis tram)
 
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ModernRailways

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Page 46 shows a route map with proposed new routes.

K8a8xVm.jpg
 

AndrewP

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When they do upgrade the trains could the potential for 25kv or dual voltage be considered?

This would allow links to the NR lines in the area and possibly be lower cost than totally new lines without compromising NR operations and may even promote them.

Also working with Durham, Cleveland and Northumberland would make sense with some of the local trains from Central Station becoming metro services.

Street tracks as metro in name alone but in reality a totally different system.

If T Dan Smith was around I think he'd want direct connection with HS2 :D
 

transmanche

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The map shows considerable strengthening to the southern part of the network.
Indeed: Doxford Park, Team Valley and Washington - all large centres of employment. (As is Cobalt on North Tyneside).

But we've seen grand plans for Metro extensions (including street running) come to nothing before: "Project Orpheus"...
 

snowball

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I don't know Tyneside very well but two thoughts spring to mind:

1. No mention of my personal favourite extension, from the airport to Ponteland and Darras Hall. I assume that's too difficult politically, being across the border into Northumberland.

2. Talk of on-street running but is it currently (sorry) legal with a 1500V power supply? I thought 750V was the maximum allowed.
 

transmanche

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1. No mention of my personal favourite extension, from the airport to Ponteland and Darras Hall. I assume that's too difficult politically, being across the border into Northumberland.
It might be easier now that the NE councils (except the Tees Valley ones) have had approval to form a combined authority.

2. Talk of on-street running but is it currently (sorry) legal with a 1500V power supply? I thought 750V was the maximum allowed.
Would be fairly trivial in the scheme of things to have dual-voltage stock - which changes voltage on the move.
 

HST Power

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No mention of my personal favourite extension, from the airport to Ponteland and Darras Hall. I assume that's too difficult politically, being across the border into Northumberland.

Snap.

They should definitely consider that. It might be a bit tricky to build from the Airport, perhaps the extension could branch off from Callerton Parkway? I don't know how they'd do it, but I think there's a market nonetheless.
 

edwin_m

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I think Ponteland was mentioned in the linked document as a longer term possibility but didn't get onto the map.

1500V probably wouldn't be allowed in the street. The street running extension options, while branded as Metro and presumably with through ticketing etc, would be operationally separate and needn't be compatible technically.
 

34D

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I think Ponteland was mentioned in the linked document as a longer term possibility but didn't get onto the map.

1500V probably wouldn't be allowed in the street. The street running extension options, while branded as Metro and presumably with through ticketing etc, would be operationally separate and needn't be compatible technically.

Not necessarily - or is it stated as such in the document?

Let's not forget that tram train trials are progressing elsewhere, so a dual/tri voltage vehicle that can meet crashworthiness standards for both main line and on-street isn't an issue.
 

ModernRailways

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A Nexus Spokesperson said:

"Yes."

I think having dual/tri voltage would be brilliant. It means that Network Rail could electrify the Durham Coast Line to National Rail standards, meaning electric trains to/from Middlesbrough, and also allows freight to be electric hauled.

Dual/tri voltage would also open a lot more possibilities for Metro too, for example a Metro could run from Gateshead - Bensham - Team Valley - Dunston where it would join onto National Rail metals and continue calling Metrocentre - Blaydon, before diverging off to go underground and call at Ryton. Trains could then terminate at Ryton, or a tunnel/bridge be built across the tyne for trains to then call at Walbottle - Lemington - Whickham View - West Road for Fenham - Arthurs Hill - St James where trains would alternate, some would terminate at St James and return to Gateshead, others would run around to The Coast and terminate (Tynemouth?).
 

AndrewP

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I think having dual/tri voltage would be brilliant. It means that Network Rail could electrify the Durham Coast Line to National Rail standards, meaning electric trains to/from Middlesbrough, and also allows freight to be electric hauled.

Dual/tri voltage would also open a lot more possibilities for Metro too, for example a Metro could run from Gateshead - Bensham - Team Valley - Dunston where it would join onto National Rail metals and continue calling Metrocentre - Blaydon, before diverging off to go underground and call at Ryton. Trains could then terminate at Ryton, or a tunnel/bridge be built across the tyne for trains to then call at Walbottle - Lemington - Whickham View - West Road for Fenham - Arthurs Hill - St James where trains would alternate, some would terminate at St James and return to Gateshead, others would run around to The Coast and terminate (Tynemouth?).

Exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of.
 

TheKnightWho

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So by the look of things, Metro trains calling at Central Station will use the old disused siding that used to comprise the start of the north Newcastle-Carlisle route to continue westwards? No hope of them continuing the St James tunnel westwards as well, then? Or will they surface it out and merge it into the route coming from Central Station somehow?

Does the "inner circle" plan mean they're buying the old north-south link at the start of the Blyth and Tyne back off the Stephenson Museum? And no hope of getting the Riverside Loop back again as well?
 
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Clip

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Looking at that map and wondering what route they would take from Elswick up to the General Hospital and the same for the extension up from Scotswood too.
 

mildertduck

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Given that the Metrocentre / Denton / Team Valley line is described as street running, it sounds like they'll be wanting to put a platform on the already-busy Neville St - where better than the portico of the existing station... oh, hang on, they've just blocked it up...

