Tyne and Wear Metro - industrial action (overtime ban)

[jkkne]

Im not quite sure how Tyneside will cope considering this is a match day and Black Eye Friday. Newcastle’s road network barely copes now on match days and peak days.

Local bus services are hit and miss and certainly lengthier (at least 30 minutes longer in places). I doubt there’s capacity to increase services to double deck especially with schools still in. They certainly won’t be able to support all capacity from the Metro.

the action is certainly biting. There were delays of an hour tonight. Be interesting to see which side public opinion starts to fall on. The RMT are doing an awful job of giving a narrative, if it wasn’t for this thread I’d only have seen Nexus side of events.

 

[DanNCL]

Im not quite sure how Tyneside will cope considering this is a match day and Black Eye Friday. Newcastle’s road network barely copes now on match days and peak days.

Local bus services are hit and miss and certainly lengthier (at least 30 minutes longer in places). I doubt there’s capacity to increase services to double deck especially with schools still in. They certainly won’t be able to support all capacity from the Metro.

the action is certainly biting. There were delays of an hour tonight. Be interesting to see which side public opinion starts to fall on. The RMT are doing an awful job of giving a narrative, if it wasn’t for this thread I’d only have seen Nexus side of events.

Newcastle and Gateshead will be gridlocked. Buses even to/from areas not on the metro network will be havoc with the roads being so busy. I had planned to go out on one of the strike days but thanks to the strike I'm now staying at home as it'll most likely just take way too long to get anywhere with the Metro being off. I'm sure many other people will probably take the same decision.

 

[Paul_10]

From what I remember when the last time metro drivers went on a full strike(early 2000s), there was full on chaos with heavy traffic all over.

Just can't help but feel really saddened at the complete mess since the system got privatised and the last 4 years especially has been very poor with only slight gains in performance. Just when you think things can't get worse, they sure can. I do hope the strike will be cancelled but I can't see anyone budging in this really.

 

[14xxDave]

I really didn't wish to dig into this one but the numbers just didn't stack up both here and in the press. I understand that such negotiations are private but the snippets that have been released have made me more curious.

So some maths.

TWM driver current pay (Newcastle Chronicle) £37985......this is basic without overtime, working rest days etc.
Nexus claim of 15% pay increase..if applied in one go then that would be £43682

So where has the 15% come from?

It now appears that Nexus have said the final figure will be achieved in 2022 so....

3% per year
Year 0 39124
Year 1 40298
Year 2 41507
Year 3 42752

5% per year
Year 0 39884
Year 1 41878
Year 2 43971
Year 3 46169

Nexus also indicated the offer included the yearly cost of living award?

Just my musings on the maths take it whichever way you will.

 

[507 001]

Dumb question from the cheap seats here...
These people are instructors. They were being paid to instruct only when instructing.
They wanted to get paid an instructor's rate at all times. They want to not instruct.
Isn't part of being paid for a specific role actually doing that role? That looks like trying to have it both ways?

I’m an instructor. I get paid the instructors rate even when I’m on my own with no trainee. It’s better for me, because I get paid more, and it’s better for the company. If I’m needed to instruct, or refresh or whatever they can expect me to do so at short notice without refusing.

What's wrong with any of that? The "big event days" are what we all know- GNR day, Sunderland Airshow weekend, the Saturdat before Christmas. That clause is there because of the embarrassment caused in May when all the drivers decided to stop at home during the Rugby Champions Cup weekend.

It's there for predictable big events, to stop the annual blackmail at GNR time.

Metro doesn't operate Christmas Day or New Year's Day and there is no indication that is likely to change any time soon.

As for 12 weeks' notice, that is standard for staff in the public sector who are on pay scales high enough to merit a £46k pay packet. So- again- so what?



Comparing to other public sector staff with similar responsibilities- nurses, for instance- is entirely fair. These people wanted to be in the public sector, they got what they wanted. There are cons to that as well as pros.

The drivers earn more than my wife, who is doing a specialist job in the NHS which required her to obtain a doctorate- at her own expense- in order to practice. So please spare me the lecture about how terribly terribly awful a pay deal of £46,000 a year is.

As for 15% being "3% a year", how do you work that out? It's 5%- minimum- and 5% is a pay deal every single other person working for a local authority in the north east- or even in the public sector more generally- would bite your arm off for.

Metro doesn't pay it's way, it is heavily subsidised, and it is subsidised by council tax payers earning a damn sight less than the drivers- the average wage up here is HALF of what the drivers were offered. The idea that being paid double the regional average wage is a "race to the bottom" is, quite frankly, laughable. The coppers you expect to come and deal with the ASB get paid £24,000!

Remember that when you're trying to claim you're hard done by.

Good lord.

 

[bluegoblin7]

I’m an instructor. I get paid the instructors rate even when I’m on my own with no trainee. It’s better for me, because I get paid more, and it’s better for the company. If I’m needed to instruct, or refresh or whatever they can expect me to do so at short notice without refusing.

+1 to this. It’s how it’s done across London Underground, which is very much comparable to the Metro.

 

[14xxDave]

+1 to this. It’s how it’s done across London Underground, which is very much comparable to the Metro.

I think the issue is not with making it a permanent grade but with the fact that the drivers have been asking for this for a long time and Nexus have refused. Only when the threat of working to rule appeared did the post suddenly become a permanent one but I assume you would have to apply for it.

Now the guys and ladies who are drivers are not unintelligent and could see where this ruse was going.....

 

[507 001]

I think the issue is not with making it a permanent grade but with the fact that the drivers have been asking for this for a long time and Nexus have refused. Only when the threat of working to rule appeared did the post suddenly become a permanent one but I assume you would have to apply for it.

Now the guys and ladies who are drivers are not unintelligent and could see where this ruse was going.....

Do we know how many Drivers are considered to be instructor competent?
We have 20 for a contingent of 450 drivers.

 

[14xxDave]

Do we know how many Drivers are considered to be instructor competent?
We have 20 for a contingent of 450 drivers.

No idea but from up thread there are around 170 drivers......

 

[jkkne]

Aside a few long bus queues yesterday, Tyneside seems to have survived the strike on its busiest weekend.

looking at social media and from speaking to folk at work, Go North East seem to be the winners. I’m certainly tempted to switch to the bus along with many others. Metro just isn’t reliable anymore and the alternative of the bus...it’s actually better.

It was actually quite relaxing not playing metro roulette on my commute. Far less stressful, live app tracking, mobile ticketing and no excuses. It would be interesting if bus companies started to restore routes that ended after metros introduction.

 

[MetroCar4058]

I genuinely believe Metro is in deep danger. I’ve seen first hand the incompetence of the company at all levels with a lack of understanding of the issues facing the system.

I think the approach is based on the view that Metro is too big to fail and the new trains are the sacred cow for the system. There is simply no drive to deal with issues facing the system, because the new trains will of course fix it all. The system was better off being ran by a company with railway experience.

The company really needs to focus on rebuilding the confidence of the staff who are essential in making the system a success. The brand image is in tatters and that’s something the new rolling stock will help, however they need to focus on the holistic passenger experience. I love reflecting on the forecast passenger numbers used in the rail strategy.

 

[Graeme]

According to reports on BBC News this morning, there's a further strike planned for 6th/7th January 2020 - so a Monday and Tuesday to affect commuters coming back to work after the Christmas/New Year holidays?

 

[cosmo]

According to reports on BBC News this morning, there's a further strike planned for 6th/7th January 2020 - so a Monday and Tuesday to affect commuters coming back to work after the Christmas/New Year holidays?

Confirmed by Nexus:

https://twitter.com/My_Metro/status/1209431952937410560

 

[transmanche]

According to reports on BBC News this morning, there's a further strike planned for 6th/7th January 2020 - so a Monday and Tuesday to affect commuters coming back to work after the Christmas/New Year holidays?

They also quoted RMT regional organiser, Mickey Thompson, as saying:

The only option available to us is to withdraw our labour, our only option to get them back to the table is to hit them as hard as we can.

That won't go down well with the travelling public.

 

[notadriver]

My take on this is : where is the money going to come from ? Tyne and Wear metro just like Manchester metrolink caters for relatively cheap short distance journeys. The wages seem to reflect the fares. A TOC such as northern or cross country charge much higher prices.

One of the main advantages of tram/light rail is its cheaper to operate than a main line train service. Training can be shortened - to just 11 weeks in the case of Metrolink.

 

[transmanche]

One of the main advantages of tram/light rail is its cheaper to operate than a main line train service. Training can be shortened - to just 11 weeks in the case of Metrolink.

I think that might be overly simplistic. T&W Metro operate over their own (Nexus Rail) tracks and over Network Rail metals. Meaning the drivers not only have to learn their 'own' rulebook, but also have to learn all the different rules and procedures that apply on Network Rail infrastructure.

 

[railfan249]

I think that might be overly simplistic. T&W Metro operate over their own (Nexus Rail) tracks and over Network Rail metals. Meaning the drivers not only have to learn their 'own' rulebook, but also have to learn all the different rules and procedures that apply on Network Rail infrastructure.

Exactly which is part of the reason why training takes 6 months and not just 11 weeks.

 

[Malcmal]

Exactly which is part of the reason why training takes 6 months and not just 11 weeks.

Simple short term solution to this is to train drivers for 11 weeks to operate on Nexus lines only and schedule rosters accordingly. Over time this new intake can be trained up to work the Network Rail routes as well. Also has the advantage of not wasting time training for six months the ones who don't last the distance.

As for fixing the unions - I do love the solution Ronald Reagan had with the air traffic controllers in the 1980's:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...ollers_Organization_(1968)#August_1981_strike

Fire all strikers and start over. Short term pain for a long term result!