Actually, I'm not sure there's a "Central Station" interchange at all on that tram line..., there's certainly no black dot on it...
 

TheKnightWho

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Given that the Metrocentre / Denton / Team Valley line is described as street running, it sounds like they'll be wanting to put a platform on the already-busy Neville St - where better than the portico of the existing station... oh, hang on, they've just blocked it up...

Actually, I'm not sure there's a "Central Station" interchange at all on that tram line..., there's certainly no black dot on it...

There isn't a black dot at Pelaw or Nothumberland Park, but it'd be odd for them not to call there. It'd be very weird to not serve Central Station even if it passed near/under it.

This map shows how things stand currently. I'm guessing there'll be street running along Scotswood Road to the west, which is currently built on the old line north of the Tyne through Elswick et al. This would be relatively easy to link to the current extended siding that was the start of that line and through Central Station. Connecting the extension to the current St James station further north would require expensive tunneling, but it'd be for only around a mile or so.

How things intend to work to the south I don't know. I'm not sure why they have the extension joining at Gateshead, as it seems it would require a new Tyne crossing to join with the current infrastructure, as I'm not sure you could create a feasible tunnel between Gateshead and the Durham Coast Line so that you could get over the High Level Bridge and into Central Station from the east without a ridiculous cost. Much better to join at Gateshead Stadium and just follow the existing line, surely? There'd still be a place for a Gateshead Quays stadium just where the line curves from south to west facing before it joins the bridge.
 

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Jonny

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Another issue for the Washington-Sunderland link would be that the old alignments converge into Penshaw (see https://sites.google.com/site/waggonways/nz/30/nz3055 ) and there would either have to be a reversing facility or a new alignment that misses out Penshaw Village with the resultant loss of custom. Otherwise, it seems like a good idea.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Given that the Metrocentre / Denton / Team Valley line is described as street running, it sounds like they'll be wanting to put a platform on the already-busy Neville St - where better than the portico of the existing station... oh, hang on, they've just blocked it up...

Actually, I'm not sure there's a "Central Station" interchange at all on that tram line..., there's certainly no black dot on it...

I think they've just missed the black dots out by mistake.
 

edwin_m

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They probably haven't put any dots because people would assume that there were stations planned only where the dots were.
 

SGS

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I think having dual/tri voltage would be brilliant.

It would, but I wonder whether the rolling stock (which would have to be small, to Metro tunnel dimensions) would be able to accommodate all the extra equipment required?
 

transmanche

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It would, but I wonder whether the rolling stock (which would have to be small, to Metro tunnel dimensions) would be able to accommodate all the extra equipment required?
Metro tunnels have a diameter of 4.75m. That's about the same size as the tunnels on the Northern City Line, where full-size dual-voltage Class 313s fit quite comfortably.
 

Clip

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This map shows how things stand currently. I'm guessing there'll be street running along Scotswood Road to the west, which is currently built on the old line north of the Tyne through Elswick et al. This would be relatively easy to link to the current extended siding that was the start of that line and through Central Station. Connecting the extension to the current St James station further north would require expensive tunneling, but it'd be for only around a mile or so.

.

I get that but again how is it going to get from there up to the General? Some pretty steep hills round there.
 

SGS

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Metro tunnels have a diameter of 4.75m. That's about the same size as the tunnels on the Northern City Line, where full-size dual-voltage Class 313s fit quite comfortably.

But there's no overhead down there!
 

transmanche

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This map shows how things stand currently. I'm guessing there'll be street running along Scotswood Road to the west, which is currently built on the old line north of the Tyne through Elswick et al.
I believe the old line ran south of Scotswood Rd (through what is now Newcastle Business Park) and crossed over it approximately where the junction with Whitehouse Rd is today. That section north of Scotswood Rd is used today as a footpath/cyclepath (NCN72) - although the formation has been broken in two by the A1 western bypass.

There may be room for tram tracks between the Business Park and Scotswood Rd though.
 

Tetchytyke

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But we've seen grand plans for Metro extensions (including street running) come to nothing before: "Project Orpheus"...

I was going to say this is little more than a re-hash of Project Orpheus, with about as much chance of ever coming to fruition. That had the idea of trams down the West Road too.

I would imagine that they'd have combined rolling stock for the Metro and Tram sections. This isn't an obstacle at all, Brussels has the Premetro and it works well, something like the Bombardier Flexity would do the job perfectly. The only slight issue would be combining tram overhead wires with 25kV heavy rail wires.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I believe the old line ran south of Scotswood Rd (through what is now Newcastle Business Park) and crossed over it approximately where the junction with Whitehouse Rd is today.

Correct. The trackbed is still in situ as far as the Business Park, but the Business Park was built over it. The Scotswood Road used to dive under the track at Paradise (yes, that junction is really called that) and the trackbed is again in situ all the way to Wylam, apart from a brief gap where the A1 Western Bypass is.

You'd have to say it was a mistake to not protect the trackbed after Stella Power Station closed, but hey.

I would actually imagine the street running to be on the West Road, probably going from St James up Stanhope Street. The document says that they want street running on the West Road, just like they did with Project Orpheus.

What happens to the General Hospital site will be interesting, as I think it is still the intention to eventually sell off the land for housing and commercial use. If they can get some transport improvement money out of the developers, who knows...
 
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