 

[Scott M]

If a driver is on shift, for their booked start time, it isn't their fault if the train they pick/set up is faulty. If theirs an infrastructure issue it's not their fault. Why should they be docked?

Agreed that is unfair, but if they are late through their own driving or being unable to correct a simple fault that they should be able to, then it is fair enough in my view.

But instead let's have a race to the bottom instead of everyone fighting for better wages why not fight so everyone can have the same low wages.

Same line that RMT always trots out, when the reality is they are just enjoying a race to the top, and sod the poor fools who get sacked due to being unable to commute to work because of it. If they get metro drivers their increased salary, they will be straight in the Northern drivers’ ears telling them “Hang on, Metro drivers are getting the same as you for easier work, time to strike..”

There's always going to be strings attached...

If they don’t like the strings fair enough, just don’t accept the increased pay.

Was commuting on a Crosscountry train week or so ago and there were a couple of XC drivers on the table opposite mine, as their own services had been cancelled. Couldn’t help eavesdropping on their convo and when the topic turned to metro strikes they were saying they disagreed with them wanting similar pay to network rail drivers. One said something along the lines of “No disrespect, but I probably know more miles in diversionary routes than they know all together”. They also made a good point that other tram operators may be looking at Metro as a case study of why it is a bad idea to share Network Rail infrastructure - as as soon as tram drivers receive the same training as a network rail driver, they start getting poached or want the same level of income.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Simple short term solution to this is to train drivers for 11 weeks to operate on Nexus lines only and schedule rosters accordingly. Over time this new intake can be trained up to work the Network Rail routes as well. Also has the advantage of not wasting time training for six months the ones who don't last the distance.

As for fixing the unions - I do love the solution Ronald Reagan had with the air traffic controllers in the 1980's:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...ollers_Organization_(1968)#August_1981_strike

Fire all strikers and start over. Short term pain for a long term result!

I don’t think Metro driver training ever took 11 weeks. It’s quite a complex system with the signalling and all of that. Drivers leave because the company stupidly doesn’t have a clause in the contracts to get their worth from them and of course TPE would prefer a half baked cake than having to do it from scratch.

 

[507 001]

I don’t think Metro driver training ever took 11 weeks. It’s quite a complex system with the signalling and all of that. Drivers leave because the company stupidly doesn’t have a clause in the contracts to get their worth from them and of course TPE would prefer a half baked cake than having to do it from scratch.

Our new fangled 11 week training course is only for one line. At the moment that is Bury to Altrincham, which means two different signalling systems and some street running.

I foresee it being lengthened again in the not too distant future...

 

[jkkne]

My take on this is : where is the money going to come from ? Tyne and Wear metro just like Manchester metrolink caters for relatively cheap short distance journeys. The wages seem to reflect the fares. A TOC such as northern or cross country charge much higher prices.

One of the main advantages of tram/light rail is its cheaper to operate than a main line train service. Training can be shortened - to just 11 weeks in the case of Metrolink.

metro isn’t cheap anymore (relative to the region). Another 3% increase in January. The bus by the large part is cheaper, more reliable, not much slower, safer and better equipped.

 

[jkkne]

https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/industrial-action-metro-called

Industrial action called off including overtime ban following productive talks. Detail in link

 

[Kryten2340]

Not the best choice of wording from The Chronicle

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/new...ed-new-17482489.amp?__twitter_impression=true

However, passengers will be pleased to hear that their journeys will no longer be disrupted.

 

[jkkne]

45 minute delays system wide tonight due to driver resourcing issues...

Well played Nexus.

 

[MetroCar4058]

45 minute delays system wide tonight due to driver resourcing issues...

Well played Nexus.

Can’t force people to do overtime though and the line closure requires more train drivers. Rugby probably hasn’t helped incentivise overtime.

 

[jkkne]

Can’t force people to do overtime though and the line closure requires more train drivers. Rugby probably hasn’t helped incentivise overtime.

rugby?! I think you’re overselling the interest on Tyneside. I imagine football more of an issue. They aren’t even running a full service today which is worse. Nexus again promising so much and delivering so little.

 

[MetroCar4058]

rugby?! I think you’re overselling the interest on Tyneside. I imagine football more of an issue. They aren’t even running a full service today which is worse. Nexus again promising so much and delivering so little.

Honestly, a lot of them do really like the rugby and I believe it’s a big weekend? (I haven’t a clue, don’t follow it) Nexus agreed a pay deal and training plan, I can’t see where all the extra drivers you expect have come from in a month?

Again, more drivers required than a normal Saturday today so it’s a perfect storm. Why not close off the whole coast loop for a bus replacement to solve the problem? Oh no, more moaning...

 

[jkkne]

A week of cancelled services (11 alone on Monday) continues into tomorrow with 2 full services and 3 peaks cancelled. That’s 19 services not running mainly tomorrow morning and no doubt further afternoon peaks will go.

Shambolic management strikes again and if I’m a driver I’m not getting out of bed in the snow with my new pay rise to help out this shower.